Question graphics card optimum efficacy

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Aeacus

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I was thinking that perhaps you have it running in PCI-E 3.0 but you're not.

Though, how old is the 980 Pro in your system? :unsure:

--

From CrystalDiskInfo, i see that your drive has had a lot of Host Writes. Even more than Host Reads.
Also, compared to the Power On Hours, you also have a lot of Power On Counts. Essentially meaning, that on average, your PC is running ~2h at once.

This indicates heavy usage of Sleep/Hibernate. Putting PC to sleep, will put a lot of writes on the SSD, by the OS.

--

Host Writes will wear down the SSD. The more writes per day there are - the faster the drive wears out. Same goes to the constant power on/power off cycle.

IMO, sleep/hibernate are unnecessary, especially due to the unnecessary writes it puts on the drive. Shutting PC completely down and turning it back on (cold boot), takes only few seconds more, than waking PC up from sleep/hibernation.

For example, here are my PC (Skylake, full specs with pics in my sig), CrystalDiskInfo screens;

Current OS drive: 970 Evo Plus 2TB, in service since April 2022 (6 months).



Prior OS drive: 960 Evo 500GB, in service from March 2018 to April 2022 (4 years, 1 month).



See any difference between Host Writes and Power On counts between my PC and yours?

On average, i have my PC running for ~10 hours and i never use sleep/hibernate. This also won't do any unnecessary writes on my drives, whereby i have only half of Host Writes, compared to Host Reads, thus keeping the drive far healthier.

Now, it is possible that the high Host Writes and loads of Power On Counts is the reason why your 980 Pro is underperforming, since you've used it heavily (i'd even like to say abused it).
As of fixing it, and if given there is no software issue, you can't fix the heavy usage damage.
 

roieco

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Dec 4, 2020
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I was thinking that perhaps you have it running in PCI-E 3.0 but you're not.

Though, how old is the 980 Pro in your system? :unsure:

--

From CrystalDiskInfo, i see that your drive has had a lot of Host Writes. Even more than Host Reads.
Also, compared to the Power On Hours, you also have a lot of Power On Counts. Essentially meaning, that on average, your PC is running ~2h at once.

This indicates heavy usage of Sleep/Hibernate. Putting PC to sleep, will put a lot of writes on the SSD, by the OS.

--

Host Writes will wear down the SSD. The more writes per day there are - the faster the drive wears out. Same goes to the constant power on/power off cycle.

IMO, sleep/hibernate are unnecessary, especially due to the unnecessary writes it puts on the drive. Shutting PC completely down and turning it back on (cold boot), takes only few seconds more, than waking PC up from sleep/hibernation.

For example, here are my PC (Skylake, full specs with pics in my sig), CrystalDiskInfo screens;

Current OS drive: 970 Evo Plus 2TB, in service since April 2022 (6 months).



Prior OS drive: 960 Evo 500GB, in service from March 2018 to April 2022 (4 years, 1 month).



See any difference between Host Writes and Power On counts between my PC and yours?

On average, i have my PC running for ~10 hours and i never use sleep/hibernate. This also won't do any unnecessary writes on my drives, whereby i have only half of Host Writes, compared to Host Reads, thus keeping the drive far healthier.

Now, it is possible that the high Host Writes and loads of Power On Counts is the reason why your 980 Pro is underperforming, since you've used it heavily (i'd even like to say abused it).
As of fixing it, and if given there is no software issue, you can't fix the heavy usage damage.
thanks @Aeacus ,

well,
  1. if i understand correctly, the 980 pro is rated for 1200tb writes. I've done 20tb so far (1.6%). should that have damaged the ssd? (both magician and CrystalDiskInfo say the condition of the drive is good)
  2. i do use sleep, but no hibernate and no hybrid sleep. so as far as i understand it shouldn't use the disk at all. am i mistaken?
  3. i use the pc typically all day long and only put it to sleep at night or when i leave it for more than an hour
  4. in magician i get pretty good results (6.8 gb/s read, 5.2 gb/s write). thats why i thought it weird that i got poor results on those other benchmarks (3dmark and Userbenchmark)
so i downloaded and ran crystaldiskmark. here is the result:



what do you think?
 

Aeacus

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if i understand correctly, the 980 pro is rated for 1200tb writes. I've done 20tb so far (1.6%). should that have damaged the ssd? (both magician and CrystalDiskInfo say the condition of the drive is good)
Yes, 980 Pro 2TB is rated for 1200 TBW over 5 years. But it is also rated 0.3 DWPD (Drive Writes Per Day).
Review: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16087/the-samsung-980-pro-pcie-4-ssd-review

Which for 2TB 980 Pro, with 5 year warranty, the 0.3 DWPD (it's actually 0.329 DWPD) = 657.5 GB written per day.
Write more than 657.5 GB per day on a drive and you'll wear the drive out faster. And if you do RMA claim (because your drive died within the 5 year warranty period) and if Samsung happens to check DWPD, by seeing it being more than drive was rated for, they can deny the RMA for you.

Here's a neat calculator to calculate DWPD, based on the drive size, TBW and warranty period,
link: https://wintelguy.com/dwpd-tbw-gbday-calc.pl

i do use sleep, but no hibernate and no hybrid sleep. so as far as i understand it shouldn't use the disk at all. am i mistaken?
Sleep, yes, keeps the data in RAM, while Hibernate writes all RAM contents to OS drive (SSD) and then powers off the system.

Though, based on CrystalDiskInfo and the Total Host Writes you have, it's one of the two:
  1. You think you're using Sleep, but PC actually uses Hibernate.
  2. You download and write a ton of data on your SSD on daily basis, which skyrockets the GB written.
And SSDs have limited amount of write cycles, the NAND flash can endure, before it's toast.

i use the pc typically all day long and only put it to sleep at night or when i leave it for more than an hour
Based on the Power On Count and Power On Hours, the average is still ~2h per one power on.

Small calculation:
2991 work hours divided by 1472 power on instances = 2.03 work hours per 1 power on. (Numbers don't lie.)

Now, the average can go up if you keep your PC working for longer periods of time. But if you often reboot and/or put your PC to sleep, the average goes down.

in magician i get pretty good results (6.8 gb/s read, 5.2 gb/s write). thats why i thought it weird that i got poor results on those other benchmarks (3dmark and Userbenchmark)
CrystalDiskMark results are good, similar to Samsung Magician.

I don't use 3DMark myself and can't tell, by which metric, they use to rate the storage benchmark.

As far as UserBenchmark goes, it seems to factor in the used drive space and in a negative way.
For example, here's my PC run, that i did ~5 months ago,
link: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/51274696

And all 4 of my drives, despite being good ones, are underperforming according to UserBenchmark. I don't see/feel any of them underperforming and my Samsung drives have benchmarked according to their specs, in Samsung Magician.

--

All-in-all, if you don't notice drive read/write slow downs, don't let 3DMark and UserBenchmark to rattle you. :)
 

roieco

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Dec 4, 2020
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Yes, 980 Pro 2TB is rated for 1200 TBW over 5 years. But it is also rated 0.3 DWPD (Drive Writes Per Day).
Review: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16087/the-samsung-980-pro-pcie-4-ssd-review

Which for 2TB 980 Pro, with 5 year warranty, the 0.3 DWPD (it's actually 0.329 DWPD) = 657.5 GB written per day.
Write more than 657.5 GB per day on a drive and you'll wear the drive out faster. And if you do RMA claim (because your drive died within the 5 year warranty period) and if Samsung happens to check DWPD, by seeing it being more than drive was rated for, they can deny the RMA for you.

Here's a neat calculator to calculate DWPD, based on the drive size, TBW and warranty period,
link: https://wintelguy.com/dwpd-tbw-gbday-calc.pl



Sleep, yes, keeps the data in RAM, while Hibernate writes all RAM contents to OS drive (SSD) and then powers off the system.

Though, based on CrystalDiskInfo and the Total Host Writes you have, it's one of the two:
  1. You think you're using Sleep, but PC actually uses Hibernate.
  2. You download and write a ton of data on your SSD on daily basis, which skyrockets the GB written.
And SSDs have limited amount of write cycles, the NAND flash can endure, before it's toast.



Based on the Power On Count and Power On Hours, the average is still ~2h per one power on.

Small calculation:
2991 work hours divided by 1472 power on instances = 2.03 work hours per 1 power on. (Numbers don't lie.)

Now, the average can go up if you keep your PC working for longer periods of time. But if you often reboot and/or put your PC to sleep, the average goes down.



CrystalDiskMark results are good, similar to Samsung Magician.

I don't use 3DMark myself and can't tell, by which metric, they use to rate the storage benchmark.

As far as UserBenchmark goes, it seems to factor in the used drive space and in a negative way.
For example, here's my PC run, that i did ~5 months ago,
link: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/51274696

And all 4 of my drives, despite being good ones, are underperforming according to UserBenchmark. I don't see/feel any of them underperforming and my Samsung drives have benchmarked according to their specs, in Samsung Magician.

--

All-in-all, if you don't notice drive read/write slow downs, don't let 3DMark and UserBenchmark to rattle you. :)
thanks @Aeacus .

that's very odd, as i turn my pc on at the morning and typically turn it off late at night. however my ssd's are set to turn off in the power plan if not used for 20 minutes. could that be the cause?

as for the high write count - i have no idea what causes it. hibernation is disabled and all that i can think of is that i installed windows a few times when i assembled the computer as there was a problem with the riser cable that took me some time to debug.
 

Aeacus

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Ambassador
however my ssd's are set to turn off in the power plan if not used for 20 minutes. could that be the cause?
Yes. That will skyrocket the Power On Count.

SSDs use very little power and the Win feature of "power down disk drives" is from the old days of HDD. HDDs use considerably more power and back then, it had some merits as of why to power them down, to save on electricity costs and also expanding their life (since HDD is mechanical drive with moving parts). But with SSDs, that feature is obsolete. Especially since you can put your PC to Sleep on command.

all that i can think of is that i installed windows a few times
Based on CrystalDiskInfo, i can calculate that on average, you've written ~7 GB of stuff on your SSD, per hour.

Calculation:
21135 GB (20.6 TB) written divided by 2991 work hours = 7.06 GB written per hour (169.58 GB per day).

As of what increases Write Counts:
  • Hibernation
  • Malware
  • Faulty driver/software/app
Here, i suggest to download disk monitoring tool, to check what is constantly writing on your SSD.

Personally, i'm using Process Explorer. Since among many, it is also a great tool to see which programs hog your system resources,
link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

Guide on how to understand it,
link: https://www.howtogeek.com/school/sysinternals-pro/lesson2/

E.g screen of it:



Main window is on the right side. At the top of the window, there are several graph boxes. If you click on any of them, another window opens (left side), that you can click on different tabs for more in-depth info. I've selected the I/O tab. And if you hover over the graph, e.g Disk, it will tell you what is currently going on. On my screen, MBAMService.exe (MalwareBytes Premium) had a small, 8.2 MB Disk Read, with 0 MB Disk Write. (My mouse cursor wasn't captured on screen, but it is there, next to small pop-up.)

Process Explorer is essentially Task Manager, but 10 times better.

Oh, you can also add sys tray icons (bottom right of your taskbar), to monitor your system behavior. I've put CPU usage monitor there (just right of Steam icon), so that when my CPU usage goes up, i can notice it, open up Process Explorer (by clicking on the small taskbar icon) and look what is going on. But you can add other telemetry icons as well, e.g Disk usage.
 

roieco

Prominent
Dec 4, 2020
111
1
595
1
Yes. That will skyrocket the Power On Count.

SSDs use very little power and the Win feature of "power down disk drives" is from the old days of HDD. HDDs use considerably more power and back then, it had some merits as of why to power them down, to save on electricity costs and also expanding their life (since HDD is mechanical drive with moving parts). But with SSDs, that feature is obsolete. Especially since you can put your PC to Sleep on command.



Based on CrystalDiskInfo, i can calculate that on average, you've written ~7 GB of stuff on your SSD, per hour.

Calculation:
21135 GB (20.6 TB) written divided by 2991 work hours = 7.06 GB written per hour (169.58 GB per day).

As of what increases Write Counts:
  • Hibernation
  • Malware
  • Faulty driver/software/app
Here, i suggest to download disk monitoring tool, to check what is constantly writing on your SSD.

Personally, i'm using Process Explorer. Since among many, it is also a great tool to see which programs hog your system resources,
link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

Guide on how to understand it,
link: https://www.howtogeek.com/school/sysinternals-pro/lesson2/

E.g screen of it:



Main window is on the right side. At the top of the window, there are several graph boxes. If you click on any of them, another window opens (left side), that you can click on different tabs for more in-depth info. I've selected the I/O tab. And if you hover over the graph, e.g Disk, it will tell you what is currently going on. On my screen, MBAMService.exe (MalwareBytes Premium) had a small, 8.2 MB Disk Read, with 0 MB Disk Write. (My mouse cursor wasn't captured on screen, but it is there, next to small pop-up.)

Process Explorer is essentially Task Manager, but 10 times better.

Oh, you can also add sys tray icons (bottom right of your taskbar), to monitor your system behavior. I've put CPU usage monitor there (just right of Steam icon), so that when my CPU usage goes up, i can notice it, open up Process Explorer (by clicking on the small taskbar icon) and look what is going on. But you can add other telemetry icons as well, e.g Disk usage.
thanks @Aeacus .

this makes no sense. in the time since you last posted i've been monitoring my c drive activity closely.
  • activity remained very low at almost all times (except when running a game or loading an app)
  • hibernation is disabled for sure
  • i turned it off (sleep) only once or twice a day
but look at those results:

on oct 3rd:



on oct 8th:



according to these results in the last 5 days
  1. the ssd was powered for 31 hours (~6 hours a day - i know for sure that it has been on for much more every day)
  2. was powered on 11 times (about as expected
  3. has written 800 gb of data. that's about 26 gb per hour! (by the data shown)
i should mention that i have other drives that are used for data storage. drive c is only used for application installation and OS.

so i have 2 questions:
  1. how can we explain the weird result on power on hours?
  2. how can i understand the source of the huge write count? could it be linked to the swap file?
 

Aeacus

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how can i understand the source of the huge write count? could it be linked to the swap file?
Download Process Explorer and monitor what activity is going on with your SSD.

how can we explain the weird result on power on hours?
~6 hours a day - i know for sure that it has been on for much more every day
It is possible, that from Windows power plan settings, there is still some setting affecting the SSD and it's "power on hours".

Checked mine and i have "Balanced" power plan, with "Never" to put either the monitor or drives to sleep. Also, i don't use the on-command Sleep either. Instead, i power on my PC (cold start), do all my tasks, including work, from PC and when day is over, i shut down the PC (full power off). I also don't do any reboots/restarts either (unless some program/win update requires it). I even keep my PC on when doing home tasks and i'm AFK (away from keyboard), e.g dinner or walking my doggo during the day.

Also, i'm not sure, but screen saver or similar program, may have impact on SSD power on hours.

Oh, are you running Win10 or Win11?
I'm running Win10 Pro 64-bit.

--

For comparison, here's my OS drive (970 Evo Plus 2TB) latest telemetry;



Compared to Monday, when i 1st posted my telemetry, the differences of my OS drive are:
  • 9529 GB read vs 9192 GB read at Monday (diff of 337 GB read for ~6 days, or ~51.6 GB read per day)
  • 4917 GGB write vs 4798 GB write at Monday (diff of 119 GB written for ~6 days, or ~19.8 GB written per day)
  • 198 power on counts vs 192 at Monday (as expected, 6 power ons, since ~6 days have passed)
  • 2194 power on hours vs 2108 at Monday (also as expected, 86 hours for ~6 days, or ~14.3 hours per day)
 

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