grab the reins entwined, _second_ target invalid

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I was sure this question had been answered before, but all of Google on
the group, Saturday School, and Ask the Judge turned up empty (Well, I
found the "usual FAQs" in all three). I cast Grab the Reins (entwine),
targeting Vulshok War Boar (to steal) and Spire Golem (to hit). In
response, my opponent sacrifices Spire Golem to Krark-Clan Grunt. Since
the second target is not valid but the first is, the spell still
resolves as best it can, not affecting the second target. Do I still
sacrifice a creature, or not? I wasn't sure if the sacrifice was
considered part of an effect on the second target, or only the damage was.

Thanks,

Rahul Chandra

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Rahul Chandra <mathie_uw@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I was sure this question had been answered before, but all of Google on
> the group, Saturday School, and Ask the Judge turned up empty (Well, I
> found the "usual FAQs" in all three). I cast Grab the Reins (entwine),
> targeting Vulshok War Boar (to steal) and Spire Golem (to hit). In
> response, my opponent sacrifices Spire Golem to Krark-Clan Grunt. Since
> the second target is not valid but the first is, the spell still
> resolves as best it can, not affecting the second target. Do I still
> sacrifice a creature, or not? I wasn't sure if the sacrifice was
> considered part of an effect on the second target, or only the damage was.

The "sacrifice a creature" part of the entwined effect doesn't require
the presence of the second target, so is not inhibited. Of course, you
don't choose the creature for this until you get to this part of the
effect, so you might choose something other than your original
intention.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Rahul Chandra, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> I was sure this question had been answered before, but all of Google on
> the group, Saturday School, and Ask the Judge turned up empty (Well, I
> found the "usual FAQs" in all three). I cast Grab the Reins (entwine),
> targeting Vulshok War Boar (to steal) and Spire Golem (to hit). In
> response, my opponent sacrifices Spire Golem to Krark-Clan Grunt. Since
> the second target is not valid but the first is, the spell still
> resolves as best it can, not affecting the second target. Do I still
> sacrifice a creature, or not? I wasn't sure if the sacrifice was
> considered part of an effect on the second target, or only the damage was.

Grab the Reins
{3}{R}
Instant
Choose one -- Until end of turn, you gain control of target creature and
it gains haste; or sacrifice a creature, then Grab the Reins deals
damage equal to that creature's power to target creature or player.
Entwine {2}{R} (Choose both if you pay the entwine cost.)

You would still sacrifice a creature. If all of a spell's targets
become invalid, of course, it's countered, but that's not the case here.
If some but not all of a spell's targets are invalid, as much of its
effect as possible still occurs, so if you paid the Entwine cost, you
must still sacrifice a creature, even if your opponent has in the
meantime got rid of the creature you would have dealt damage to.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Wed, 05 May 2004 15:23:29 GMT, Rahul Chandra <mathie_uw@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>I was sure this question had been answered before, but all of Google on
>the group, Saturday School, and Ask the Judge turned up empty (Well, I
>found the "usual FAQs" in all three). I cast Grab the Reins (entwine),
>targeting Vulshok War Boar (to steal) and Spire Golem (to hit). In
>response, my opponent sacrifices Spire Golem to Krark-Clan Grunt. Since
>the second target is not valid but the first is, the spell still
>resolves as best it can, not affecting the second target.

Right.

> Do I still
>sacrifice a creature, or not? I wasn't sure if the sacrifice was
>considered part of an effect on the second target, or only the damage was.

Grab the Reins 3R Instant
Choose one -- Until end of turn, you gain control of target creature and it
gains haste; or sacrifice a creature, then ~ deals damage equal to that
creature's power to target creature or player. / Entwine 2R (*)

You still have to sacrifice the creature; if you want, you can sacrifice the
Boar you just grabbed. Grab the Reins then tries to deal the sacrificed
creature's power in damage to the Golem, but can't because the Golem's now
an illegal target, so does nothing more.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson wrote:

> Rahul Chandra <mathie_uw@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>I was sure this question had been answered before, but all of Google on
>>the group, Saturday School, and Ask the Judge turned up empty (Well, I
>>found the "usual FAQs" in all three). I cast Grab the Reins (entwine),
>>targeting Vulshok War Boar (to steal) and Spire Golem (to hit). In
>>response, my opponent sacrifices Spire Golem to Krark-Clan Grunt. Since
>>the second target is not valid but the first is, the spell still
>>resolves as best it can, not affecting the second target. Do I still
>>sacrifice a creature, or not? I wasn't sure if the sacrifice was
>>considered part of an effect on the second target, or only the damage was.
>
>
> The "sacrifice a creature" part of the entwined effect doesn't require
> the presence of the second target, so is not inhibited. Of course, you
> don't choose the creature for this until you get to this part of the
> effect, so you might choose something other than your original
> intention.

You choose all targets on announcing the spell.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, kicksy!
You wrote on Thu, 13 May 2004 17:32:46 GMT:

>> The "sacrifice a creature" part of the entwined effect doesn't
>> require
>> the presence of the second target, so is not inhibited. Of
>> course, you
>> don't choose the creature for this until you get to this part of
>> the
>> effect, so you might choose something other than your original
>> intention.

k> You choose all targets on announcing the spell.
What Daniel actually meant is that you choose what creature to
*sacrifice*, which is not a target and thus chosen only on resolution.

Regards,
Arkady.