News Google Fiber Gaining 5 Gbps and 8 Gbps Internet Tiers in Early 2023

[jeremyj_83]

You're already backtracking and making compromises.



$600 for a 6 port vs sub $100 for a 24 port gb switch. SFP+ ports are a no go for almost all consumers. Copper SFP+ cable length limits mean the device has to be in the same room as the switch, or at most the room next to it if you can go straight through the wall. Anything longer and you are looking at fibre and at that point most people will be looking at professional installation to get it right.

I bought a Netgear XS505M in January 2020 for $350. While most of us were hoping that 10gb gear would drop in price as it became more ubiquitous. Almost 3 years later, and that switch is now selling for $426. Prices are moving in the wrong direction.

The connection from the modem to the switch might be SFP+ instead of RJ45 or have both. If it uses SFP+ for the out to the switch then you have 4x 10G-BaseT. My thing is most of these modems have garbage routers so your are best off getting your own router and I don't know if a consumer level router with 10Gb WAN much less LAN. That means you are relegated to doing a pfSense with the requisite NICs. DACs are usually only used for intra rack connections. You might be able to go from switch to switch on a rack directly next to the other.

 

[spongiemaster]

The connection from the modem to the switch might be SFP+ instead of RJ45 or have both. If it uses SFP+ for the out to the switch then you have 4x 10G-BaseT. My thing is most of these modems have garbage routers so your are best off getting your own router and I don't know if a consumer level router with 10Gb WAN much less LAN. That means you are relegated to doing a pfSense with the requisite NICs. DACs are usually only used for intra rack connections. You might be able to go from switch to switch on a rack directly next to the other.

We're talking about a home network set up to take advantage of 8gb internet. Rack to rack communication isn't going to be part of the equation. I'm not aware of any consumer modems that have SPF+ ports. They may exist, but they aren't going to be what your internet provider gives you so you would have to add the cost of a modem to your total bill as well. I own an Asus RT-AX89X router that has dual 10gb ports including an SPF+ port. I use the SPF+ port to connect to the Netgear switch in the same cabinet. I'm not sure if either 10gb port can be provisioned as a WAN port as my internet connection is only 1gb* (*not really, even theoretically). Even with that setup, what do you do with the 2nd SPF+ port on the switch? The per/port cost on these switches is too high to buying switches with ports you can't use.

 

[bit_user]

That is really cheap for a multiport 10GbE managed switch. For most people the 4x 10GbE RJ45s will be enough. I wonder if that is smart managed instead of fully managed. I know Netgear uses smart management as sort of entry level into managed switches.

True. I see they call it a "Smart" switch, which is a 3rd category that's separate from managed and unmanaged.

 

[USAFRet]

True. I see they call it a "Smart" switch, which is a 3rd category that's separate from managed and unmanaged.

To verify, which specific item do you refer to?

 

[bit_user]

You're already backtracking and making compromises.

What are you talking about? Backtracking and compromising from what?

$600 for a 6 port vs sub $100 for a 24 port gb switch. SFP+ ports are a no go for almost all consumers.

It looks like you're playing me for a foil against gigabit. All I did was object to the ridiculous notion that one needs $10k of equipment to take advantage of 5 or 8 Gbps internet service. That's it. Whatever else you're arguing against is in your head.

Copper SFP+ cable length limits mean the device has to be in the same room as the switch,

It's good for switch-to-switch links, pretty much within the same rack, and that's it. However, you can get a RJ-45 module, if you'd rather go to twisted-pair, or you can get an optical transponder to use fiber.

I bought a Netgear XS505M in January 2020 for $350. While most of us were hoping that 10gb gear would drop in price as it became more ubiquitous. Almost 3 years later, and that switch is now selling for $426. Prices are moving in the wrong direction.

I think we can't draw any conclusions about pricing, from the past 2.5 years. Hopefully, the recession will straighten out most of the supply chain problems, and then when energy prices return to some form of normalcy, we'll be positioned to asses progress relative to late-2019/early-2020.

 

[bit_user]

To verify, which specific item do you refer to?

My main point of interest is the Netgear MS510TXM, since my MS510TX seems to be discontinued. The information about unmanaged, smart, or "fully-managed" is from this page:

2.5 Gb & 5 Gb Gigabit Switches | NETGEAR

NETGEAR provides highly flexible and scalable full Multi Gigabit switches fit for every business need. Get more details about NETGEAR’s Unmanaged, Smart & Fully Managed Switches.

www.netgear.com

 

[USAFRet]

My main point of interest is the Netgear MS510TXM, since my MS510TX seems to be discontinued. The information about unmanaged, smart, or "fully-managed" is from this page:

2.5 Gb & 5 Gb Gigabit Switches | NETGEAR

NETGEAR provides highly flexible and scalable full Multi Gigabit switches fit for every business need. Get more details about NETGEAR’s Unmanaged, Smart & Fully Managed Switches.

www.netgear.com

OK.
I asked, because I might be interested in buying one or similar...

 

[bit_user]

Even with that setup, what do you do with the 2nd SPF+ port on the switch?

Aside from getting an RJ-45 transponder for it, you can buy SFP+ NICs and copper cables on ebay. That's what I did, a few years ago. I've read that you have to be careful with compatibility around the copper cables, BTW.

 

[USAFRet]

And a new faster switch would only be for internal data transfer.

My 100/100 from FiOS is not likely to change anytime this decade (unless they upgrade it for free). I have little need for a faster outside connection.

And for the "free" upgrade....that has been the case since I was at 25/25.
Every couple of years, upgrade, without me asking.
25/25 -> 50/50 -> 75/75 ...and currently, 100/100.
Same price.

 

[bit_user]

I asked, because I might be interested in buying one or similar...

FWIW, there are other sites with more coverage of high-speed networking products. STH periodically reviews multi-gigabit switches, such as mine or this cheap, unmanaged 2.5 Gbps switch:

The Ultimate Cheap 2.5GbE PoE Unmanaged Switch

In our Hasivo S1100P-8GT review, we find a PoE+ capable 2.5GbE switch that reaches price parity with Netgear 1GbE models, changing the market

www.servethehome.com

Their networking forum has some threads where you can find out about bargain, unmanaged options for 10 Gbps.

 

[spongiemaster]

What are you talking about? Backtracking and compromising from what?

The discussion was about the cost of a home network to fully utilize an 8gb internet connection. That's a 10gb network, not a 5gb network. If you're going to build a 5gb network, then get the 5gb internet option.

It looks like you're playing me for a foil against gigabit. All I did was object to the ridiculous notion that one needs $10k of equipment to take advantage of 5 or 8 Gbps internet service. That's it. Whatever else you're arguing against is in your head.

Naturally, if you're looking at costs, you're going to compare it to the cost of the incumbent industry standard. No one agrees with the original $10k+ estimate. I was responding to the guy that try to make it look like it would cost you less than $100. It's not going to be that either. Building a proper 10gb home network with a 10gb WAN connection is going to be surprisingly expensive for anyone used to gb LAN equipment costs.

I think we can't draw any conclusions about pricing, from the past 2.5 years. Hopefully, the recession will straighten out most of the supply chain problems, and then when energy prices return to some form of normalcy, we'll be positioned to asses progress relative to late-2019/early-2020.

Why hasn't gb equipment been effected by "supply chain problems?" Even with COVID excuses, 10gb equipment should have gone down over the last 3 years instead of going up. If you want to make supply chain excuses, then at worst it should be staying about the same which is the case with gb equipment.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Even with that setup, what do you do with the 2nd SPF+ port on the switch?

Could use it on a NAS that has SFP+ ports.

 

[PlaneInTheSky]

99.9% of households do not need more than 50Mbps internet

Many larger sites are 10MB in size nowadays. A 50Mbps connection would mean waiting almost 2 seconds before a site opens. If you have multiple people in the household online, just browsing becomes a laggy mess.

AAA games are 70GB+ nowadays, that's over 3 hours on a 50Mbps connection, do that for multiple games and you're spending days downloading.

Think before you write your idiocy. There is a reason people want faster internet than 50Mps.

 

[bit_user]

Why hasn't gb equipment been effected by "supply chain problems?" Even with COVID excuses, 10gb equipment should have gone down over the last 3 years instead of going up. If you want to make supply chain excuses, then at worst it should be staying about the same which is the case with gb equipment.

Not all products have been affected proportionately. I know that some Ethernet chips have been running in extremely short supply, to the extent that my employer faced a $100 surcharge for an Ethernet chip that should normally cost a couple $. Sadly, I don't have details on exactly which chip or how common a problem this is.

I will say that 1 gbps chips can be made on extremely old process nodes and possibly have larger inventory stockpiles, whereas multigigabit chips are much newer and likely designed for newer manufacturing process nodes that are in greater demand.

Here's are some relevant links, demonstrating this is a widespread problem:

• https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/how-cope-network-equipment-shortages
• https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20220705PD208/16nm-chip-shortage-network-chip.html
• https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles...t-adapter-shipments-as-demand-surges/2021/12/

 

[YouFilthyHippo]

Many larger sites are 10MB in size nowadays. A 50Mbps connection would mean waiting almost 2 seconds before a site opens. If you have multiple people in the household online, just browsing becomes a laggy mess.

AAA games are 70GB+ nowadays, that's over 3 hours on a 50Mbps connection, do that for multiple games and you're spending days downloading.

Think before you write your idiocy. There is a reason people want faster internet than 50Mps.

I happen to know for a fact that in 99.999999% of cases, 50-150 is fine depending on household. I moved into a place just 2 years ago that has 20Mbps shared among 3 people. It was fine. You could notice the little extra split second.... at most.... that websites will take to load. My brother has a 50 Mb connection. They have 4K streaming with 3 people in that house. One is streaming 4K Netflix, the others are browsing and/or watching YouTube. and/or gaming. No lag. It works fine. As far as AAA games go. It's a matter of patience. You can download a AAA game on dialup. You can download a AAA game on 10G fiber. In both cases, you're waiting. The sky is the limit with downloading. Keep in mind, you download a AAA game once, and it's there forever. It's on your hard drive. Are you buying scores of AAA games everyday and downloading them all onto a 400TB RAID farm? Keep in mind, I am talking about normal, average households. Go around the country, knock on the front door of 10,000 CONPLETELY RANDOM residential houses. Ask what they do with their internet on a daily basis. I bet 200 of them will need more than 50Mbps and 5 of them will need more than 150Mbps.

 

[jeremyj_83]

I happen to know for a fact that in 99.999999% of cases, 50-150 is fine depending on household. I moved into a place just 2 years ago that has 20Mbps shared among 3 people. It was fine. You could notice the little extra split second.... at most.... that websites will take to load. My brother has a 50 Mb connection. They have 4K streaming with 3 people in that house. One is streaming 4K Netflix, the others are browsing and/or watching YouTube. and/or gaming. No lag. It works fine. As far as AAA games go. It's a matter of patience. You can download a AAA game on dialup. You can download a AAA game on 10G fiber. In both cases, you're waiting. The sky is the limit with downloading. Keep in mind, you download a AAA game once, and it's there forever. It's on your hard drive. Are you buying scores of AAA games everyday and downloading them all onto a 400TB RAID farm? Keep in mind, I am talking about normal, average households. Go around the country, knock on the front door of 10,000 CONPLETELY RANDOM residential houses. Ask what they do with their internet on a daily basis. I bet 200 of them will need more than 50Mbps and 5 of them will need more than 150Mbps.

While for the vast majority of people a 100-200Mbps download speed is fine, the biggest issue comes with the 10Mbps upload. When schools were shutdown in my area in 2020, I have a neighbor with a 50/5 connection and 3 kids all doing virtual schooling. They are required to have their cameras turned on so the teacher knows the kids are in class. With a 720p camera you need anywhere from 1.5-3Mbps of upload speed depending on the codec used. I do not know what codec was used but my guess is an older one since these are Chromebooks. That means 3Mpbs/device just for the upload at 720p quality (which is standard for Chromebooks and laptops). Well they don't have that much bandwidth so the quality of the image will be reduced then during the upload or there will be pauses in the stream. My wife and I were both working from home; She is a teacher and I'm a VMware Admin. We have a 200/10 cable connection. If we both tried to have a video conference at the same time we had severe problems. One morning I did a bandwidth test and we were only getting 15Mbps because so many people were working from home in our neighborhood. That speed would fluctuate during the day and other times I was getting closer to 100Mbps just to have it drop to 45Mbps. I could 100% tell when my bandwidth dropped to 45Mbps or lower.

 

[jkflipflop98]

This would be the bee's knees for content creators as well. Uploading a 4K video that's over 30 minutes takes a while. Your streams would be as clear as your camera would allow.

 

[bit_user]

This would be the bee's knees for content creators as well. Uploading a 4K video that's over 30 minutes takes a while. Your streams would be as clear as your camera would allow.

This is a good point.

I don't think much about cloud-based storage, because I don't use it. For those who do, having gigabit+ speeds has got to be very nice. People working in the content creation business (video, 3D) often work with very large assets, and would hugely benefit from such speeds. Not to mention scientific, medical, or GIS datasets.

 

[jeremyj_83]

This is a good point.

I don't think much about cloud-based storage, because I don't use it. For those who do, having gigabit+ speeds has got to be very nice. People working in the content creation business (video, 3D) often work with very large assets, and would hugely benefit from such speeds. Not to mention scientific, medical, or GIS datasets.

About 15 years ago I had a roommate that did video work for a local minor league baseball team. He would edit the game footage from home and upload it to their website. I believe it was all in SD resolution but these were 1.5 hour videos. We had the fastest internet we could get 15Mbps down and 1.5Mbps up. His upload would take several hours and during that time our internet was basically useless. Faster upload speeds are required.