Question Help me understand why RAM is the most expensive component in my build.

[bdanning09]

Hello, I've been doing a ton of research trying to get caught up and understand all the Ryzen memory configurations and whats supported vs what isn't. From what I've gathered Ryzen will support up to 2933mhz yet everyone seems to recommend 3200mhz. I have no interest in overclocking, the cpu, ram or anything for that matter. So out of the box, am I better off getting 3000mhz ram? and will it out of the box plug in and run at its max 2933mhz? Also, aside from the base speed, i'm trying to understand the different IC's and have gathered Samsung B-die is the way to go. Furthermore, im now learning about the single rank vs dual rank and AMD specific memory. My thing is I'm trying to keep this a relatively mainstream/budget build. I know I can go out and buy a 16gb (2x8gb) 3200mhz samsung b-die dual rank and spend a lot of money and be good to go but i feel like its not necessary for what im trying to accomplish which is simply high settings, 144fps @ 1080p. Is it wrong that I think i'ts ridiculous to be spending more on RAM than both the GPU and CPU? Is ram seriously the most expensive component in the entire build these days?

Build:
-Ryzen 5 2600
-MSI B450 Tomahawk
-Radeon RX 590

 

[Dark Lord of Tech]

If it's rated for higher speeds it has to be set in the BIOS under DRAM settings. Usually labeled: DOCP\AXMP\EOCP.

Do your research , check the boards QVL memory list, read reviews to find modules that run well on Ryzen.

 

[WildCard999]

Where are you buying memory from? A 2x8gb @3200 kit should only be like $110. And with Ryzen, especially with a 144hz monitor, I get the fastest supported (look at the motherboard) which is 3200mhz. The difference between 3200 and & 2133 can be nearly a 20 FPS difference depending on the game.

 

[bdanning09]

Where are you buying memory from? A 2x8gb @3200 kit should only be like $110. And with Ryzen, especially with a 144hz monitor, I get the fastest supported (look at the motherboard) which is 3200mhz. The difference between 3200 and & 2133 can be nearly a 20 FPS difference depending on the game.

You're not finding a 16gb kit @ 3200mhz that uses samsung b-die for $110

Also, again.. ryzen supports up to 2933 so why get 3200?

 

[WildCard999]

You're not finding a 16gb kit @ 3200mhz that uses samsung b-die for $110

Also, again.. ryzen supports up to 2933 so why get 3200?

The motherboard determines speed so 3200 kits will run at the correct speed.

 

[bdanning09]

The motherboard determines speed so 3200 kits will run at the correct speed.

Everywhere I've read say's AMD's Ryzen 2000 series processors are only supported up to 2933Mhz, of course the motherboards support faster speeds but that's not the question. If AMD themselves say Ryzen is only supported up to 2933MHz why is everyone suggested 3200 as the sweetspot? And is it still the sweetspot for someone not interested in overclocking?

 

[WildCard999]

Everywhere I've read say's AMD's Ryzen 2000 series processors are only supported up to 2933Mhz, of course the motherboards support faster speeds but that's not the question. If AMD themselves say Ryzen is only supported up to 2933MHz why is everyone suggested 3200 as the sweetspot? And is it still the sweetspot for someone not interested in overclocking?

People recommend 3200 as it is supported, if it wasn't then there wouldn't be a performance difference between the two and the difference can be as high as 5 FPS just between those speeds. As for overclocking the only thing you need to do is enable AXMP/DOCP or whatever the manufacturer calls it to get the memory to run at the rated speed. And also while Samsung B-die is preferred the supported memory from first generation Ryzen has greatly increased so even a non Samsung kit would provide excellent performance.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8X7bpgyWs

Save yourself the $80 and get CL16.

 

[bdanning09]

People recommend 3200 as it is supported, if it wasn't then there wouldn't be a performance difference between the two and the difference can be as high as 5 FPS just between those speeds. As for overclocking the only thing you need to do is enable AXMP/DOCP or whatever the manufacturer calls it to get the memory to run at the rated speed. And also while Samsung B-die is preferred the supported memory from first generation Ryzen has greatly increased so even a non Samsung kit would provide excellent performance.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8X7bpgyWs

Save yourself the $80 and get CL16.

Is there a performance difference between the Samsung B-Die and the others? Why is Samsung B-Die the preference?

Also, what about single / dual rank and the “for AMD” ram?

 

[InvalidError]

Is there a performance difference between the Samsung B-Die and the others? Why is Samsung B-Die the preference?

Performance between DIMMs with the same clock and timings should be identical as there is no way for DIMMs to influence the memory controller aside from timings it gets from the SPD chip.

The reason for insisting on B-die is because Ryzen 1xxx's memory controller was extremely picky and wouldn't boot with many other manufacturers' DRAM dies, never mind reaching the DIMMs' advertised maximum speed. Samsung's B-dies became the de-facto standard for people who don't want the disappointment of no-go DIMMs. Ryzen' 2xxx's memory controller addressed most of those shortcomings and has drastically better memory compatibility. B-dies are still favored because they are still more likely to reach advertised speed when paired with Ryzen 2xxx than many other DRAM chips. That's also why DIMM manufacturers are making Ryzen-specific models.

 

[WildCard999]

Is there a performance difference between the Samsung B-Die and the others? Why is Samsung B-Die the preference?

Also, what about single / dual rank and the “for AMD” ram?

When it comes to the second Gen Ryzens the performance is incredibly minimal so personally I wouldn't waste $80 on a B-die kit when I can get update the BIOS on the motherboard to ensure better memory compatability/stability then enable AXMP/DOCP/etc to get it running at the correct speed. Samsung B-die was preferred during the first gen Ryzens as they were really the only kits that worked at the time but now with BIOS updates and such the compatibility is much better.

The "For AMD" or "For Intel" kits is just marketing, either of those kits would work in the opposite system. If you talking about single channel and dual channel setups your almost always better off running the memory in dual channel as it performs better then single channel in like 90% of the games/applications I've seen. To find out which slots you need to use for each channel you'd need to refer to your motherboard manufacturers guide as they can differ.

 

[bdanning09]

When it comes to the second Gen Ryzens the performance is incredibly minimal so personally I wouldn't waste $80 on a B-die kit when I can get update the BIOS on the motherboard to ensure better memory compatability/stability then enable AXMP/DOCP/etc to get it running at the correct speed. Samsung B-die was preferred during the first gen Ryzens as they were really the only kits that worked at the time but now with BIOS updates and such the compatibility is much better.

The "For AMD" or "For Intel" kits is just marketing, either of those kits would work in the opposite system. If you talking about single channel and dual channel setups your almost always better off running the memory in dual channel as it performs better then single channel in like 90% of the games/applications I've seen. To find out which slots you need to use for each channel you'd need to refer to your motherboard manufacturers guide as they can differ.

Thank you for clarifying the importance of B-die for the 1st gen Ryzens. That makes much more sense. However, I understand and will be using dual-channel memory but something else I’ve heard a lot about is single-rank and dual-rank memory.

 

[InvalidError]

However, I understand and will be using dual-channel memory but something else I’ve heard a lot about is single-rank and dual-rank memory.

Single-rank have only one set of DRAM chips connected to the data bus and are typically single-sided while dual-rank have two banks of DRAM chips and are pretty much always double-sided. More chips on the bus increases bus loading and tends to lead to lower achievable memory bus speeds. You get the best chance of reaching the highest memory speed possible with only one single-rank DIMM per channel which provides the lowest load possible on the memory bus and the worst chances with two dual-rank DIMMs per channel which has the highest load on the bus.

 

[bdanning09]

Single-rank have only one set of DRAM chips connected to the data bus and are typically single-sided while dual-rank have two banks of DRAM chips and are pretty much always double-sided. More chips on the bus increases bus loading and tends to lead to lower achievable memory bus speeds. You get the best chance of reaching the highest memory speed possible with only one single-rank DIMM per channel which provides the lowest load possible on the memory bus and the worst chances with two dual-rank DIMMs per channel which has the highest load on the bus.

I've noticed Dual-Rank has slower speeds, but I'm curious why Dual-Rank is supposedly better? Maybe your response answered this question, but I guess I'm still not understanding. The way you made it sound, running Dual-Channel (Single Rank) would be best?

 

[InvalidError]

I've noticed Dual-Rank has slower speeds, but I'm curious why Dual-Rank is supposedly better? Maybe your response answered this question, but I guess I'm still not understanding. The way you made it sound, running Dual-Channel (Single Rank) would be best?

Dual-Rank and Dual-Channel are two completely different things. Dual-Rank is worse for maximum achievable memory speeds because you have twice as many DRAM dies connected to the memory bus. Dual-Channel has DRAM chips split between two physically independent memory busses, doubling usable memory bandwidth. You definitely want dual-channel as this typically yields 15-25% better performance which you would have a very hard time to make up for with single-channel memory overclocking.

 

[bdanning09]

Yes, I know there's a difference and I know Dual-Channel is and has always been the way to go. My questions are specifically about Single-Rank and Dual-Rank. Through the research and youtube videos talking about Ryzen Memory, Dual-Rank has always been suggested yet it runs at lower speeds, so that's why I'm confused and that's what I'm trying to understand. But from what I'm gathering from you... Single-Rank is the way to go?

 

[InvalidError]

Single-rank single DIMM per channel is better if you want to achieve higher memory clocks. All other things being equal, dual-rank can have a slight performance advantage over dual-rank from providing twice as many potential open memory rows to work with. The biggest advantage of dual-rank DIMMs for most people is that they are typically cheaper simply because smaller DRAM dies have higher yields.

If you don't care about memory OC, then the only thing that matters is whether or not the memory will run at whatever speed you want and the best tools to avoid trial-and-error is the motherboard's memory QVL and the DIMM manufacturers' own QVLs.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Everywhere I've read say's AMD's Ryzen 2000 series processors are only supported up to 2933Mhz, of course the motherboards support faster speeds but that's not the question. If AMD themselves say Ryzen is only supported up to 2933MHz why is everyone suggested 3200 as the sweetspot?

2933 MHz is what AMD officially rates them for. Doesn't mean they can't run faster, it's just technically an overclock at that point. Same thing goes for Intel. Their fastest CPUs are only rated for 2666 MHz DDR4, but there are people running 4000+ MHz memory with them.

 

[scout_03]

at the bottom of the link all these ram been test with your board and will work https://www.gskill.com/en/configurator?manu=55&chip=3396&model=3441

 

[bdanning09]

Thank you all for the information, you’ve definitely cleared up some of the confusion!