gtx285 and 280 sli

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Note that an old GTX 580 would be almost 3X faster than a GTX 280, while a 7970 would be almost 4X faster (same as a 280X).
See my results (Call of Juarez, GPU-bound DX10 test):

http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/callofjuarez.txt

Thus, with respect to adding a 2nd 285, you're probably better off just replacing it with a newer card (more
power efficient, less stutter, etc.) A 760 would be nice, or of course the very excellent new 970.


Btw, I'd love to be able to run the COJ benchmark at 2560x1440; if anyone knows how this can be done, do let me know.

Ian.

PS. Other data (alas I've not had time to test 280 for all other benchmarks yet):

http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/sgi.html#PC

 
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The problem is im just 15 years old and don't have the money for a better graphics card. But i do have this 280 laying around.

 
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TBH you'd find it easier to locate a 2nd 280 then another 285. You'd be better off selling the 280,
use the money to help get something else (even if it's not the latest tech), then sell the 285.

285s are fairly rare, it ought to fetch a decent amount I'd have thought.


Blimey, 15... at that age all I had was an 8bit Acorn Electron. 😀

Ian.

 
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You could indeed SLI them, and that wouldn't be too bad for playing older games,
but for any kind of newer game even a single slightly later card (eg. 580, 5850, etc.)
would leave 285 SLI in the dust.

As for BIOS flashing, you're better off selling the cards as they are, assuming they
both work A-ok atm, leave any flashing option to whoever buys them, ie. pass on
the flashing risk to someone else.

Ian.

 
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Hmm, not so familiar with the age of most of those, but Far Cry 3 is a fairly
recent game, yes? That means it'll be using DX11 quite a lot, which of course
the 28x series can't do, so you'd be stuck at DX10 visuals.

For DX9/DX10 games, 285 SLI can be pretty decent, though of course Crysis
hammers such a config to death, eg. see:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-285,2139-4.html

The earlier Far Cry 2 engine was nowhere near as strenuous, ditto COD WaW, etc.

If you want the best visuals (DX11 support with newer games), get a 580,
but try and get a 3GB edition. Having said that, recent price drops because
of the 900 series release mean that some newer options might be worth
considering aswell, eg. the GTX 760, that'd be a nice newer alternative if
you can bag one 2nd-hand, and probably the same or cheaper than a 3GB
580 while using less power & making less noise.

A year ago, 580s were great used card choices, because the prices of newer
cards were too high compared to the potent value of a 580 SLI setup (faster
than a 780 at much less cost). With the 900 cards out, prices have dropped
quite a bit, so unless you can find 580s on the used market also going for
a decent amount less than they used to, have a look around and see if you
can find something from the mid-700 series instead.

Here's a typical review link:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7103/nvidia-geforce-gtx-760-review/9

Notice the 760 comes about about the same give or take as a 7970, and
a 7970 is normally faster than a 580, so there's a speed edge aswell.

So, if 580s have gotten decently cheaper, then yes they'd be good, but if
good models are still going for the same amounts then hunt for a 760
instead. Heck, even a new 760 now costs less than the last top-spec 3GB
580 I bought (reference 3GB 580s aren't so bad). And one thing to be
said for a single better card like a 760: much less stutter than 285s SLI
for sure. I certainly like the raw avg fps performance of my 3GB 580 SLI
setup, but the stuttering can be annoying sometimes (it's particularly
obvious in a game like Stalker COP, which I'm currently playing). I plan on
selling the 580s as potent CUDA cards, replace them with a single 980
in a month or so.

Btw, my three 280s are all 700MHz, faster than the 285. 😀 (Zotac
AMP editions, took a while to find them)

Ian.

PS. I'm looking into what setup to use for Crysis testing atm. I might
use the same settings as toms' old reviews so results are comparable.

 
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Most welcome! 760s do show up on eBay though, might not cost as much as you'd think.

Btw, what speed is your CPU set to? If it's only still at 2.4GHz, that may be a bottleneck
to some extent once the gfx is upgraded. You should be able to overclock the Q6600 to
a decent degree if it's a G0 stepping (SPEC code would be SLACR), though it's easier and
more potent with a Q9xxx series chip. I bagged a QX9650 for a good price. Beyond a
certain point though, don't spend too much upgrading the base platform, as it'd be
cheaper just to replace the whole lot.

Hmm, is there a standalone FC3 benchmark one can download?

Ian.

 
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My CPU still runs at 2.4GHz, I have some option on my mobo which automatically overclocks it 5%( can be set to 20%) I recently added new thermal paste onto my cpu because it was overheating.. Ill add a printscreen for my temps. I don't understand ur whole post tho i

You should be able to overclock the Q6600 to
a decent degree if it's a G0 stepping (SPEC code would be SLACR), though it's easier and
more potent with a Q9xxx series chip//

standalone FC3 benchmark

I don't really know what you mean with this, could you please explain this abit :S

http://nl.tinypic.com/r/k145xu/8
 
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Apologies, your choice of CPU and motherboard led me to assume
too much. I will try and explain, so bare with me.

Firstly, what cooler are you using for your CPU? Is it the
stock Intel cooler that came with the CPU? Or some kind of
after market cooler such as a Thermalright U120 Extreme? (TRUE
for short) The stock Intel cooler only does the basic minimum
required to cool the CPU, as long as the CPU is run within its
normal specification (ie. not overclocked). If you overclock
the CPU even by a small amount, the stock Intel cooler will
not be able to cope - you need something better, of which
there are numerous choices.

Some time after a CPU is first launched (usually a few months
at least), Intel will often release an updated version which,
although functionally the same, benefits from manufacturing
improvements, minor bug fixes, changes to power circuitry and
other things. These different versions of a CPU are called
steppings (in the case of the Q6600, there is the original B3
stepping, while the updated version is the G0 stepping). Such
changes usually mean the newer version of the CPU uses less
power and is more stable when overclocked (often at lower
voltages), ie. it can reach higher overclocked speeds.

Every Intel CPU has a unique 5-character code called its SPEC
code. The B3 stepping of the Q6600 has the code SL9UM, while
the G0 stepping has the code SLACR. In general, it's much
easier to overclock the G0 (SLACR) edition of the Q6600, hence
this version is more sought after on eBay.

You can check the stepping of your CPU by running up CPU-Z;
the panel will show which version it is.

If you check reviews of the G0 editiong of the Q6600, many
people had no problem forcing the clock speed up from the
default 2.4GHz to 3.5GHz or more. However, overclocking a S775
motherboard like your's does require a degree of skill.

Assuming one is successful at forcing the CPU to operate at a
higher speed than normal, this will speedup those games which
rely on CPU power a lot to run a game. For a CPU like the
Q6600, if one uses it to drive a powerful gfx card like the
760, the extent to which the system can exploit the potential
speed of the card will be limited by how well the CPU can feed
the gfx system with data. At stock speed, with a 760, some
games will not run as fast as they could if the CPU was
running at a higher clock speed. It depends on the game, the
resolution used, degree of detail, etc. Some games depend
greatly on CPU performance (such as X3TC), some need a
reasonable amount (eg. Stalker, Crysis), and some run
perfectly ok even with a more basic CPU (eg. Call of Juarez).
One has to consult game reviews to find out if a specific game
does depend greatly on CPU performance.

Concerning your system, I would say the following:

- If you've not done much overclocking before, I'm not sure
it's worth investing the time & effort into trying to do so,
because the overall process is not that easy with the S775
platform and a CPU like the Q6600. And don't even try to
overclock your system if the CPU is only being cooled with the
stock Intel CPU cooler.

- If you do want to overclock your CPU properly, there are
numerous S775 overclocking guides on the net, but don't expect
overnight results. It takes time to learn how to overclock a
system safely and with minimal risk. The degree to which a CPU
can be overclocked depends on how well the cooling system can
cope with the extra heat generated by the CPU running faster
than normal with a higher voltage. Also remember that it's
important to keep the motherboard chipset components cool
aswell, and often these items may require their relevant
voltage levels to be adjusted too.

- I recommend avoiding the automatic overclock options
included in motherboard BIOS setups. These automated systems
tend to result in overly high voltage levels, ie. too much heat.

- If you do not overclock your CPU, then upgrading the gfx to
a GTX 760 will absolutely make a difference in some games
(probably most), especially in certain cases where the CPU is
not holding back the game's frame rate. For other games, the
speedup might be less than you'd expect.

- Beyond a certain point with a platform as old as S775, it's
not worth expending the time & effort needed to obtain a good
overclock with a system. Newer chipsets & motherboard
platforms are much easier to overclock, eg. P67/Z68 and
basically anything after that; I've dealt a lot with Z68
boards, some models are so easy to overclock, it's actually a
bit boring doing it, ie. for those who get pleasure out of the
overclocking process itself, Z68 mbds are too easy, while for
those who just want faster performance for free at minimal
cost, Z68 was a dream come true, with CPUs like the i5 2500K,
i7 2600K and i7 2700K making the process of runnng a CPU at an
overclocked speed ludicrously easy (only takes me 3 minutes to
get a 2700K running at 5GHz on an ASUS Maximus IV Extreme/Z).

So, by all means upgrade your gfx to a 760, it will definitely
make a significant difference with some games, but it will be
of less benefit in other games because the relatively old
Q6600 may be holding them back (depends on the game,
resolution used, etc.)

Note that by 'standalone' I meant a benchmark demo program
that one can use to test the performance of a game in a manner
which does not require one to purchase the full game. The
Stalker COP benchmark demo is a typical example: it allows one
to run a predefined movement sequence through the game world
while monitoring the no. of frames per second (fps), but the demo
is only that, just a demo, it's not the full game (no interaction is
possible during the demo run). Other standalone benchmark demos
like this include Call of Juarez, X3TC, etc.

So, my advice would be this, assuming you are indeed new to
overclocking:

Upgrade the gfx. If you see a good speedup for your games,
that's great, and enjoy! If however the speedup is not as much
as you'd hoped, and while playing you can see the main CPU
often being maxed out, then instead of overclocking your CPU
(which will need a better cooler if you don't already have a
good one), consider replacing the whole base platform, ie.
motherboard, CPU and RAM. There are plenty of used Z68
motherboard bargains around these days, and lots of used i5
2500K or i7 2600K/2700K CPUs. On a reasonable Z68 board, a
typical cooler like the TRUE is enough to run an i7 CPU like the
2700K at 5GHz no problem (or the 2500K at similar speeds).
Thing is, even a dual-core SandyBridge or IvyBridge Pentium
on a Z68 board is likely to get more out of a GTX 760 than the
old Q6600, and CPUs like that really are cheap, eg. I recently
won a Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD5 motherboard, Pentium G840 CPU
and GSkill 8GB 2133MHz RAM as a single bundle for just 95 UKP.

Or of course if you can afford it, upgrade to something
completely new like a Z97 board. All depends on your budget. I
specialise in advising on how to get the most out of available
used parts for those who can't afford the latest & greatest.

Feel free to ask any further questions you may have! I hope
I've explained some of the issues a bit better this time. 8)

Ian.

 
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My cpu cooler, Looks identical to this one. and i couldn't find another one looking like this so i assume it is this one. http://www.zalman.com/global/product/Product_Read.php?Idx=311

CPU-Z Tells me that i have got Stepping 7 and Revision B3
So, untill i've got more money ill just try and go with an overclock and soon a GTX760
Now thanks for your explainations and tons of information, i really, really appreciate it man 😀

Edit: Do i need to replace my PSU when i will upgrade my system? Or can i just stick with the old one? (620W)
 
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Alas that's a pretty basic cooler (I have one of those, sits on a shelf gathering dust now), so don't
expect to get much of an overclock from your Q6600 with such a cooler. Something like a TRUE would
be far more effective (these days people often recommend the Hyper 212 EVO as a modern equivalent,
but I just buy used TRUE units if I can, often for as little as 10 UKP), though as you have the older
version of the Q6600 please do take care when overclocking to watch the temperatures, etc. Find
reviews of the original Q6600 B3 edition to see what typical overclock levels were possible; likewise,
search for reviews of your motherboard, you might come across one where they used the same CPU.

The overclock.net site has many relevant discussion threads on overclocking the Q6600 and S775
motherboards in general (Google is your friend), and of course there are plenty of other web sites
aswell with similar info & guides.

I'm guessing here, but you ought to be able to get around 3GHz with the B3 version, but only if
you use a better cooler. Your existing PSU should be just fine.

Here are some useful references:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2007/07/25/overclocking_intel_core_2_quad_q6600/1
http://www.behardware.com/articles/651-1/intel-core-2-quad-q6600.html
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/GPU-Redux-Can-Old-DualCores-Drive-A-Modern-Graphics-Card/


And most welcome! 8)

Ian.

PS. My previous post had some typos, etc., so I've corrected those. Sorry about that, I don't like
posting longer pieces that have typos.

 
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Well thanks man, you really helped me out :) Ill now go for an overclock on my Q6600 with a better cooler you suggested, and i will soon upgrade to a 760 :) . And if i will have the money ill just buy a complete new setup, but i think i will first upgrade my q6600 to some second hand Q9650 if it gives enough performance boost.. Thanks :)
 
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Here's a typical example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321524440704

Have to say that's somewhat more than I would normally pay or bid, though it is being sold
as new, and you could put in an offer. Needs a fan though I think, but plenty of those on
eBay (alas the model I normally use, Nanoxia Deep Silence, is rather expensive in the US).

I've used the Cooler Master Blademaster 120 PWM several times, it's a reasonable price
(see item 181515009751). One would get you started, but two would be better, especially
if you ever upgrade to a Q9K chip (just needs a PWM splitter cable to plug them both into
the same 4pin mbd CPU fan header). The system I'm using to type this reply is a 5GHz 2700K,
it has a TRUE with two Blademaster fans, works fine. They're not the quietest fans around,
but they work well, and one can always customise the fan profile, etc. to limit the max rpm and
so limit the noise.

Alternatively, there do seem to be several used Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO units on eBay US
just now, and they already come with a fan, eg. see item 121446843304 (ends today @ 1619 PDT)
and item 191351020440. Cheaper than a TRUE with 1 or 2 Blademasters of course, but a TRUE
would cool better (the EVO has four heatpipes, whereas the TRUE has six). See:

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/cooler_master_hyper_212_evo_cpu_cooler_review,12.html

The TRUE is quite some way further up the table compared to the EVO.

I guess it depends how much you want to spend prior to any complete platform switch. I don't
think it's worth going beyond something like a TRUE though, better off reserving such cash for
a newer platform and a much beefier cooler like an H80 or somesuch, so you can squeeze the
life out of a 4790K or something. ;D

There are some other EVOs listed aswell btw, I just mentioned a couple.


Re a Q9650, that would be ideal (or a QX9650, more flexible), but note you might well
find such CPUs selling for quite high amounts, because they are often some of the best
possible CPUs which were available for numerous S775 mbds. The Q9550 would also
be ok. If you come across a QX9650, make sure it has the SPEC code SLAWN (easier to
overclock). Likewise, for the Q9550, get the model with SPEC code SLB8V.

Looking at past auctions though, I think you'll find they're a bit too pricey, might be easier
instead to bag a cheapo Q6700 (slightly faster version of the Q6600, but it's already a G0
stepping, so easier to overclock). All luck of the draw of what you can find.

Just always be aware as you look for stuff to what extent the cost of upgrades
might be better reserved for a complete platform switch. I suggest making a few
notes of what a new build might cost (ie. Z97 board, reasonable CPU like the
4690K, good cooler like the H80, 8GB DDR3 @ 1866), keep that cost in mind as
you're browsing possible items to bid on.

Ian.

PS. Strange... overall there are surprisingly few items in this category on eBay US. I would have
thought the US market for this stuff would be much larger than eBay UK, but if anything it's a lot
smaller. How odd... I did check newegg and tigerdirect for all-new cooler options, couldn't see
anything that would be usefully better.

PPS. Other listings I found:

Q6700: item 251664351611.
Q9650: items 231346179045 and 271619114696.
Q9550: items 321535724039, 141423133401, 171478775276 and 131308869119.

 
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I am just gonna save up for a complete new build, but i will buy the gpu first, than i can atill use it in my current pc.
Thanks anyway for all your help
 
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Good luck with the new build!!

Btw, I finally bought a GTX 980. At standard resolutions it's typically 3X faster than a GTX 580.
At extreme resolutions (eg. Firestrike Ultra 4K), it's up to 2X faster than GTX 580 SLI, which is
very cool indeed. 8) Here are some 3DMark results (this is with a 5GHz 2700K):

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8955302
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8955326
http://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/5155297
http://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/5155300
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3206800
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3206810
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3206831

Ian.

 
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