News GPU Shipments Soar in Q2 with 123 Million Units Delivered

Kamen Rider Blade

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We need accountability, what % of Discrete GPU's went to Miners & Scalpers.

We need a proper breakdown of those numbers from each vendors and ways to prevent that from happening again along with legislation, fines, & regulation against Miners & Scalpers.
 

fball922

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I find the shortage of GPUs really annoying, but I don't really understand the whole need for "accountability" over who is buying what. To me, it would make the most sense for the GPU manufacturers to raise their wholesale prices astronomically to find what the market supports. That eliminates the "scalpers," who are just simple middlemen taking advantage of the difference between MSRP and real market prices. GPU manufacturers have no reason to limit their wares to particular buyers, except maybe as a PR move to build their brand loyalty, but the cost of that at these prices might be too high. It would be like selling your house in this crazy market, but limiting your buyers to people making under $100k and putting a cap on the price at $250k or putting a "no-flip" clause in the sale agreement. It doesn't make sense.

Gamers have no "right" to any of the GPU supply, IMO. It is annoying, but what if AMD or NVidia simply said "we are out of the GPU industry and now sell only general use hardware that is really good at mining and can also render 3D graphics"? Just because the hardware was developed for gaming doesn't mean it belongs to gamers, or that is its only legitimate use.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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I hope it's not for mining, it's for gaming
You need to keep in mind that the 123 million units figure counts IGPs, which would include every Intel non-F CPU and every AMD APU. You probably have your first ~100M units right there.

Then, whatever is left would also include ultra-budget MXxxx on-board graphics, GT710-730, GT1010-1030, etc. entry-level "I just need video outputs" stuff too. RX6000 and RTX3000 series stuff would be some fraction of that.
 
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Upacs

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We need accountability, what % of Discrete GPU's went to Miners & Scalpers.

We need a proper breakdown of those numbers from each vendors and ways to prevent that from happening again along with legislation, fines, & regulation against Miners & Scalpers.
Why, so you can play your favorite games as silly FPS? who says you have the more right to use a GPU to play games vs someone else using the GPU whichever way they see fit (mining or otherwise?) or are you just being a crybaby?

What we need is for Nvidia/AMD to raise prices to whatever the market will bear. This will have several effects:

  • Kill scalpers
  • Increase their profits, which means they can invest into further product development
  • Fatter profits will incentivize others to enter the market and produce other products - more choice is better for all
Economics 101. You are welcome
 
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InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
What we need is for Nvidia/AMD to raise prices to whatever the market will bear. This will have several effects:
  • Increase their profits, which means they can invest into further product development
What the 2017 tax cuts for the wealthy and "employee retention" loans from 2020 have proven is that practically all cheap capital large corporation can score ends up in stock buybacks and other means of inflating executive compensation and benefits before all else.
 

Kamen Rider Blade

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Why, so you can play your favorite games as silly FPS? who says you have the more right to use a GPU to play games vs someone else using the GPU whichever way they see fit (mining or otherwise?) or are you just being a crybaby?

What we need is for Nvidia/AMD to raise prices to whatever the market will bear. This will have several effects:

  • Kill scalpers
  • Increase their profits, which means they can invest into further product development
  • Fatter profits will incentivize others to enter the market and produce other products - more choice is better for all
Economics 101. You are welcome
There's more than one way to solve the problem, I'm not content letting the market regulate itself given how disastrous it's been for gamers and regular folks.

If you like the current market, you should be happy not being able to buy a GPU for your personal use; but for us "Normal Folks", there's better ways to solve this GPU Shortage for normies.
 

Kamen Rider Blade

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Gamers have no "right" to any of the GPU supply, IMO. It is annoying, but what if AMD or NVidia simply said "we are out of the GPU industry and now sell only general use hardware that is really good at mining and can also render 3D graphics"? Just because the hardware was developed for gaming doesn't mean it belongs to gamers, or that is its only legitimate use.
Yes it is, it was developed for Gaming LONG before Crypto Mining was a thing.

It's marketed as a Gaming Card, for gamers.

Should Crypto Miners have rights to waste energy by creating artificial Crypto Currency and polluting the environment more by wasting very precious Electricity & Physical GPU / Video Card resources on their Crypto Mining Money making ponzi scheme?

IMO, HELL NO!!!

We don't need more Fiat Crypto Currency in this world, it doesn't add value to anything other than creating another financial Ponzi Scheme for the 1% or .1% who's going to take advantage of the economic system and screw over all the goofs, marks, and fools who part with their money.

Why should Scalpers get to benefit? They're a wasteful middle-men who serve no real benefit to society other than to drive up costs and make $ for themselves when they bring ZERO value to the table?

We already have Retail Distributors, modern Scalpers on E-bay offer nothing other than being parasites.

Look at all those jack-asses who bought warehouses of PS5's and XSX / XSS units just to scalp online?

Does that make society better?
 

waltc3

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I know these numbers are always merely estimates, but they don't make any sense at all in the retail markets. In the US, everything is grossly overpriced at NewEgg; Best Buy sells almost nothing online these days, and the AMD store is always empty, empty, empty of discrete GPUs. This is the worst, the driest GPU market I've seen since I started buying GPUs in the '90s. It's hard to believe these estimates, frankly.
 
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fball922

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Yes it is, it was developed for Gaming LONG before Crypto Mining was a thing.

It's marketed as a Gaming Card, for gamers.

Should Crypto Miners have rights to waste energy by creating artificial Crypto Currency and polluting the environment more by wasting very precious Electricity & Physical GPU / Video Card resources on their Crypto Mining Money making ponzi scheme?

IMO, HELL NO!!!

We don't need more Fiat Crypto Currency in this world, it doesn't add value to anything other than creating another financial Ponzi Scheme for the 1% or .1% who's going to take advantage of the economic system and screw over all the goofs, marks, and fools who part with their money.

Why should Scalpers get to benefit? They're a wasteful middle-men who serve no real benefit to society other than to drive up costs and make $ for themselves when they bring ZERO value to the table?

We already have Retail Distributors, modern Scalpers on E-bay offer nothing other than being parasites.

Look at all those jack-asses who bought warehouses of PS5's and XSX / XSS units just to scalp online?

Does that make society better?
Make society better? Yes, let's invite the government to regulate the chip markets to make crybaby gamers happy. What happens when the government realizes that playing games promotes poor lifestyle choices or even violence and decides that GPUs are not a net good for society? Who cares if they are marketed as gaming cards? Does the government need to start regulating q-tips because people are sticking them in their ears? Or maybe we need to take down Big Baking Soda because the customers are making fake volcanoes and wasting it?

I don't subscribe to cryptocurrency hype, I don't care what it does. Unless people are stealing energy, they are not taking something illegally. Energy is already fairly well regulated here, if it came to it I am sure there are things the utilities could do to curb usage if its affecting their ability to provide power to other customers (I don't know that, just assuming).

If you buy the hardware and pay for the energy, it is yours to do what you will with (within reason). Just because this is something YOU care about (and you are way in the minority, society-wise), doesn't make it a good candidate for government overreach.
 

TJ Hooker

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Should Crypto Miners have rights to waste energy by creating artificial Crypto Currency and polluting the environment more by wasting very precious Electricity & Physical GPU / Video Card resources on their Crypto Mining Money making ponzi scheme?

IMO, HELL NO!!!
Should gamers have the rights to "waste" energy and precious Physical GPU / Video Card resources, and pollute the environment, for gaming?
 
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2Be_or_Not2Be

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The mere fact that there are mining operations who own hundreds of thousands (yes, 100K+), and I dare say some have over 1M, shows you easily why there is a shortage for gamers & normal people now.

Maybe this could be a solution: Nvidia/AMD should require all partners/retailers to sell only one GPU to a single physical address per month (Microcenter basically does this). If they have a "direct" store for end-users (like AMD does), restrict it to the same w/more stringent safeguards than the basically zero-checking going on now. Maybe they could create a back-end db of state-issued IDs to verify the purchaser's address. Retailers get priority for product, and so they hopefully fulfill the gaming/home user's needs. Those who can't buy online can buy from brick & mortar stores. Those who need more quantity (i.e. miners) can work out separate deals with distributors (as bigger ones are doing now). However, the retailers will get priority on supply from the mfgs/AIBs - no exceeding 75% of total supply - and distributors get 2nd. OEMs can fall in line with the distributors.

Really, the gamers are a smaller group than the others, in terms of total GPUs needed. You could satisfy that market pretty fast. Everyone is happy! (maybe :))
 

Seppapath

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Market share numbers really don't mean anything in this selling environment right now. Considering that anything Nvidia and AMD puts available to sell, sells instantly, it just means that for 4 cards Nvidia makes, AMD is only able to produce 1 card (if my math is right). Production constraints on AMD's part are the only reason their market share is so low in the RDNA 2 family of cards. One would assume in this market, if AMD could turn out 4x more cards, then the market share would be 50/50.
 

LolaGT

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Anyone who has cash and is in line has the same right to buy a GPU for whatever they wish to do with it. Mining, gaming, turning them in to xmas tree ornaments or to fill holes in their driveway.

Gamers that think they are somehow special and want to implement arbitrary restrictions are definitely coming across as crybabies and really have no idea what they are even asking for, until such restrictions come back to bite them.
 
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RareAir23

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Why, so you can play your favorite games as silly FPS? who says you have the more right to use a GPU to play games vs someone else using the GPU whichever way they see fit (mining or otherwise?) or are you just being a crybaby?

What we need is for Nvidia/AMD to raise prices to whatever the market will bear. This will have several effects:

  • Kill scalpers
  • Increase their profits, which means they can invest into further product development
  • Fatter profits will incentivize others to enter the market and produce other products - more choice is better for all
Economics 101. You are welcome
In terms of your economics lesson @Upacs you got it mostly right. Except for lesson 1. It will mostly shut down and discourage amateur scalpers. It will not do anything to stop pro scalpers. It's about time this forum learned the difference between amateur and pro scalpers as there are massive differences in dealing and understanding both. Some of you might know everything I am about to say. Others will be learning this for the first time. First things to understand about the pro scalper over the amateur are all facts. Fact #1: the pro scalpers who are a big part of our struggle are people who have been in the scalping business long before I was born in 1979. When they got their start they were people you found in the parking lots of sports stadiums and concert venues selling tickets they bought to a sporting event or music concert event. Fact #2: pros didn't start by selling the GPUs we all want. It started really with again major sporting events and concerts before I was born. Later, it escalated starting in the 1980's with rare and expensive designer clothes. In the 1990's you started to see pros sell rare basketball shoes (Air Jordans anyone?) and rare and valuable sports/Pokemon/Magic: The Gathering cards. Fact #3: many pros not only have been doing this a long, long time but they have also accumulated a strong amount of wealth on their own (in the millions of dollars) selling items before the RTX 30 series and Radeon RX 6000 series even caught their eye. Therefore they have the disposable income to spend on these GPUs for a long time coming going forward and they will until availability becomes so strong that they can't keep up with the one day down the road expanded inventory.

So what attracted the scalpers as a whole both pro and amateur to high technology items? Well, I've come to believe of everything I've seen, heard and read (and what I know about scalpers who were in the business before the pandemic) it was at first a gamble for them too. One needs to remember that when the pandemic started, it shut down 2 things especially that were a big money-maker for them: college/pro sporting events and music concerts. The pros needed another big ticket item and quick. When they saw our GPUs we want so bad they paid attention to 3 qualities about the product:

  • Ultra high demand from gaming community first (miners second)
  • Limited availability
  • Most of the sale would take place online
From this, the pros first looked into this and said, "We're not making money from concerts and sporting events right now but we have this financial capitol and maybe we can buy a few of these cards when they come out and see if we can sell them for elevated prices." This is the same philosophy/attitude they have for other things they scalped. When they got their retail bots going (that were meant for buying other items before this mind you) and ambushed Amazon/Newegg/Best Buy et al on RTX 3080 launch day and found they were selling a decent amount of them on eBay, StockX, Amazon 3rd party and then later Newegg 3rd party amateurs caught wind quickly and decided to get in the act. In a way this became a perfect storm for them to make money and us to be left out of being able to build/upgrade our machines for some time (that's still going on by the way). Some scalpers who started as amateur when the RTX 3080 launched have graduated to pros during this time and based on where we are at now and where this is going to continue it will be amateurs backing out at one point but there will be some pros who drag this out as long as possible or as long as other money making options are not easily available due to the pandemic. Out!
 

Kamen Rider Blade

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In terms of your economics lesson @Upacs you got it mostly right. Except for lesson 1. It will mostly shut down and discourage amateur scalpers. It will not do anything to stop pro scalpers. It's about time this forum learned the difference between amateur and pro scalpers as there are massive differences in dealing and understanding both. Some of you might know everything I am about to say. Others will be learning this for the first time. First things to understand about the pro scalper over the amateur are all facts. Fact #1: the pro scalpers who are a big part of our struggle are people who have been in the scalping business long before I was born in 1979. When they got their start they were people you found in the parking lots of sports stadiums and concert venues selling tickets they bought to a sporting event or music concert event. Fact #2: pros didn't start by selling the GPUs we all want. It started really with again major sporting events and concerts before I was born. Later, it escalated starting in the 1980's with rare and expensive designer clothes. In the 1990's you started to see pros sell rare basketball shoes (Air Jordans anyone?) and rare and valuable sports/Pokemon/Magic: The Gathering cards. Fact #3: many pros not only have been doing this a long, long time but they have also accumulated a strong amount of wealth on their own (in the millions of dollars) selling items before the RTX 30 series and Radeon RX 6000 series even caught their eye. Therefore they have the disposable income to spend on these GPUs for a long time coming going forward and they will until availability becomes so strong that they can't keep up with the one day down the road expanded inventory.

So what attracted the scalpers as a whole both pro and amateur to high technology items? Well, I've come to believe of everything I've seen, heard and read (and what I know about scalpers who were in the business before the pandemic) it was at first a gamble for them too. One needs to remember that when the pandemic started, it shut down 2 things especially that were a big money-maker for them: college/pro sporting events and music concerts. The pros needed another big ticket item and quick. When they saw our GPUs we want so bad they paid attention to 3 qualities about the product:

  • Ultra high demand from gaming community first (miners second)
  • Limited availability
  • Most of the sale would take place online
From this, the pros first looked into this and said, "We're not making money from concerts and sporting events right now but we have this financial capitol and maybe we can buy a few of these cards when they come out and see if we can sell them for elevated prices." This is the same philosophy/attitude they have for other things they scalped. When they got their retail bots going (that were meant for buying other items before this mind you) and ambushed Amazon/Newegg/Best Buy et al on RTX 3080 launch day and found they were selling a decent amount of them on eBay, StockX, Amazon 3rd party and then later Newegg 3rd party amateurs caught wind quickly and decided to get in the act. In a way this became a perfect storm for them to make money and us to be left out of being able to build/upgrade our machines for some time (that's still going on by the way). Some scalpers who started as amateur when the RTX 3080 launched have graduated to pros during this time and based on where we are at now and where this is going to continue it will be amateurs backing out at one point but there will be some pros who drag this out as long as possible or as long as other money making options are not easily available due to the pandemic. Out!
Outlaw Scalping, we need to hunt down these people and punish them.
We need regulations on who can sell what, and for how much.

Scalpers (Amateur or Pro) are a parasitic middle-men who bring ZERO value to society and should get their heads cut-off IMO.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Outlaw Scalping, we need to hunt down these people and punish them.
If you want to stop scalpers, you also need to ban free enterprises from setting their own prices or at least set hard limits on how much they can mark up their amortized unit costs.

Without scalpers, we'd still have exorbitant street prices on GPUs and other components hit hardest by component shortages, except it would be the manufacturers, distributors and retailers' executive soaking all of the extra cash.
 

castl3bravo

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What a hilarious set of circumstances.

Miners and cryptocurrency is silly and dangerous (i.e., ransomware really sucks and cryptocurrency, like Monroe, facilitates it).

If video games require faster cards and 4-5 year old cards aren't good enough then fewer people are going to be buying AAA games. When a GTX1080 isn't enough then there are other things I can do than spending $700 on a mediocre graphics card.
 

brian532

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Sep 12, 2007
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We need accountability, what % of Discrete GPU's went to Miners & Scalpers.

We need a proper breakdown of those numbers from each vendors and ways to prevent that from happening again along with legislation, fines, & regulation against Miners & Scalpers.
Easy. Just start an official auction site run by the vendors with the excess over retail going to charity. Every week Nvidia put 1,000 units up, bid for 2 -3 days, 1,000 highest bidders get a unit. Scalpers get ZERO GPUs, consumers get ALL of them and a charity gets a huge donation. Hold back on the rules and regs and let the free market work like it should. I am sure everyone would feel a lot better seeing $100,000 go to cancer research every week and scalper get NOTHING!!!
 

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