Build Advice Guidance on a small build ?

[james211]

I'm looking to build a small machine for Autodesk Fusion 360. The only two requirements I have are that I want it to run a Nvidia RTX A2000, and I'd prefer to have a minimum of 64GB of RAM. I'm unsure as to whether or not to go Intel or AMD, if anyone has any insights on that let me know. Generally speaking I'm an Apple guy, but I can't get what I want in an apple product. If you know of a good build on here you can point me to, that would be great, if not, I'll take any recommendations you can offer.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

something like this?

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7700X 4.5 GHz 8-Core Processor ($291.60 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Phantom Spirit 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($37.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B650M AORUS ELITE AX Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard ($179.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Flare X5 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Acer Predator GM7000 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY RTX A-Series RTX A2000 12GB 12 GB Video Card ($609.99 @ B&H)
Case: Asus Prime AP201 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($64.99 @ B&H)
Power Supply: Corsair RM750e (2023) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($78.98 @ Amazon)
Case Fan: ARCTIC F12 53 CFM 120 mm Fans 5-Pack ($10.17 @ MemoryC)
Total: $1598.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-02-23 06:42 EST-0500

 

[james211]

That was fast! What are your thoughts on AMD vs Intel?

 

[kanewolf]

That was fast! What are your thoughts on AMD vs Intel?

Main thought is that AMD will have a chance for a CPU generational upgrade in the future. Intel won't. Intel is almost always a motherboard replacement for a generational CPU upgrade.

 

[james211]

Interesting...so if I'm reading this right, you're saying I can upgrade an AMD CPU without upgrading the motherboard...correct?

 

[geofelt]

I am reluctant to offer suggestions until I know more about your needs.
Do you have a budget?

When you say small, what do you mean?
Is there a physical size restriction or what?

At any price point, you will find that amd and intel offerings are not very different.

How strong does your processor need to be?
The app suggests for a processor

3 GHz or greater, 6 or more cores

That really could be anything.
From your knowledge of how the app operates, can it usefully use as many processing threads as available,
Or, is it more of a simulation type app that depends more on strong single thread performance.

 

[Eximo]

That should work out with AMD yes, this socket is brand new. AMD had 4 generations of CPU on the last socket.

Intel has broken their mold a little and had three with the current socket, but it is end of life.

As for Fusion 360, apparently single core performance is still ideal, which would lean towards an Intel chip with its very high clock speeds. But, yes in a generation or two AMD will be faster and you would then not need to replace the motherboard

 

[geofelt]

Interesting...so if I'm reading this right, you're saying I can upgrade an AMD CPU without upgrading the motherboard...correct?

That is true for both Intel and AMD.
As a practical matter, most large cpu upgrades are accompanied by a motherboard change.
New generation processors come out as incremental upgrades, offering, typically 15% price/performance boosts.

 

[kanewolf]

Interesting...so if I'm reading this right, you're saying I can upgrade an AMD CPU without upgrading the motherboard...correct?

That has been true in the past, more for AMD than Intel. AMD has said that the next gen "Zen5" CPU will continue to use AM5 socket. So there is one promised generational CPU upgrade.

 

[james211]

That should work out with AMD yes, this socket is brand new. AMD had 4 generations of CPU on the last socket.

Intel has broken their mold a little and had three with the current socket, but it is end of life.

As for Fusion 360, apparently single core performance is still ideal, which would lean towards an Intel chip with its very high clock speeds. But, yes in a generation or two AMD will be faster and you would then not need to replace the motherboard

Fusion runs surprisingly well on my Mac M1, but the GPU side is where I'm struggling the most. Additionally Autodesk has plugins that only run on the PC version of the software so thats another thing. If I was doing a lot of rendering I would take a different approach to this.

 

[geofelt]

One way to evaluate processors is to look up the passmark ratings.
For example, the Apple M1 has 8 processing threads, and a passmark rating of 14186.
That is when all 8 threads are fully busy.
The single thread rating i a very good 3705:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Apple+M1+8+Core+3200+MHz&id=4104
The $300 R7-7700X rating is:
R7-7700X 16 36513/4279
A very similar$300 I5-14600K is:
I5-14600K 20 40394/4294
Currently, the strongest AM5 upgrade is a $550 R9-7950X
R9-7950x 32 63418/4312
The strongest lga1700 upgrade is the similarly priced I9-14900K
I9-14900K 32 60672/4758

I follow these forums and I find that those with amd recommend amd solutions and those with Intel recommend Intel.
I am in the Intel camp.
I try to provide both sides of this particular argument.
I see more issues with amd, particularly with ram compatibility.
Perhaps because the AM5 platform is new.
AMD depends very much on fast ram for performance.
Intel processors do not depend on fast ram for performance.

 

[Eximo]

All my experience with Autodesk products, PTC Creo, Solidworks, etc was with Intel / Nvidia systems. Prior to that those engineers used Sun Workstations if you can believe that. (Newer engineers wanted the newer tools. Pro Engineer is the OG CAD tool, and Sun wasn't exactly into making workstations any longer) Also used Intel HEDT chips and full size Quadro (s).

I did some digging on Fusion 360 for 13th/14th gen and Ryzen 7000, couldn't really find anything conclusive. Mostly anecdotal.

X3D chips are probably not ideal due to the low clock speeds. I would opt for the 14700K, just to save a buck. In a small form factor system it wouldn't be ideal either. Ryzen 7700 non-X might make more sense or a 14700 non-K.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

the 7700X is not that hot compared to an unlocked 14700k. especially so when the cpu is not stressed with rendering. both pull about the same power and have about similar temps when not utilised fully.

I think the GPU is the main bottleneck here like the OP said previously.

So with that in mind, considering the price of 7700/X and that a big after market cooler is kinda needed in a small enclosure, i suggested the 7700X.

And with upgradability in mind, AM5 is the better option for me.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

That is true for both Intel and AMD.
As a practical matter, most large cpu upgrades are accompanied by a motherboard change.
New generation processors come out as incremental upgrades, offering, typically 15% price/performance boosts.

Maybe for the LGA 1851 / 15th gen. LGA1700 is kinda EoF...

 

[Eximo]

You can also force eco mode on the 7700X, so not a bad choice at all.

Future Ryzen 8700 or 9700 would certainly be interesting.

 

[james211]

Also, I'm not doing extremely intense builds, a few pcb's per year, virtually no mechanical builds, almost all generative designs for 3D printing.

 

[james211]

Not to side step any of the opinions, but what are your thoughts on this build? I can get this brand new for around $1500.

Lenovo ThinkStation P3 Ultra Small Form Factor Workstation

• Processor : 13th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-13700 vPro® Processor (E-cores up to 4.10 GHz P-cores up to 5.10 GHz)
• Operating System : Windows 11 Pro 64
• Graphic Card : NVIDIA® RTX™ A2000 12GB GDDR6
• Memory : 64 GB DDR5-4000MHz (SODIMM) - (2 x 32 GB)
• Storage : 1 TB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 Performance TLC Opal
• AC Adapter / Power Supply : 300W
• Pointing Device : USB Optical Mouse
• Keyboard : USB, Traditional, Black - English (US)
• Networking : Integrated Ethernet
• Wireless : Intel® Wi-Fi 6E AX211 2x2 AX vPro® & Bluetooth® 5.1 or above
• Warranty : 3 Years On-site

 

[geofelt]

Looks to me to be a very nice unit in a small package.

Lenovo is constantly having sales, some of which we may not be aware of.
In the past, I contacted a lenovo salesman directly and got a sale that was not apparent on the web site.
Wouldn't hurt to call.

 

[james211]

This is through an employee discount program I have access to.

 

[geofelt]

This is through an employee discount program I have access to.

I used to work for IBM and had an employee discount.
Call on the discount line, you may get a still better deal.
The RTX2000 may make dealing difficult.