Haswell vs Skylake

[Will Fantom]

I plan on building a new PC for around september this year. Skylake CPU's and Motherboards are apparently being released in August and it sounds tempting to go for. I was looking at spending about £1000 ($1600) and getting an i7-4790k. Would it be worth going for Skylake or would the performance boost from it cost too much?

 

[bicycle_repair_man]

If you can wait for Skylake then you might as well, particularly as it will be using a new socket and prices for Haswell will no doubt drop as a result.

What do you want the PC for?

 

[Will Fantom]

If you can wait for Skylake then you might as well, particularly as it will be using a new socket and prices for Haswell will no doubt drop as a result.

What do you want the PC for?

I plan on using it for software development and playing games. I currently use an i5-4670 with the Z87 chipset but I didn't go for a `k` version at the time so any issues I have with my CPU, I'm stuck with till I upgrade.

I just feel that if I go for the 4790k I'll be tied into an old socket limiting upgradeability.

 

[Nextg_Rival]

There's a pattern in the different generations of intel CPUs - every next generation incrementally gains 10% more performance. Just like how Ivy bridge was 10% more powerful than Sandy bridge, and how Haswell was 10% more powerful than Ivy Bridge, my guess is that Skylake will be about 10% more powerful than Haswell - a negligible improvement (Broadwell kind of focused on mobile CPUs, so there's barely a difference in performance as far as I know).

 

[bicycle_repair_man]

I just feel that if I go for the 4790k I'll be tied into an old socket limiting upgradeability.

My thoughts exactly.

Your current processor is still fine for gaming. I can't speak for development, but I'd imagine that compiling code would be a heavily multi-threaded task.

Another processor to consider is the Xeon E3 series. It can't be overclocked and it doesn't have integrated graphics, but it's still quad-core with Hyper Threading and represents very good value for money.

 

[jaguarskx]

There's a pattern in the different generations of intel CPUs - every next generation incrementally gains 10% more performance. Just like how Ivy bridge was 10% more powerful than Sandy bridge, and how Haswell was 10% more powerful than Ivy Bridge, my guess is that Skylake will be about 10% more powerful than Haswell - a negligible improvement (Broadwell kind of focused on mobile CPUs, so there's barely a difference in performance as far as I know).

Actually, the last time Intel had a double digit performance increase was with Sandy Bridge; it had a 12% average performance increase over Lynnfield. Ivy Bridge was 6%, Haswell was another 6% and Broadwell was 4%.

 

[fatgangsta]

Nice to know this cos i am in the same boat if i should stick with the 5930K or wait for Skylake

 

[Will Fantom]

Another processor to consider is the Xeon E3 series. It can't be overclocked and it doesn't have integrated graphics, but it's still quad-core with Hyper Threading and represents very good value for money.

That's a good shout! However, I did initially plan on OCing the 4790k to about 4.5/4.6 and it doesn't look like Xeon's get too close on performance/core, especially when overclocking. (Also fatgangsta, the 5930K doesn't seem too great if you're planning of OCing, and DDR4 won't be a massive boost for you either).

From rumours floating around, Skylake looks to a fair jump up. Does anybody think software/games will, within the next 3-5 years, require (or recommend)DDR4 and a skylake CPU?

 

[fatgangsta]

Thing is for most people is cost vs performance and with the set up i am going 5930K 980Ti Hybrid would it be any better only time will tell

 

[synphul]

Games will probably start recommending skylake, they always recommend the latest tech. Helps to drive the consumer hardware market. Doubtful there will be much difference between ddr4 and ddr3 just like there wasn't a lot of difference between ddr2 and ddr3. The only reason I upgraded my ram was a forced platform requirement.

I wouldn't count on skylake dropping haswell prices, intel's cpu's don't 'discount'. If anything they fluctuate $5-10, may have an odd sale and as they become out of production and harder to find, prices only go up. Skylake's desktop 100 series platforms and cpu's should be out sooner than later but the skylake replacement for x99 likely won't be for some time.

 

[jaguarskx]

Games will probably start recommending skylake, they always recommend the latest tech. Helps to drive the consumer hardware market. Doubtful there will be much difference between ddr4 and ddr3 just like there wasn't a lot of difference between ddr2 and ddr3. The only reason I upgraded my ram was a forced platform requirement.

When DDR3 was initially introduced it had pretty bad memory timings which affected it's performance against DDR2 RAM; some would say abysmal timings. Also, DDR3 RAM was initially operated at relatively low frequencies compared to today.

While DDR4 performance may initially provide a lackluster performance increase compared to DDR3, over time the performance difference will likely increase especially as the new memory controller matures and faster DDR4 RAM is offered.

 

[synphul]

It's a little hard to find decent comparisons since one version of ram to another is typically a different platform. The closest test comparisons usually happen on the cusp of a new ram standard, so yes it's often compared in its' earlier stages. For a small handful of memory intensive scenarios I'm sure it matters, and of course synthetic benchmarks always show large differences whether it be cpu's, ram or what have that just don't exist in the vast majority of real world applications.

ddr2 and ddr3
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1782/amd_phenom_ii_ddr2_vs_ddr3_performance/index11.html

http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-p35-chipset-ddr2-versus-ddr3-memory_511/5

ddr3 vs ddr4

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8959/ddr4-haswell-e-scaling-review-2133-to-3200-with-gskill-corsair-adata-and-crucial/8

Not saying there's any reason to attempt to downgrade, purposely choose ddr3 over ddr4 and 99% of the time the platform is going to dictate the ram used anyway so it doesn't make much difference. A lot of excitement and buzz just like there was when the standards changed the last time and the real world benefits are all but non existent. Biggest reason to choose one standard over another is because it's whatever works in the motherboard.

 

[Nextg_Rival]

Nice to know this cos i am in the same boat if i should stick with the 5930K or wait for Skylake

If you have the i7 5930K I doubt you'll need to upgrade in the next 10 years anyway.

 

[fatgangsta]

No that's what i plan to get because the X isn't that great and the price is to insane anyway i have a i5 2500k so i guess any processor is an upgrade but still rather have something that up to date as possible

 

[Nextg_Rival]

The 5930K actually beats the 5960X in multiple categories - the only thing the 5960X has that the 5930K doesn't are 4 extra threads that would be good for rendering, but for gaming the 5930K is actually better. You can overclock it which would make it even more powerful too. As to the i5 2500K, especially when you overclock it it will perform just as good as the current i5 king, the 4960K. In other words, you can still go a couple more years with the i5 2500K if you boost its power to the stable maximum.

 

[Pyre]

Skylake will not be a stepping stone, its going to be 10% or less difference to haswell. Even the ivybridge series will still be good enough. Haswell vs Skylake is a no go since the differences will be very minor.

 

[fatgangsta]

I guess as long as I'm up to date and the price is more same as this generations processors and a power boost then all is good

 

[bicycle_repair_man]

From rumours floating around, Skylake looks to a fair jump up. Does anybody think software/games will, within the next 3-5 years, require (or recommend)DDR4 and a skylake CPU?

Recommend perhaps, but not require, and even then it would be for very particular cases, such as VR. Haswell will still be a highly capable processor just like Sandy Bridge is today.

I've typically upgraded every second generation of processor, but because the gains have been so minor lately, I don't see myself upgrading from my 2500K anytime soon. It's been in my build for nearly four years now.

 

[Nextg_Rival]

The 2500K is a killer, I think that I might even include it in a future rig I make in the next 1-2 years if I get the money and the prices are old. It's sad that the industry is kind of dead - AMD can't progress at all, Intel don't want to progress because selling CPUs with minor improvements already makes them more than enough money, AMD ATI and NVidia are both rebranding video cards instead of creating new products, with NVidia lowering their performance and boosting their prices on purpose... Old components seem like the name of the game for the next several years, at the very least.

 

[g-unit1111]

If you can wait for Skylake then you might as well, particularly as it will be using a new socket and prices for Haswell will no doubt drop as a result.

What do you want the PC for?

Asrock and EVGA just showed a bunch of new motherboards using Intel's new Z170 chipset at Computex: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/computex-day-two-news-roundup,29293.html

It looks promising. Supposedly August is when the new Skylake chips are supposed to be out.

 

[fatgangsta]

Thanks for that i'm like a kid near to Christmas and saving up for my shiny new stuff

 

[fatgangsta]

Also if we can keep this thread going might help us make the time go faster well it will help me anyway

 

[g-unit1111]

Thanks for that i'm like a kid near to Christmas and saving up for my shiny new stuff

Computex is pretty much Christmas for system builders. :lol:

I don't know if I'm going to go with Skylake, I'll stick to Haswell until it's necessary to upgrade. I probably will throw in a USB Type C card to keep up with current technology.

 

[Dry Bones]

Do not bet on prices doing down for previous gen Intel cpus with the release of the next gen. Only thing that flourishes is the used market with amount of previous gen stuff to sell yet the prices remain way too close to the new gen gear. As others have mention, the performance "upgrade" will very likely not be worth the extra cost of a new mobo + cpu.(& possibly OS) I'm not sure what would "software development" require, but that i5 you have should be good enough. If not, I would just upgrade to an i7k and OC to your hearth's content.

Heck, if I had bought an i5 19 months ago, instead of an i3, I would not see a need to upgrade cpu or motherboard for the next 5-6 years. Sadly, that was not the case. Instead, I've been trying to find a decent, used i5-3470 for less than 150(USD) and it's a pain. Specially when considering that I can get an i5-4590 for 160USD or i5-4690k for 200USD. Overall, considering the cost in my case I don't know if going from an i3 ivy bridge to and i5 skylake would be better perfomance/dollar compare to just upgrade to an i5 ivy.

 

[g-unit1111]

Do not bet on prices doing down for previous gen Intel cpus with the release of the next gen. Only thing that flourishes is the used market with amount of previous gen stuff to sell yet the prices remain way too close to the new gen gear. As others have mention, the performance "upgrade" will very likely not be worth the extra cost of a new mobo + cpu.(& possibly OS) I'm not sure what would "software development" require, but that i5 you have should be good enough. If not, I would just upgrade to an i7k and OC to your hearth's content.

Yeah absolutely. CPUs don't depreciate in value the way that GPUs do. I mean you can still find LGA 1366 CPUs going for $400 new and $350 on eBay. I've even seen Core 2 Quads going for ~$300. So yeah I wouldn't expect prices to drop on the current generation at all.