Guestimate on how much fermi would cost?

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These are just speculations

Top end card: 512 cores, 384-bit, High clocks ------ performance between gtx295 and 5970 ---------- $599

Second Card: 448 cores, 320-bit, Moderate clocks ---- performance between 5870 and gtx295 ---------- $399

Third card: 256 cores, 256-bit, High clocks ------- performance around 5850 ------ $249
Main things IMO for HKMG is lower idle power and higher clocks both due to less leakage.

You could say lower overall power and heat, but really does anyone think either company is going to do that versus clocking them as fast as possible to satisfy the whiners who cry for doubling of performance every launch?
 
Yeah, well the idle and 2D or 3D desktop should be fine with whatever a single cluster of SPUs would be (heck really only need ~4 SPU for good aero desktop with basic 3D) probably one ROP cluster and even single PCIe lane/channel, that'd be nice for low power, but when gaming, it's gonna be as fast as they can go Go GO!
 

4745454b

Titan
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those prices are not impossible as far as the die sizes are concerned , as 512 core fermi is rumored to be 576 mm2 , exactly as big as gtx280

How could that be? It has over twice the shaders and god knows what else in there. GTX280 is on 55nm, and G300 should be 40nm. I would think it would be bigger then the GTX280.
 

IzzyCraft

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The die shrink just makes it able for them to fit more power in a given area. The size of how big they want to make that area is all up to them. Like it matters gpu's cpu's are all pretty much the size of your thumb at best the rest is interface and heatspreader.
 

4745454b

Titan
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Like it matters...

It does matter Izzy. Nvidia EOL'd their GTX series before coming out with the replacements. The die was simply to large to compete with what AMD had out. If they more then doubled their shaders, then the die will get even larger. The move to 40nm will help, as will any tweaks they make to the die. Other then that, we could see a repeat of what happened with the GT200 series. They simply have to get the die size down.
 

ironsides7

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Hiya All,

First I apoligise in advance for mistakes etc as this is my first forum that I've joined not just read, I first posted and joined about 24 hours ago posting in the one answering a question about the required Power Supply Size and Case for at least a Single HD5970 and as I understood the question it should also with the ability to run 2 HD5970s in Crossfire. I haven't found the other yet to read any replies. It will likely be 2010 or near when I can more accurately answer those questions as the 2 HD5970s I PreOrdered are supposedly not due until after Christmas.

Now to this one with my newbie questions too: I've no idea what assumptions we use?? Seems some commented there will be more than one, my understanding at least 3 with slowest a GT100. Prices about a $100 over the AMD equivalent once benchmarked seems logical but a big part being how much Nvidia can afford to lose?

One question I have is how much structure do these each have? Like since not stated it seems far more members seem to be assuming the Nvidia will arrive as a 28nm Core vs a 40nm? 40nm is what it is still currently being worked on as I'd assume, and it's already really far behind the target release date so I'd assume Nvidia is not going to wait another year? It's about a year yet when 28nm is first ready for even ramp up production rates which is a long long time to delay!! But now which it arrives as will affect pricing in at least two ways, the obvious being lower cost at 28nm along with ability to clock faster! But the biggest for the curious is what would 28nm Nvidias arrive priced against? Meaning which family of ATI cards and I assume they'd be HD6000 models!

Then be they a shrunk to 28nm they will be up against not 40nm current HD5000 cards but either even faster RV970 based HD6000 models that're mainly just an improved (more Streams etc) refined RV870 Core. Or what I read mostly is to assume it would then be arriving priced against HD6000 models with a RV970 that's finally at least a partial redesign! I've heard the 28nm RV970's are a redesign with some "limited increase of CPU ability" but with that being no where near the percentage of the Core Die devoted to "CPU" the 1/3 if the die I hear the Nvidia GT300 is supposed to have as CPU!!

After all that l hear that late in 2010 is supposed to be a 3 way race with Intel finally entering the Ring!

Hope you all had a great weekend!
 

liquidsnake718

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Hell the "decent" quadro cards on newegg cost about $789.99 and slightly above while the crazy GTX280-like quadro cards cost around $1600 so I wouldnt even suppose that the fermi card (GTX380spec as one might call it) would be even close to that price. Im thniking starting at $800 would be more like it which would be half of that the Quadro FX4800 is($1,600-1,700). They are not workstation cards, they are gaming cards with the ability to interact more with browsers, multi core cpus, apps like CUDA, Physx, and perhaps "share" gpu power virtually? (The last one im wishing).

I do wish they were Hybrid SLI though like the older 9xxxgt's and gtx's.....
 

liquidsnake718

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Interesting you mentioned that "limited increase of CPU ability" but with that being no where near the percentage of the Core Die devoted to "CPU" the 1/3 if the die I hear the Nvidia GT300 is supposed to have as CPU!! "

So you are saying that the newer GPus could actually help automatically overclock the CPus and use its cores systematically giving each one a task like one core for shaders, the other for vectors, the other core for rendering, the other for better AA and so fourth?? I like the creativity this fourm is getting at....... imaging 6 full cores with this type of GPU and a motherboard with Hybrid SLI(they should bring it back) and a great Larrabee chip to go along with 16GB of DDR3 memory and USB3.0 support and SSD speed......... the PC of the next two years....
 

Particleman529

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Well,
This is the fee structure that I have for the Fermi's:

C2050:
$1625 (Academic cost)

C2070 ~$3900 (Academic)

It's a bit more for regular schmo's. There are a number of packages where you get the presently available C1060 and upgrade - where you either keep the C1060, or, you trade up.

Those are for the cards. For the S1070, S2050, and S2070, they run $7995 / $8995 / $22900, respectively with tradeups of the S1070 card. Again, there are all sorts of trade up combinations, depending upon dealers.
Regards,
Particleman529
 

ironsides7

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That Quote pertained to the expected CPU capability of next years ATI RV970, which will have a little more "CPU" in them than the HD5000 (RV870) family. The Nvidia Fermi GT300 (if we ever see one) is the one about 1B of 3B devoted to "CPU" which now is considered too much for a "Graphic" chip.

Dane
 

liquidsnake718

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Comon man, you know very truly well that Nvidia will NEVER price a NEW gpu much less a promising one with new technology and DX11 features, at the same price of the direct competition. In this case the 5870 and the 5850. Their GT180 or gt160(if that is truly their product names) will not be equivalent to the 5870=gt180.... Nvidia always overprices and usually prices their gpus above Ati's exact competing card. Its their branding strategy and image. It is to make the average fanboy, pc builder think that Nvidia has a slight premium and quality advantage over Ati.... Its psychological marketingand for 5 different generations, I believed and actually bought 5 different Nvidia cards. That is until the greatly prices 5850's came along and smashed not only Nvidias GTX285, but even the GTX295 in certain games!! The price? $260, priceless..... I mean comon, the GTX285 is still sub$300!!!
 

liquidsnake718

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No no no no, I truly have to admit, as sad as it is for me to say I have actually bought a Sapphire 5850 to replace my 9800gtx+..... The 5850 is a beast and can play Crysis on Very High settings and 2x AA with 35plus fps on my PC and it works great, blah blah..... I do have to say, even my older, (come to think of it, way much older g92 architecture) 9800gtx+ felt and came out better in terms of Physics due to PhysX. I will tell you that upon throwing barrels, koreans, shooting trees, turtles, birds, and water, Crysis with PhysX is much better. This is comparing a 9800gtx+ to a 5850!!!!! Unfortunatly Toms and other websites do not compare physics, lighting, color palets, shadows, shaders, textures, fluidity, bump mapping, or whatever in terms of small details in their comparison charts understandably because there would be too much to report and differentiate.

However if you have two PCs or if you change your GPU and compare these details like physics, color, you will see that Nvidia does however have a better physics system. I can swear by this as you can feel the difference in the game. That is once positive thing that a beautiful game like crysis can give gamers and testers, its programming and use of physics, cpu's gpu power and AA....
 
G

Guest

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You should stick that 9800gtx+ back in your pc and see how it runs on very high settings. Then play it the way you used to play it.

You will quickly conclude that PhysX is a total gimmick and you would never pass up higher quality settings and fps in preference to it.
 

liquidsnake718

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even though these may be specs, i suppose these numbers are realistic, perhaps +$100 for the gf of gt180 variant leaving it likely to be $699. Heck the 8800gtX and the 8800Ultra was $699-799 when it first came out in 2006 for the enthuiasts that bought this card, they can tell you how good that card was as we can see incarnations of this card(not the exact same but close) in the GTS250 still being sold and used today......
 
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