Discussion HEDT future Intel vs AMD - Discussion

Tanyac

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Aug 30, 2014
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The rumors abound that Intel may push the HEDT market to the ultra-high end price wise. Such as with the 3175 XEON.
AMD has stated they will be producing a 3rd Generation Ryzen.

The problem I find with mainstream CPUs is the draconian limit of 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU. I've never had a system in which 16 is enough, with a plethora of PCIe cards such as 10g NICs, raid cards, M.2 cards, USB hubs and so forth, so I've always stuck with HEDT systems. My days may be numbered.

The Australian dollar is plummeting. The Australian government is taking so many bites of the pie, and as prices drop globally they don't drop here. There's so many people in the supply chain and retailers are happy to admit no one can do anything about it so why shouldn't they exploit customers!?

It's not uncommon to see things 2 to 3 times more expensive than the US prices. A $3000 USD 3175x CPU is as much as $6500 AUD. Motherboards are now racing toward the $2000 AUD mark for HEDT boards, whereas in 2016 $500-$550 was an average price.

Sure, I can "shut up and wait and see" as one person eloquently put it a year ago... and "No one has any more knowledge than you, so don't ask" was another... I'm really interested in what people think about the situation, what direction they may think things will take. How do you cope with only 16 PCie lanes? Even the Ryzen chips suffer from the same lack of PCIe lanes.

I've been planning an upgrade for quite some time, but Intel has been on hiatus for a couple of years now, only releasing new CPUs as a knee-jerk reaction to AMDs launches. How do you see the future panning out for HEDT users - with a limited budget - and in a country where prices are extreme?

Thoughts?
 

Tanyac

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Aug 30, 2014
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The Australian dollar is plummeting. The Australian government is taking so many bites of the pie, and as prices drop globally they don't drop here. There's so many people in the supply chain and retailers are happy to admit no one can do anything about it so why shouldn't they exploit customers!?
That part? Really? That bothers you? That's disappointing
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
The problem I find with mainstream CPUs is the draconian limit of 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU. I've never had a system in which 16 is enough, with a plethora of PCIe cards such as 10g NICs, raid cards, M.2 cards, USB hubs and so forth, so I've always stuck with HEDT systems. My days may be numbered.
Mainstream systems are meant for mainstream needs and typical people don't need RAID, 10GbE, tons of NVMe SSDs, etc. I bet more than 95% of PCs today don't have add-in boards aside from the GPU. Unfortunately for you, you are the poster child of one of the reasons why the HEDT segment exists: people who need/want far more IO than typical. If Intel doesn't produce new HEDT models, AMD's ThreadRipper has 60 usable PCIe lanes for you to play with and 3rd-gen Rippers should eliminate first and second gen's NUMA handicap.
 
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hftvhftv

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May 26, 2014
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The way to go with HEDT is AMD at the moment if price is a concern. Threadripper has a far better price to performance ratio as you can buy a first generation 1900X for a mere $300 and change Australian https://www.amazon.com.au/AMD-Threadripper-16-thread-Processor-YD190XA8AEWOF/dp/B0754JNQBP/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=1950X&qid=1559664422&s=gateway&sr=8-3 Yes it is only an 8 core CPU like a Ryzen 7 2700X but you have the upgrade path potentially all the way to a 2990WX or some third generation CPUs with a new motherboard. If you need the extra features I'd recommend this. Here's an inexpensive board to go with that CPU https://www.amazon.com.au/ASRock-X399-Taichi-sTR4-Motherboard/dp/B074J5R36W/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=PRIME+X399-A&qid=1559664614&s=gateway&sr=8-3
 
That part? Really? That bothers you? That's disappointing
It's likely bumping up against:

Violations - It violates the Tom's Hardware Rules of Conduct if you engage in any of the following activity:
...
■Posting off-topic posts in inappropriate forums.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/forum-rules-read-this-first.1246404/
what with politics not belonging in the CPU category.

And...
14. G.R.A.P.E.S. (that's an acronym) are disallowed topics. This list includes guns, religion, abortion, politics, economics, sexuality, and anything related to them. The moderation team reserves the right to remove any such posts and take action as warranted. For more detail on this policy, please refer to this.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq/toms-forums-f-a-q.2305891/
 
So you are complaining because things in Australia cost a lot?
You're a long way from mainlands where things are made, so shipping to Australia is a lot more.
I personally don't know what your trade deals/import taxs are and really can't be bothered looking them up.
In Europe we have a minimum of 20% Tax on Every product as well as import tax on products not made in the EU.

So I am using PC Part Picker and picking the most expensive item

Intel - Xeon E5-2697 V4 2.3 GHz 18-Core Processor
America USD - $2775.99
Australia - $4277
Germany - 6674 Euro

So which one do you think is more expensive taking into the conversion rates?
USD to AUD = 1.43
USD to Eur = 0.89

Taking all this into account the prices in USD are
America - 2775.99
Australia - 3,969.67
Germany - 5,939.86

It seems your rant about your Australian government doesn't hold up and you need to understand economics.
 
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TechyInAZ

Titan
Moderator
Yeah that is one big pet peeve I have with Intel specifically, they leave mainstream with only 16 PCI-E lanes and it's been this way for over a decade.

But, with PCI-E Gen 4.0 doubling 3.0 speed, we don't need more PCI-E lanes at this time on mainstream. PCI-E 4.0 will be plenty for at least a few years, not to mention Gen 5.0 is already getting ready to be launched.
 
Yeah that is one big pet peeve I have with Intel specifically, they leave mainstream with only 16 PCI-E lanes and it's been this way for over a decade.

But, with PCI-E Gen 4.0 doubling 3.0 speed, we don't need more PCI-E lanes at this time on mainstream. PCI-E 4.0 will be plenty for at least a few years, not to mention Gen 5.0 is already getting ready to be launched.
Slightly off topic but onto what you say.
If an Nvme is 4 lanes now with pci 3.0 and you put it in a pci 4.0 motherboard does it take 2 lanes or 4 still?
I'm not sure how that works.
 

TechyInAZ

Titan
Moderator
Slightly off topic but onto what you say.
If an Nvme is 4 lanes now with pci 3.0 and you put it in a pci 4.0 motherboard does it take 2 lanes or 4 still?
I'm not sure how that works.
That SSD doesn't support Gen 4.0 speeds, so that M.2 slot would go to a 3.0 mode for compatibility reasons. So yes it would still need all four lanes.

The SSD itself has to support 4.0 speeds to get 3.0 speeds on only 2 lanes.
 

TJ Hooker

Illustrious
Herald
So you are complaining because things in Australia cost a lot?
The majority of posts I've seen from the OP are complaining about Australian prices, usually ignoring exchanges rates and/or using cherry picked examples. I've seen them claim more than once that RAM/SSD prices haven't gone down at all there, but a quick look at PCPartPicker Australia clearly shows that's not the case.

There are plenty X299 and X399 boards for 500 AUD or less (with nearly all costing less than 1000 AUD), despite claims that they're "racing toward the $2000 AUD mark".
 
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The majority of posts I've seen from the OP are complaining about Australian prices, usually ignoring exchanges rates and/or using cherry picked examples. I've seen them claim more than once that RAM/SSD prices haven't gone down at all there, but a quick look at PCPartPicker Australia clearly shows that's not the case.

There are plenty X299 and X399 boards for 500 AUD or less (with nearly all costing less than 1000 AUD), despite claims that they're "racing toward the $2000 AUD mark".
I feel for you, if you have read his other posts if they are like this. Someone get TJ a beer. Just not Aussie beer, sounds expensive :)
 
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