Question GTX 1070 vs newer Nvidia Cards

smithchrism

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Aug 2, 2013
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Hi there,

Long story short, I had a reason to jerk out my AMD card and install an old Nvidia GTX 1070 I had lying around.

Doing this has brought up two questions:

- My preferred method to hook my system to my monitor is with a display port cable. When I first booted my system with the 1070, I had a blank screen and nothing I did generated an image. On a hunch, I tried an HDMI cable. It worked like a charm. I installed the video drivers and did some quick research. According to what I saw, the 1070 will only bring a screen up if the drivers are installed. I powered down my system, swapped the HDMI for a Displayport cable, and booted the system backup. Now with drivers, once the system got to Windows the display worked. Sure enough, after playing around, I can verify my system only generates an image on my monitor if it can load a driver for the vid card (don't boot into safe mode!!). If I ever want to do something like uninstall a vid driver, I have to swap to an HDMI cable first. Are the newer Nvidia video cards like this?

- One area my AMD card may be beating this GTX1070 is in image quality. My games have a very slight sandy texture look to them. Hard to describe. Is the image quality of the newer Nvidia cards better than the 1070 series?

Thanks for any thoughts,
Chris Smith
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Your problem was more likely the fact that your BIOS didn't know you had changed cards. Sometimes you need to do a CMOS reset when changing cards, especially when going from one camp to the other.

Aside from that possibility, no, you should not need to install drivers in order to have a display. Even with no hard drive, and therefore no drivers at all installed, you should still be capable of getting a basic display no matter what kind of output you are using on the card so long as it is

  1. Supported by the monitor
  2. Selected as the the input source on the monitor
  3. No adapters or adapter cables are being used
If there are adapters or adapter cables in use, then other factors might become part of the equation in some cases. None of which is an AMD or Nvidia thing, as I've seen this happen on cards of both types. It is not typical for ANY graphics card so long as it is supported AND it would be wise to make sure that you have the MOST recent motherboard BIOS version installed because that too might be a factor in card support as well.

Beyond that, your image quality is not because of it being an AMD or Nvidia card, specifically. Much MORE likely is the fact that you did not clear out the old drivers and registry settings using the DDU, BEFORE you installed the latest Nvidia drivers. Or, you could have an issue with that card. Or a bad cable. Or your AMD card might be of lower performance and not require as many watts from the power supply as your 1070 does. Hard to say since you don't say what model of AMD card you have OR why you pulled it out.

Knowing your EXACT power supply model would probably be helpful.

Also, this might be something you want to do as well. Actually, all of it, or some part of all of it.


If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the chipset, storage controllers, audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates.


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory and SPD tabs. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.



The last thing we want to look at,

for now anyhow, is the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.



Also, if this is a "no signal detected" or other lack of visual display problem, it is probably a good idea to make sure the problem is not just a bad cable or the wrong cable IF this is a display issue. If it is NOT related to a lack of display signal, then obviously this part is not relevant to your issue.

This happens a lot. Try a different cable or a different TYPE of cable. Sometimes there can be issues with the monitor or card not supporting a specific specification such as HDMI 1.4 vs HDMI 2.0, or even an HDMI output stops working but the Displayport or DVI output still works fine on the graphics card. Always worth checking the cable and trying other cables because cables get run over, bent, bent pins or simply were cheap quality to begin with and something as simple as trying a different cable or different monitor might be all that is required to solve your issue.
 

smithchrism

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Aug 2, 2013
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Your problem was more likely the fact that your BIOS didn't know you had changed cards. Sometimes you need to do a CMOS reset when changing cards, especially when going from one camp to the other.

::rest of excellent post deleted for sake of keeping things short::
Thanks for the response. A LOT to digest there.

Regarding the vid card swap out, I'm one of the people who are having issues with AMD's 5700XTs and their vid driver. Several sites are now beginning to comment on this and AMD's forums are FULL of posts with this issue. I decided to swap out my AMD card with the old GTX1070 I had to see what would happen. I'm so happy with the results I don't think I'm going to put the AMD card back in.

Regarding the image not showing up on monitor until driver loads up in Windows, I never considered doing a CMOS reset for this and never have had to in the past regardless of computer or video cards. You really think that is necessary? The system works fine as long as I plug it in with an HDMI cable. Displayport does work but only once Windows boots up and has a chance for drivers to load in (thankfully my system boots fast).

I will reset the CMOS though. It's a quick, easy thing to do and will not hurt anything so I'll give it a shot.

I never had this type of situation with the AMD card. Plus, the image quality of the AMD card was never in doubt so I never considered the displayport cable itself maybe the issue. I got no idea if the cable I have now is 1.4 capable or not or anything else in that regard. So, I hopped online just now and bought what should be a good one. We'll wait and see if that helps any.

My PSU is a Seasonic Prime PX-850. I doubt it's a problem of any sort.

I will say I did do the DDU bit when it came to unintalling/installing the card and dealing with the drivers. I hope everything got wiped when I used DDU. I even did it in safe mode multiple times.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks for the response!
Chris Smith
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
If you used the DDU then it should have been all you needed to do if THAT was the issue. Obviously, it must not be.

The CMOS reset is NOT always necessary, and usually it's not, but I've seen enough instances where that is what corrected the issue to say confidently that yes, sometimes it is. It might require a combination of things including a specific motherboard, with specific hardware installed with a specific BIOS version, before it is an issue, but it happens, because I've seen it repeatedly.

Don't ever doubt that ANY power supply isn't the problem, ever. I've seen brand new Prime Ultra platinum and Corsair AXi power supplies, some of the best the world has ever seen, be faulty right out of the box. Or be faulty before long has passed. Clearly that is not usually going to be the case and that is an excellent power supply, but being excellent alone doesn't mean a power supply can't have a problem. Not saying yours does, just saying, don't ever assume that because it is an excellent unit, it can't be an excellent unit WITH a problem. It's all manufacturing and mistakes can be made by people and machines.

I agree that the AMD cards are having some problems. As seen here:

https://www.techspot.com/news/84005-gamers-ditching-radeon-graphics-cards-over-driver-issues.html

So I can't blame you for wanting to swap to Nvidia. There have been a lot of discussions about this lately, both here and elsewhere, and of course not everybody agrees. People with AMD hardware who don't have problems will be vociferous about the fact that there are no problems, because they have no personal experience of having one so everybody else must be mistaken. People who have had problems, will be the opposite, and feel as though those people's time is coming. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.

None of it however should have anything to do with your Nvidia card not working properly at first with DP so I think either the BIOS hardware tables being reset or some other hidden configuration issue, or perhaps a monitor setting, could be to blame. I guess as long as it's working now it's a moot issue anyhow but I doubt you'll have the same problem again later unless you swap cards.

As I said before, make sure you have the most recent BIOS version installed as well. That is always an important consideration.
 

smithchrism

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Aug 2, 2013
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Hey Dark,

Check this out!

NVIDIA GRAPHICS FIRMWARE UPDATE TOOL FOR DISPLAYPORT 1.3 AND 1.4 DISPLAYS

Apparently there is some compatibility issue or something. This will update the firmware on the card. I have decided the image quality of the card is NOT as good as AMD's as I asked about in my original post. I hope this helps out as well.

I'll attempt to apply this later when I get home and report back the results.

I agree that the AMD cards are having some problems. As seen here:

https://www.techspot.com/news/84005-gamers-ditching-radeon-graphics-cards-over-driver-issues.html

So I can't blame you for wanting to swap to Nvidia. There have been a lot of discussions about this lately, both here and elsewhere, and of course not everybody agrees. People with AMD hardware who don't have problems will be vociferous about the fact that there are no problems, because they have no personal experience of having one so everybody else must be mistaken. People who have had problems, will be the opposite, and feel as though those people's time is coming. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle.
The shame of this is the 5700XT is an excellent card. Based on my usage combined with reviewing benchmarks on the Internet, it appears this card slots in nicely between the GTX 2070 and 2080 minus ray tracing. Yet, it only costs a bit over $400. I'm convinced for the money you can't beat this card.

That is a moot point though if it doesn't work. :(

I'll apply the patch tonight and report back.

Thanks again,
Chris Smith
 

smithchrism

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Aug 2, 2013
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Cool man. Thanks for the info and let me know how it works out.
I applied the firmware update. My system is now acting as I expect it to; I can see a screen when my system is posting and such.

That information is good to keep in the ol' memory banks. Worked like a charm; just apply and reboot.

Thanks for the replies.

Chris Smith
 

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