Question Help in building a PC for gaming

[pepejr]

Hi,
I want to build a PC that will be running games in 4k on ultra settings with at least 60 FPS in most of the games.
This is what I've come up with so far.

CPU : Intel i7-13700K
Motherboard: ASUS PRIME Z790-A WIFI
GPU: Palit GeForce RTX 4080 GameRock OC 16GB
RAM: Kingston FURY 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL32 Renegade Silver
SSD: Kingston 2TB M.2 PCIe Gen4 NVMe KC3000 and WD SN850X 2TB
Cooler: Corsair iCUE H170i ELITE CAPELLIX 3x140mm
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 XL Black TG Light Tint
PSU: be quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W 80 Plus Platinum

I am debating whether to change Case and/or cooler for something else.

Will this build be okay? Can you suggest if I should change something in my build? I would appreciate it.

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you are going to go with an RTX 4080 I'd probably recommend this over that Straight power 11 for the ATX 3.0 adherence in the area of power excursions/transient spikes if nothing else.

PCPartPicker Part List

Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 TT Premium 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($229.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $229.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-12-20 14:51 EST-0500


Review:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/thermaltake-toughpower-gf3-1000-w/12.html

 

[geofelt]

The part that needs cooling will be the graphics card and motherboard.
The define7 with a solid front does not look to me like a good airflow case.
Look at the Lian li lancool216. I t comes in black or white:
https://www.newegg.com/white-lian-li-lancool-atx-mid-tower/p/2AM-000Z-000A9
Here is a review:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/lian-li-lancool-216-review
With good airflow, you can use a simple twin tower air cooler like the noctua NH-D15s.
The I7-13700K is a very strong cpu that can generate lots of heat.
In a production system where all cores are fully loaded you would need a top end cpu cooler.
But in a gaming environment, only one or two cores will be fully loaded and half a dozen support cores making the heat generation much less.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The Lian Li Lancool 216 does not support 420mm radiators like the one the OP picked out. Whether a 420mm AIO is a necessity or not is kind of a matter of personal choice. The 13700k tends to run kind of hot but a good 280 or 320mm AIO or big air cooler should be able to handle it fine. My 12700k stays plenty cool even with my single tower NH-U14S Noctua cooler, but the 13700k is a bit hotter too.

This might be a better case choice as it has full front mesh panel and no restrictions.

PCPartPicker Part List

Case: Fractal Design Meshify 2 XL ATX Full Tower Case ($219.99 @ B&H)
Total: $219.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-12-20 17:06 EST-0500

 

[pepejr]

Firstly, big thanks for your replies.

Secondly, do you know any good case that has good airflow and is silent?

 

[Karadjgne]

Aios do not need airflow, they just need Air, a subtle but kinda big difference. Air coolers need airflow, without that constant replacement they saturate and raise temps.

Nothing inherently bad at all about the Define 7 XL and a 420mm aio. It'll move plenty of air at a lower volume since even the higher wattage 13700k can't saturate it, it's a @ 250w cpu on a @ 400w cooler. It's going to run quiet.

The gpu is a different story altogether. It's a massive aircooler that's going to need a ton of fresh air when pushed, which it will be running 4k @ 60Hz+.

There's always a compromise. Silent cases are airflow limited, airflow cases are sound dampening limited. Byproduct of that is silent cases run warmer components, airflow cases run louder components.

The only way around that is with fans. Quieter, larger, higher sp/cfm fans will move more air at less volume, so a 360/420mm aio is perfect for the cpu, as exhaust. It has plenty of headroom to deal with the gpu exhaust and cpu wattage. Leaving intakes as higher airflow needed for the gpu.

I'd be looking more for an airflow case, with 2-3x decent 140mm fans in front that has 360mm/420mm aio access on top.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Firstly, big thanks for your replies.

Secondly, do you know any good case that has good airflow and is silent?

I just posted a link to one in the reply immediately before you made this one. Probably the best full tower option out there right now for airflow and Fractal design is one of the best if not THE best when it comes to noise levels, however noise levels are largely really NOT a product of case design but of fan selection and how you configure those fans. Most people don't configure them correctly or choose really cheap fans that simply do not match up with their paper specs in real world applications.

 

[Ar558]

Hi,
I want to build a PC that will be running games in 4k on ultra settings with at least 60 FPS in most of the games.
This is what I've come up with so far.

CPU : Intel i7-13700K
Motherboard: ASUS PRIME Z790-A WIFI
GPU: Palit GeForce RTX 4080 GameRock OC 16GB
RAM: Kingston FURY 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL32 Renegade Silver
SSD: Kingston 2TB M.2 PCIe Gen4 NVMe KC3000 and WD SN850X 2TB
Cooler: Corsair iCUE H170i ELITE CAPELLIX 3x140mm
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 XL Black TG Light Tint
PSU: be quiet! Straight Power 11 1000W 80 Plus Platinum

I am debating whether to change Case and/or cooler for something else.

Will this build be okay? Can you suggest if I should change something in my build? I would appreciate it.

Firstly if you are just running games you can get away with 13600K with no noticeable difference in performance. 4K at 60FPS is quite a high bar so a 4080 will do that but you have to accept you are being ripped off as the card while technically excellent is terrible value. Personally I would also stick to DDR4 as the price differential for DDR5 isn't worth it.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Firstly if you are just running games you can get away with 13600K with no noticeable difference in performance.

That's a pretty fundamentally broad statement. Would you care to back that up with some empirical proof?

And you need to stop with the "don't buy 40 series cards because there's no value". We've done this already. The value is determined by the OP, not by you. You can certainly have your opinion but slinging it out there in every thread is just not going to happen.

 

[Ar558]

That's a pretty fundamentally broad statement. Would you care to back that up with some empirical proof?

And you need to stop with the "don't buy 40 series cards because there's no value". We've done this already. The value is determined by the OP, not by you. You can certainly have your opinion but slinging it out there in every thread is just not going to happen.

Anyone who has looked at any reviews of Raptor lake products will have seen that the difference between the Raptor lake chips in gaming is negligible at best.

And you need to stop with the "don't buy 40 series cards because there's no value". We've done this already. The value is determined by the OP, not by you. You can certainly have your opinion but slinging it out there in every thread is just not going to happen.

No I really don't! Who died and made you king? I WILL continue to point out the value of any product and especially those that are a complete rip off. No poster has to follow my advice but I'm not here to keep the value of your nVidia shares up!

 

[pepejr]

Hi,
Again, thanks guys for your replies.
Regarding 4080, I am aware of its terrible value right now, but I don't mind it.


I saw some tests with i5-13600k and i7-13700k and the difference between them in gaming is not big, but I am a programmer and probably I will need some extra cores/threads for my work so I will stick with i7-13700k, but big thanks for your advice.

And Happy Christmas to all of you

 

[Ar558]

Hi,
Again, thanks guys for your replies.
Regarding 4080, I am aware of its terrible value right now, but I don't mind it.


I saw some tests with i5-13600k and i7-13700k and the difference between them in gaming is not big, but I am a programmer and probably I will need some extra cores/threads for my work so I will stick with i7-13700k, but big thanks for your advice.

And Happy Christmas to all of you

Ok as long as you are aware.
Good reasoning for going with the 13700K 🆒

 

[Darkbreeze]

My Nvidia shares? Jesus dude. That's sounds incredibly paranoid. And whether or not a CPU, ANY CPU, offers an appreciable benefit when gaming ENTIRELY depends on so many factors such as the game, the quality settings, what ELSE you are doing ALONG WITH gaming and even for that matter what the memory capacity and speed are, that "Anyone who has looked at any reviews of Raptor lake products will have seen that the difference between Raptor lake chips in gaming is negligible in games at best" is completely inaccurate.

Seriously, if you don't have proof to offer, it's best not to state a thing as if it were factual. Add any two mods to almost any game, add an overlay, open two Chrome tabs and then start recording your gameplay and THEN tell me that what CPU model you have whether within the same generation of not, doesn't matter. Of course it matters. It just depends on a variety of factors which generally we hardly ever know the extend of unless we ask. Which, you didn't.

That's without even factoring in anything related to games that are highly CPU driven, or memory intensive, or highly optimized for multithreaded performance.

And for the record, I don't have anything invested in ANY hardware or software companies. At all. Period. So you can stop with that line of accusations.

 

[Ar558]

My Nvidia shares? Jesus dude. That's sounds incredibly paranoid. And whether or not a CPU, ANY CPU, offers an appreciable benefit when gaming ENTIRELY depends on so many factors such as the game, the quality settings, what ELSE you are doing ALONG WITH gaming and even for that matter what the memory capacity and speed are, that "Anyone who has looked at any reviews of Raptor lake products will have seen that the difference between Raptor lake chips in gaming is negligible in games at best" is completely inaccurate.

Seriously, if you don't have proof to offer, it's best not to state a thing as if it were factual. Add any two mods to almost any game, add an overlay, open two Chrome tabs and then start recording your gameplay and THEN tell me that what CPU model you have whether within the same generation of not, doesn't matter. Of course it matters. It just depends on a variety of factors which generally we hardly ever know the extend of unless we ask. Which, you didn't.

That's without even factoring in anything related to games that are highly CPU driven, or memory intensive, or highly optimized for multithreaded performance.

You trying to say 2.6% and 1.3% aren't negligable?

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's relative, not actual performance. Relative performance is a joke. Relative to what? What ever was cherry picked? What was used to determine those relative performance statistics? We've seen this a lot from TechPowerUP but even there if you look at specific results you usually get a different picture. But whatever man. They are irrelevant anyhow as ALL of those results are assuming a clean lab use machine, not a real world machine that is also running a bunch of other crap like most gamers systems will be and which WILL make a difference in terms of whether more thread processing capability is a factor or not.

Hell, for that matter if we want to compare CLEAN systems with nothing but a clean OS install, a game loader and a game installed based on only single core performance you'd only be looking at like a 5% performance difference between a 13600k and 13700k but when comparing multithreaded performance it's closer to a 20% difference, and for most people, they are not just going to be running a clean system with just a game or even a couple of games installed like the lab machines running those benchmarks (At ANY review site) are going to be. Clearly though you are stuck in your preconceived narratives so it's pretty clear nobody is going to convince you that your position is flawed. So be it.

 

[Ar558]

That's relative, not actual performance. Relative performance is a joke. Relative to what? What ever was cherry picked? What was used to determine those relative performance statistics? We've seen this a lot from TechPowerUP but even there if you look at specific results you usually get a different picture. But whatever man. They are irrelevant anyhow as ALL of those results are assuming a clean lab use machine, not a real world machine that is also running a bunch of other crap like most gamers systems will be and which WILL make a difference in terms of whether more thread processing capability is a factor or not.

Hell, for that matter if we want to compare CLEAN systems with nothing but a clean OS install, a game loader and a game installed based on only single core performance you'd only be looking at like a 5% performance difference between a 13600k and 13700k but when comparing multithreaded performance it's closer to a 20% difference, and for most people, they are not just going to be running a clean system with just a game or even a couple of games installed like the lab machines running those benchmarks (At ANY review site) are going to be. Clearly though you are stuck in your preconceived narratives so it's pretty clear nobody is going to convince you that your position is flawed. So be it.

If you are comparing two things their relative performance is what you need. If you want I can post their whole setup's and the suite of games they use. You can argue the specifics all you like but you can't make any justifiable argument based on the idiosyncrasies that some particular game while also running 3 chrome tabs, excel etc etc. There is no way to measure that and allows you just to make whatever you like up.

The OP had only mentioned gaming at 4K and not lots of highly demanding multicore workloads so that is much harder to quantify as there is more variability depending on what specific tools they are using. If they ARE using alot of highly threaded work tasks then a case for a 13700k can be made but that is speculation.

I'm not stuck in any narrative but I will always default to best value when in doubt if I dont have any other details as that is the responsible thing to do unlike some people who spend there time trying to get people to spend as much as possible.

 

[Darkbreeze]

"Best value" almost never has any place in conversations regarding luxury purchases. Which you yourself said this was, and it is. So................

 

[Karadjgne]

Value is subjective. It resides in the opinion of the beholder. I have an opinion too, use it every other day at least, along with several sheets of tp.

The value pro reviewers place on any gpu is in comparison to its price point. Period. In their opinion, the performance gains or losses over similarly priced items and other gpus is what matters.

The 4080 should have been the 4090, with the 4090 being the Titan class card, it's production value being almost double that of the 4080. The 4080's msrp of $1200 vrs a Titan class card $1600 makes it over priced by $200 or more, especially with speculation putting the 4070 at $700.

The 4080 is roughly 30% better than a 3090Ti, with roughly 33% higher cost. Good value would be increase in performance and not price, but nvidia overbought 30 series silicon during Covid gpu shortages, so can't justify cutting 30 series cards too much on price, in direct competition with 40 series.

Making the 4080 a bad value to the wallet, even if it's a good value to the fps score.

 

[Ar558]

"Best value" almost never has any place in conversations regarding luxury purchases. Which you yourself said this was, and it is. So................

That is a personal decision. Advice on products should ALWAYS include value and it's up to the OP/Buyer to choose to ignore value if they are willing to.

 

[Vic 40]

4K at 60FPS is quite a high bar so a 4080 will do that but you have to accept you are being ripped off as the card while technically excellent is terrible value.

Advice on products should ALWAYS include value and it's up to the OP/Buyer to choose to ignore value if they are willing to.

Out of curiosity, what do you think is good value? Easy to say what is not, but not give in your opinion valid alternatives, at least i don't see them in this thread.

 

[Darkbreeze]

That is a personal decision. Advice on products should ALWAYS include value and it's up to the OP/Buyer to choose to ignore value if they are willing to.

No, they shouldn't. Advice on products to be used in BUDGET builds, or "halfways", should be based on a combination of things INCLUDING, as you say, value. Advice on purely "this is my hobby and I can afford to pay for my hobby because I said so" or "heavy enthusiast" type builds, should RARELY be based on value, and instead should be based on "can I actually afford it" and "is it going to do what I NEED or WANT it to do" considerations. I think that is where you are getting confused. This isn't a theoretical build for some dude (Or gal) with a maximum budget that limits some parts from consideration. It's somebody who has the money and wants a thing and only wants to know about performance and results. Period.

And what Vic asked is what I was going to ask myself yesterday. WHAT, do you think is a good recommendation for the OP based on your premise that "value" should be the underlying factor for all PC hardware purchasing decisions? I'd actually like to know what graphics card you are thinking is the better value here AND can do the required job?

 

[Karadjgne]

Which value? Financial, performance, perceived? Or maybe some other esoteric thought? Value is not a consideration for higher end components. It's that simple. Why? Because tomorrow AMD will drop something better, and the day after that Nvidia will drop something better still, making the money you spend today a waste.

Value only applies to budget, whether you get your moneys worth, today, tomorrow, next week.

 

[Ar558]

Out of curiosity, what do you think is good value? Easy to say what is not, but not give in your opinion valid alternatives, at least i don't see them in this thread.

I would say if you could get a 6800XT or 3080 at less than $650 that would be reasonable value. A 6750XT seems the best overall value for me at the moment.

 

[Ar558]

No, they shouldn't. Advice on products to be used in BUDGET builds, or "halfways", should be based on a combination of things INCLUDING, as you say, value. Advice on purely "this is my hobby and I can afford to pay for my hobby because I said so" or "heavy enthusiast" type builds, should RARELY be based on value, and instead should be based on "can I actually afford it" and "is it going to do what I NEED or WANT it to do" considerations. I think that is where you are getting confused. This isn't a theoretical build for some dude (Or gal) with a maximum budget that limits some parts from consideration. It's somebody who has the money and wants a thing and only wants to know about performance and results. Period.

And what Vic asked is what I was going to ask myself yesterday. WHAT, do you think is a good recommendation for the OP based on your premise that "value" should be the underlying factor for all PC hardware purchasing decisions? I'd actually like to know what graphics card you are thinking is the better value here AND can do the required job?

We clearly disagree fundamentally, I do everything and their base all my opinions on value. This is largely down to not being rich and being able to throw money away on something that is 5% better for 50% more money. I think you are underestimating the fact that firstly lots of people will get caught up in the hype for Halo products they can't afford and it is therefore sensible to have some voices that put the value case. It is clear you (and likely others) will put the opposite so I don't see your issue. Also if you have $1000 and you spend it all on GPU X because it is the best from a performance point of view you are assuming A that the OP will be able to get the same value out of the differential from the next product down the stack as you clearly do. They could spend $500 of GPU Y and then use the other $500 to improve their PC, or wider life in a way larger way than the difference between X and Y.

 

[Ar558]

Which value? Financial, performance, perceived? Or maybe some other esoteric thought? Value is not a consideration for higher end components. It's that simple. Why? Because tomorrow AMD will drop something better, and the day after that Nvidia will drop something better still, making the money you spend today a waste.

Value only applies to budget, whether you get your moneys worth, today, tomorrow, next week.

Value is Performance per dollar/pound/euro etc. The idea that Value is not a consideration is inane. Obviously it only applies at the moment of the purchase, Tech will always bring out something newer and better in some short amount of time but that doesn't invalidate making the best value decision on the day you make the purchase.