Help me understand FSB being intergrated into chip

[Ampz]

I'm looking to buy a new processor. I don't know the difference here its not quite clear. when i check the specs on both i see


* AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego Integrated into Chip FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA4000BNBOX - Retail
(limit 10 per customer)

64 bit Support: Yes
Cooling Device: Heatsink and Fan
Hyper-Transport Support: Yes
L1 Cache: 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache: 1MB
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
Operating Frequency: 2.4GHz
Process Type: 90 nm
Series: Athlon 64
Voltage: 1.35/1.4V
* Model #: ADA4000BNBOX
* Item #: N82E16819103529

* **This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only. what's this? In Stock
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AMD ADA3800DAA4BP Processors
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* AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice Integrated into Chip FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3800DAA4BP - OEM

64 bit Support: Yes
Cooling Device: None - Processor Only
Hyper-Transport Support: Yes
L1 Cache: 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache: 512KB
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
Operating Frequency: 2.4GHz
Process Type: 90 nm
Series: Athlon 64
Voltage: 1.35/1.4V
* Model #: ADA3800DAA4BP
* Item #: N82E16819103530

# AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3800BPBOX - Retail
(limit 10 per customer)

64 bit Support: Yes
Cooling Device: Heatsink and Fan
Hyper-Transport Support: Yes
L1 Cache: 64KB+64KB
L2 Cache: 512KB
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, 3DNOW! Professional
Operating Frequency: 2.4GHz
Process Type: 90 nm
Series: Athlon 64
Voltage: 1.35/1.4V
# Model #: ADA3800BPBOX
# Item #: N82E16819103531


The only difference I see in the 3800 and the 4k is the level 2 cache is 1mb instead of 512 how important is that? I dont see any other difference although you may know of some which i would like to know about the operating freq is the same as i can see. Also what is the difference between the first 3800 and the 2nd? The only thing i see different is one says 1ghz fsb and other says intergrated into chip which im still not fully understanding. they are the same price which one is better?

 

[pat]

A64 has the memory controller integrated into the CPU and other CPU has to rely on the memory controller that is in the chipset. The FSB in the A64 is not really a FSB, but rather a bus between the memory and the CPU. The difference between the 2 CPU is only the cache, but one is OEM while the other is retail. OEM CPU doesnt have a cooler, and cooling have to be purchase too, while the retail box contain the heat sink and the fan. it has a longer warranty too.

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[Ampz]

So basically the one that is intergrated into the cpu you dont have to worry about the chipset on the MB but now the question is can I get a MB that has a better memory controller in the chipset then the built in one? and how come when it says built in it dosent say a speed? The one says 1000 mhz meaning that a MB that supports up to 1ghz can run the hypertransporting at full speed correct? So as far as the 4000+ that is intergrated what speed would that be? Sorry spelling and sorry if im misunderstanding what your saying im pretty new to the intergrated cpu.

 

[pat]

Having the memory controller in the CPU is the best thing, because it remove lot of latency and improve performance.

The speed is dictated by the memory. See, even if you are on the highway with you bicycle, it wont mean that you will gao at 60 MP/H. The The 1 GHz HTT bus has much more bandwidth that the memory need. So, you dont have to worry about the speed. You might see 800 MHz bus too, it is ok. Sometime, you will see 1600MHz and 2000MHz too. Because the bus is bidirectional, some add the up speed to the down speed to make bigger number and fool people. Just like if you were told that you can go 120 MP/H on the highway because you can drive to at 60 and come back at 60....

Sometime, I think that they put too many detail in parts description.. See, an A64 socket 939 4000+ is supposed to be faster than a 3800+.. That all you need to know. And you need a motherboard that support socket 939 CPU, that's all.

they sometime copy/past description that come from different sources and they are all mixed with unessecary general information. They could add a tab, which would be something like advanced description and technical data and have it so boring that general public wont look at it and get bored..

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[Ampz]

Thank you for your posting. I was helped greatly by it. I'm going to go with the 4000+. Right now I will go over to the MB section and ask which is best MB for this cpu. I appriciate the help.

 

[Ampz]

I don't know how! tell me PLZ tell me PLZ! <3

 

[P4Man]

>The The 1 GHz HTT bus has much more bandwidth that the memory
> need.

The memory doesnt even use the HTT bus *at all*, RAM is connected directly to the ondie memory controller. On single socket A64s, the HTT bus is only used to connect the cpu to what is left of the traditional northbridge (which is basically only PCI-E) and for most chipsets, to connect NB and SB. You are right though that 1 GHz HTT has no significant impact, but it does help a tiny bit even if the available bandwith is overkill, since higher clockspeeds also reduce latency. On a 1 GHz bus, every operation that takes a single cycle will happen 20% faster than on a 800 MHz bus. But again, even 800 MHz is plenty fast, even early nForce3 chipsets that ran their HTT at just 600 MHz showed no measurable slowdown.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[pat]

I know.. I should have write the LDT bus, but, this would have bring much more explication that I was ready to put on...

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[P4Man]

>I know.. I should have write the LDT bus,

AFAIK "LDT" is just a word to decribe "Lightening Data", which is the old name of hypertransport. It certainly doesnt refer to the memory bus of the K8, because there is no memory bus. Memory is attached straight to cpu.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =