Question Have I ripped myself off?

Mar 29, 2019
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No vulgarity
I just bought this system for £200

AMD FX 4300 Processor - Quad-core - 3.8 GHz - 4 MB cache
GTX 960 2GB
8GB ram
1TB HDD
windows 10 64
devastator II ------- keyboard+mouse
22" hdmi moniter
500w PSU

3 month old system

mod edit: watch the language
 
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Math Geek

Glorious
Herald
$100 for windows and $100 for a 960 leaves the rest as freebies. so even though they are old parts, they were still basically free. the monitor is likely another $100 as well. so even if you simply reuse those parts, then you still did pretty good.
 
Mar 27, 2019
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I just bought this system for £200

AMD FX 4300 Processor - Quad-core - 3.8 GHz - 4 MB cache
GTX 960 2GB
8GB ram
1TB HDD
windows 10 64
devastator II shitty keyboard+mouse
22" hdmi moniter
500w PSU

3 month old system
No Man that's a great deal. You should be able to play a lot of eSports and older games at 1080p 60+fps. Plus normal tasks such as web browsing and media use will be great. If you were to build your own budget gaming PC right now and got the best deals you would end up spending at least $500, probably more after keyboard/mouse, monitor etc. and the build you just bought is probably at least 60% of the power of a brand new budget gaming PC for less than half the price. Save up for a new graphics card, putting a RTX 2060 (or even used GTX 1080) in there will make it awesome, you can upgrade the MOBO/RAM/CPU later, I would hold off on adding more ddr3 ram... It might be tempting to get 16gb but at the end of the day you will probably be upgrading to ddr4 eventually, but if you can find a cheap deal on ddr3, that could be useful, you may notice your web browsing experience and gaming experience benefit from the RAM increase.
 
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Mar 27, 2019
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Highly doubt that. 2060 is too much for FX4300.
Well I can promise you that the weakest link in that build for gaming is the GPU. So if he wants to upgrade anything what would you suggest Sherlock? Throwing away half the PC and spending $350+ on a CPU/RAM/MOBO upgrade and sticking with the GTX 960? or Spending $200 on a used card that is hardly less obsolete? when you can get a brand new RTX 2060 for $350 that will allow him to maximize what he already has and be relevant for 5 more years (gpu wise)! I was just trying to offer him some constructive advice and you are just trying to start an argument and frankly Sir, I HIGHLY DOUBT you put much thought into your comment.
 
Mar 27, 2019
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No personal attacks
Highly doubt that. 2060 is too much for FX4300.
LOL coming from the guy who has a 1080ti on a nearly decade old i7 playing at 144hz 1440p and you question me telling him to put a new GPU on an old cpu? Either you don't follow your own advice or you want to offer bad advice.
 

maziech

Upstanding
Feb 18, 2019
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LOL coming from the guy who has a 1080ti on a nearly decade old i7 playing at 144hz 1440p and you question me telling him to put a new GPU on an old cpu? Either you don't follow your own advice or you want to offer bad advice.
Your comment with personal trip towards me is beyond any acceptance, so i just let it be.
 

Math Geek

Glorious
Herald
that's what i was gonna add. whether you are correct or not gets overshadowed real quick @THpapi when you start turning things into a personal attack. though it is rather mild, it is still unacceptable here at Tom's. There are many ways to correct someone or point out bad information without getting into personal attacks. You are new here so let me say Welcome to Tom's Hardware and please feel free to help out where you can. :D

but do please try to be a bit more considerate when doing so. we all have things to learn and things we know that we can share but it is necessary to do it in a considerate manner.

Thanks
 
Reactions: Rogue Leader
Mar 27, 2019
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I'm really sorry guys if I offended anyone. I'm not trying to insult or fight, I want to be constructive as possible. I apologize. In the interest of offering OP some help with his new system I suggested upgrading GPU. The other poster criticized my idea with little to no substance or reason or explanation. I then pointed out his evident hypocrisy, because they currently are using an old CPU with a much newer GPU. So without being insulting, with all due respect, can I be offered a reason why my idea is considered bad by maziech, but they themself play games with an old CPU and a newer GPU.
 
Mar 27, 2019
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I apologize I don't know the rules, let me try again: why is a new GPU paired with an old CPU a bad idea? I hear there are people doing it these days....
 

Math Geek

Glorious
Herald
it's ok. no ones mad at you :)

just pointed out there are other ways to say it. i actually agree with you and have no issues mixing new gpu's with old cpu's. makes sense to me and i don't believe it hurts anything. true you may not get 100% out of the new gpu but it still allows for better resolution and some eye candy to be enabled which is not as cpu dependent. using an older cpu with 1440p makes a lot of sense.

and it is also true that the older cpu at 1080p is not as good of an idea. this puts more on the cpu which is already lacking in power compared to newer ones.

most of the time i just explain my position better rather than diving into a response from someone else. when you are right, normally someone else comes along to back it up and the OP quickly sees the better answer to accept.

i'm also not saying @mexiech is coming out of nowhere with nonsense information. but there is some qualifying info that does need to be added to make his answer valid. you could simply ask him for that information to clarify where he is coming form. we often leave out info we think is common knowledge but may not be. so asking for more/clarifying info can fill in the gaps so we all can understand.

and finally, not to beat a dead horse, but other times there may be differing opinions that are both valid and the OP gets to decide what to go with. explain your side and then let it go. at least acknowledge "there are 2 opinions and this is why i go with mine over that one" and then it stay at that. answer any follow questions from the op if needed but avoid the "i'm better and your an idiot" way of handling it.

but again i do agree that throwing in a better gpu if desired is not a terrible idea under the right circumstances.
 

maziech

Upstanding
Feb 18, 2019
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Okay @THpapi, i'll grant Your wish and will give You a reason/explanation both about Your advice (which wasn't the best) and about my personal setup.

1)
* FX4300 is outdated CPU with only 4 cores/4 threads, that is not able to deliver enough calculations for GPU like 1080/2060. To simplify, CPU will work on 100% load most of the time, while You will use only about 50% of GPU potential in 1080p. CPU has limited framerates it can deliver in 1 sec of play.
To show You what i mean, take a look at this videao on YouTube, with hardware usage stats. As You can see, GPU is being used only in 50%, while the FX6300 (which is faster than 4300) struggles to keep up without success. There will be no difference if You put there RTX2080ti / GTX 1080 or GTX 1060, because CPU is too slow.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUOQvFFs7A


2) About my personal setup.
  • My CPU is overclocked to 4.6ghz and has 8 threads instead of 4 so it's better for modern games, that use more cores/threads.
  • I play at 2K at ultra details, which puts much more load on my GPU than 1080p resolution. That means i will drain my GPU potential before CPU bottlenecks at 100% usage.
  • yes, 2600K is pretty outdated, but still decent, especially overclocked. It is more than enough to handle GTX1080ti in most games at 2K resolution because of that.
  • it is true, that it sometimes bottlenecks, especially in more CPU-demanding games, but it still delivers decent gameplay above 60FPS, so i don't care
-I bought my gtx, cuz i wanted to switch to ryzen 3rd generation soon. Now i see, that probably there is no need and i'm perfectly fine with what i have, while i mostly play games.
-Of course it would be faster with 9900K/9700K or anything new, but if You consider 2K or 4K it is almost the same performance most of the time, because GPU is on full load. My CPU load is for example 80%, 9700K's would be probably 35%. So i gain additional FPS only in lowest 1% of performance, at locations when CPU is extremely loaded. Else, it's just few fps from higher CPU performance.

So... If i wanted to play at 1080p with the GTX1080ti, it would be pretty sad, cuz GPU would easily outperform this processor, but I'm pretty fine in 2K. You can watch a movie on YT, where this is explained pretty well:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dHCQOt5Nns&t=171s


To simplify, think of CPU as something that can always deliver constant amount of FPS , regardless of resolution. Now, for higher resolution, You need faster card, to make a good match with the CPU. It's about balance between those two.
Let's say FX4300 can deliver 45 fps in some game. Both GTX1060 and 1080 are able to draw those frames with that speed. Then You gain nothing from having 1080. This is the case with FX4300 and 2060. You could achieve the same performance with 1060 cuz of CPU bottleneck.

This is a great forum and we all learn things here. I got a few lessons for a bad advice as well. Your help is always appreciated, but You need some knowledge, before You start helping others. There's plenty of materials on YouTube, other forums and articles, where You can learn from. Before You write something, that You are not sure of, check twice.

Enjoy the evening.
 
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Mar 27, 2019
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Okay @THpapi, i'll grant Your wish and will give You a reason/explanation both about Your advice (which wasn't the best) and about my personal setup.

1)
* FX4300 is outdated CPU with only 4 cores/4 threads, that is not able to deliver enough calculations for GPU like 1080/2060. To simplify, CPU will work on 100% load most of the time, while You will use only about 50% of GPU potential in 1080p. CPU has limited framerates it can deliver in 1 sec of play.
To show You what i mean, take a look at this videao on YouTube, with hardware usage stats. As You can see, GPU is being used only in 50%, while the FX6300 (which is faster than 4300) struggles to keep up without success. There will be no difference if You put there RTX2080ti / GTX 1080 or GTX 1060, because CPU is too slow.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWUOQvFFs7A


2) About my personal setup.
  • My CPU is overclocked to 4.6ghz and has 8 threads instead of 4 so it's better for modern games, that use more cores/threads.
  • I play at 2K at ultra details, which puts much more load on my GPU than 1080p resolution. That means i will drain my GPU potential before CPU bottlenecks at 100% usage.
  • yes, 2600K is pretty outdated, but still decent, especially overclocked. It is more than enough to handle GTX1080ti in most games at 2K resolution because of that.
  • it is true, that it sometimes bottlenecks, especially in more CPU-demanding games, but it still delivers decent gameplay above 60FPS, so i don't care
-I bought my gtx, cuz i wanted to switch to ryzen 3rd generation soon. Now i see, that probably there is no need and i'm perfectly fine with what i have, while i mostly play games.
-Of course it would be faster with 9900K/9700K or anything new, but if You consider 2K or 4K it is almost the same performance most of the time, because GPU is on full load. My CPU load is for example 80%, 9700K's would be probably 35%. So i gain additional FPS only in lowest 1% of performance, at locations when CPU is extremely loaded. Else, it's just few fps from higher CPU performance.

So... If i wanted to play at 1080p with the GTX1080ti, it would be pretty sad, cuz GPU would easily outperform this processor, but I'm pretty fine in 2K. You can watch a movie on YT, where this is explained pretty well:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dHCQOt5Nns&t=171s


To simplify, think of CPU as something that can always deliver constant amount of FPS per second, regardless of resolution. Now, for higher resolution, You need faster card, to make a good match with the CPU. It's about balance between those two.
Let's say FX4300 can deliver 45 fps in some game. Both GTX1060 and 1080 are able to draw those frames with that speed. Then You gain nothing from having 1080. This is the case with FX4300 and 2060. You could achieve the same performance with 1060 cuz of CPU bottleneck.

This is a great forum and we all learn things here. I got a few lessons for a bad advice as well. Your help is always appreciated, but You need some knowledge, before You start helping others. There's plenty of materials on YouTube, other forums and articles, where You can learn from. Before You write something, that You are not sure of, check twice.

Enjoy the evening.
[/QUOTE
I appreciate your response, that is a lot of really good information. Now maybe you can help me learn; what advice would you give to OP to improve his experience with his most recent purchase?
 

Math Geek

Glorious
Herald
we assume gaming as the purpose cause that's just the way we are 😎

but that would be a good question to ask as well. for gaming i personally would say get what you can out of it and have fun. turn down settings where needed and see what it can do. i have an old q6600 system with an r9-270 and the kids don't complain at all. they play all kinds of games on it and know they need to drop some settings here and there if they want it to run well. when they buy some new parts, i'll be happy to upgrade it for them.

esports would run fine on that system. what would likely bog down would be those MOBA type games where you get 50 people running around. that'll choke a high end cpu out. a 4300 won't stand a chance there. nor will my q6600 either and about the only time the kids get a shot at my system is for some occasional MOBA action.
 
Mar 27, 2019
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we assume gaming as the purpose cause that's just the way we are 😎

but that would be a good question to ask as well. for gaming i personally would say get what you can out of it and have fun. turn down settings where needed and see what it can do. i have an old q6600 system with an r9-270 and the kids don't complain at all. they play all kinds of games on it and know they need to drop some settings here and there if they want it to run well. when they buy some new parts, i'll be happy to upgrade it for them.

esports would run fine on that system. what would likely bog down would be those MOBA type games where you get 50 people running around. that'll choke a high end cpu out. a 4300 won't stand a chance there. nor will my q6600 either and about the only time the kids get a shot at my system is for some occasional MOBA action.
That's a great point! Make a console out of it OP!
 

maziech

Upstanding
Feb 18, 2019
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I appreciate your response, that is a lot of really good information. Now maybe you can help me learn; what advice would you give to OP to improve his experience with his most recent purchase?
IMO OP's setup is at it's max. There's no upgrades for this that would pay off.. 960 is a good match for this cpu. Lower the settings and enjoy 50-60fps in 1080p in most games. Next stop: New PC.
 
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Mar 29, 2019
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we assume gaming as the purpose cause that's just the way we are 😎

but that would be a good question to ask as well. for gaming i personally would say get what you can out of it and have fun. turn down settings where needed and see what it can do. i have an old q6600 system with an r9-270 and the kids don't complain at all. they play all kinds of games on it and know they need to drop some settings here and there if they want it to run well. when they buy some new parts, i'll be happy to upgrade it for them.

esports would run fine on that system. what would likely bog down would be those MOBA type games where you get 50 people running around. that'll choke a high end cpu out. a 4300 won't stand a chance there. nor will my q6600 either and about the only time the kids get a shot at my system is for some occasional MOBA action.
I would like to use this system to play CS:GO, MGSV, Battlefield V,, Pillars of eternity II, Civilisation VI, fallout 4, I hope I can play these games on medium settings with stable 60fps, if I can get that then I will be happy. even though I should have been less impulsive and used my £200 for an i5 and a 1050ti
 
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That may have been assembled 3 months ago, but that is a system with 3 to 5 year old parts.
so your saying the parts were used before leaving the store? when I refer to age Im talking about the use-life of the components, unless silicon degrades over time when not in use?
 

kanewolf

Titan
Moderator
so your saying the parts were used before leaving the store? when I refer to age Im talking about the use-life of the components, unless silicon degrades over time when not in use?
No, I am saying that the parts were designed and the first of that type was manufactured 5 years ago. The specific parts you got may have only been manufactured 1 to 2 years ago. So you have the equivalent of a brand new 2005 Hundai. It wasn't a great car when it was designed. It doesn't have miles on it, but it is even more outclassed by current cars.
 

maziech

Upstanding
Feb 18, 2019
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I would like to use this system to play CS:GO, MGSV, Battlefield V,, Pillars of eternity II, Civilisation VI, fallout 4, I hope I can play these games on medium settings with stable 60fps
I'm afraid You'll be dissapointed on some of those titles, especially BF5 in multiplayer.

If it comes to video cards, 1050ti and 960 perform similar, but 960 is only 2GB of ram, so this may slow You down in some latest titles.
 
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