help please: CPU heat/throttling

[fareedyomind]

Need Help:

I was having issues with my video card overheating (hitting 90c+ with load) so I changed the case for my comp, from stock Gateway to a Thermaltake Armor.
I also upgraded the PSU from stock 330watt to a Kingwin Mach 1 800w (22a 12v).

The switch from case to case went smooth, but when I first started up, I had a CPU thermal event (due to a lack of seal on my Heatsink on the CPU).
I reapplied Arctic Silver Thermal Paste and applied the heatsink correctly.

Now my CPU is idling at 55-60c and hitting 85c under load (full screen gaming, etc..).
Due to this massive heat in the CPU, the INTEL Pentium D throttles itself down.
My FPS goes from 80-100 to 9-20. It sucks.

Of course my video card is happy now sitting at 65c under load (as opposed to 90c under load prior to case switch).
My new case has tons of fans and air circulation and my other MOBO zone temps are under 40c while gaming, etc...

I have narrowed it down to a few suspicions, please help:
1. PSU is somehow faulty and causing the CPU heatup and to be unstable
2. Thermal Event damaged the processor or MOBO thermal sensors permanently (doesnt make sense that CPU works still though...)

My new PSU has some minor voltage fluctuations, but always sits in the middle of the Volt green zones on my Intel Hardware Monitor.
Here are my voltage readings:
+12v = 12.125 (fluctuates to 12.188)
+5v = 5.130 (fluctuates to 5.104)
+3.3v= 3.334
CPU core = 1.235 (fluctuates to 1.247 to 1.259)
CPU I/O (+1.5v) = 1.563

I have tried to update the Bios to see if this would fix it. Nothing changed.
Any suggestions?

My next move is to put the old PSU back in.
I replaced the stock PSU beacause my PCI-Express Grfx card, with SBlaster X-fi and extra case fans was causing intermitten reboots (very rarely)

System Specs:
MOBO: 945gcz (latest bios, 9.3.07)
CPU: Pentium D 820 (chart shows it should run at 69c under load, mine runs 85c+)
RAM: DDR2 running at 667
VID: ati 1900gt 256mb ddr3
Sound: PCI x-fi sound blaster
2 x DVD tsst burners
1 x internal HDD
Mouse, speakers, mic, usb gamepad, external firewire hdd

Any help would be heavily appreciated.
I would like to replace the MOBO and CPU, but cant afford that for some time and would love to get this system back to working order...

 

[fareedyomind]

*extra info*
I read the other threads regarding proper ARCTIC SILVER paste applications and about seating my Socket 775 Heat Sink correctly.

I am confident both the paste and the Heat Sink are correctly and firmly in place (the Heat Sink is burning hot to touch).
**********
My biggest concern is whether my PSU voltage (stock, no overclocking done or available on 945gcz/Pentium D 820) is causing this heat???

Or is it possible that the initial Thermal Event Shutdown was hot enough to damage the CPU; and that a damaged CPU could run, yet constantly down throttle itself, etc...???

 

[ryanthesav]

What is the rpm on ur cpu fan?..and what is the temp of ur room?

 

[fareedyomind]

Thanks for the reply!

Its 50-60f in my room at most, its cold - I live in the mountains of Colorado.

I have no CPU fan, just the stock heat sink that has been cooling the cpu for 4+ years.

My case has a fan (80mm) in front of the cpu (running on high, automatically) intaking cold air, and a fan (80mm) exhausting the hot air.
Also, a top back exhaust fan (80 mm), a top exhaust fan (80mm), a PCI fan, a 120mm PSU fan, and to top it all off a 250mm side of case fan.

 

[bob8701]

so you think the passive cpu cooling is not your problem. the D820 is one of hottest dual core in the market. just add a fan or buy a better cpu heatsink will solve your problem.

 

[Grimmy]

I would say you don't have the HS mounted right. It is a 775 socket? I'd re-check the 4 pins securing it to the MB. I'd also recommend getting a replacement that has a fan if your temps are that high.

 

[jkflipflop98]

You can't run a P4 passive. The Gateway case probably had an airduct of some sort for keeping air moving over the heaksink.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103031

 

[ryanthesav]

I think jkflipflop98 is right. U need to put a fan on that bad boy. Put a fan on there with a decent max rpm. Problem solved.

This is one of the best:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118020&Tpk=Zalman%2b9700

 

[geofelt]

P4 cpu's run very hot. I do not think you can run them in a normal case without a good heat sink and fan.
I would suggest a large heat sink with a 120mm fan that directs hot air towards the back and out of the case.

If you have a hot video card, it can aggravate the problem. The heat from the video card rises and goes past the cpu cooler which only sees hot air and can't do much. What vga card do you have? Look for a vga cooler of the dual slot type that exhausts the vga card heat out the rear slot instead of recirculating it.

Also your psu is a tier 5 unit on this list: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088
I do not think that it is part of the problem, but in the future, look for a tier 2 or better unit.

 

[mike99]

Why do you think you had heat issue with video card? My GF7800GT has alarm setting at 115C.
Video card GPUs are allowed to run hotter than CPUs.
Have you looked up max safe temp for your video card? You might be better putting everything back where it was!

Mike.

 

[fareedyomind]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLIES AND HELP!!!!

The case that came with the gateway was tight and cramped.
BUT, it did have a duct that clipped over the stock heat sink (didnt come with heat sink fan).

My video card (ati 1900gt) used to set its own GPU heat alarm off all the time in the old Gateway Case. It would routinely hit 103c+.

Now its great.

I would think that with ZONE 1 and ZONE 2 temps of 25c and my video card (with a pci exhaust fan in the slot above) hitting only 70s under load that would indicate plenty of air movement and cooling.

I agree that the Pentium D 820 is a super hot chip, but I am surprised that changing cases and changing PSU would cause such a jump in temp.

This down throttling sucks, but I am sure it is saving me from lighting the mobo on fire. 87c last night, its unbelievable that the system can sustain that much heat.
-----------

Everyone is pretty sure though that the POWER SUPPLY is not causing the problem and that the VOLTAGES are all good??

I am going to reseat the heat sink and repaste it again.
My Stock Heat Sink doesnt have the standard clip style, it uses spring tensioned screws to mount, so it hasnt seem as tricky as other 775 setups seem to be from reading other threads.
-------

Thank you for you replies!!!!!
Any more ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

Ill post my results after reseating everything again.

 

[fareedyomind]

*** I ordered the COOLER MASTER HYPHER 2 cpu cooler.
It was rated as one of the best after-market coolers by Toms Hardware.


****Im going to try and reseat and reapply now and see if that fixes the problem until the Cooler Master arrives...

 

[ZOldDude]

I ordered the COOLER MASTER HYPHER 2 cpu cooler.
It was rated as one of the best after-market coolers by Toms Hardware.

Well the best air coolers are Thermalright...but your not going to get one for the same price so your getting good value.

When you install it clean -both- the CPU and the new cooler first with acetone and then tech grade alcohol...use a coffee filter to rub the surface free of dust/lint afterwards.

Place a speck of TIM about the size of a grain of rice on the CPU and cover your finger with plastic wrap...pick up about 1/3 of the TIM and rub the HS with it to fill any micro cracks...then do the same with the CPU. Now place 1/3 of a grain of rice of TIM in the center of the CPU...do not rub it....install the HS.

Doing it this way regular white silicone TIM will cool as well as the highest (overpriced) TIM and a $1 package will do about 8 CPU installs.

All my builds run only 4C over room air temps and the 7 in my profile (my LAN) are all OC 50%.
The 6000+ systems I started building 3 weeks ago have the same 4C over room after an hour of Orthos.

 

[fareedyomind]

I cleaned (using my arctic silver thermal paste remover compound) both the CPU (took it out of the socket) and the Heat Sink. Then, I prepped both the heat spreader and the heat sink with the arctic silver mating compound, then precisely pasted and seated the heat sink.

The heat sink is seated and is tight as the screws will go, its obviously sealed onto the socket.

Still, same temps.

Oh well, thanks for everyone's help.
My STRONG belief is that the thermal sensors were damaged on the board during the initial thermal event and its causing these errant readings of temps. The heat sink is hot, but its not boiling water hot, it just doesnt make sense to me.

 

[mike99]

Then, I prepped both the heat spreader and the heat sink with the arctic silver mating compound, then precisely pasted and seated the heat sink.

TOO much, should only be thin coating on CPU ONLY!

Mike.

 

[Grimmy]

I cleaned (using my arctic silver thermal paste remover compound) both the CPU (took it out of the socket) and the Heat Sink. Then, I prepped both the heat spreader and the heat sink with the arctic silver mating compound, then precisely pasted and seated the heat sink.

The heat sink is seated and is tight as the screws will go, its obviously sealed onto the socket.

Still, same temps.

Oh well, thanks for everyone's help.
My STRONG belief is that the thermal sensors were damaged on the board during the initial thermal event and its causing these errant readings of temps. The heat sink is hot, but its not boiling water hot, it just doesnt make sense to me.

I overlooked what the other pointed out. Since that is a pretty hot chip, it should be able to handle the heat, so I wouldn't say the sensors are broken. Nor would I say the PSU has anything to do with it.

But I agree that your old case was designed with a duct to help cool that HS. Since you are using a different case, and have no fan on that HS, it doesn't have enough airflow to help dissipate the heat.

I saw you decided to get another HS? Hopefully that should really help more with keeping that chip cool.

 

[mike99]

Your new case does not have the airflow directed at the HS that you had in the original case, that's why you are running too hot. Take the side of the case off and point a desk fan at the CPU HS and you will run at full speed.

Mike.

 

[fareedyomind]

...Still waiting for the CPU fan to arrive.

Here is an image of my case, some of you might not be familiar with it.
It has a 25cm (thats 250MM!!!) fan on the side blowing intake air directly onto the heat sink.
http://www.2schoeps.com/1/pictures/02401_thermaltake06.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.2schoeps.com/1/index.php%3Fact%3Dpic2007&h=600&w=800&sz=176&hl=en&start=21&um=1&tbnid=NCCtS3l8DGzteM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthermaltake%2Barmor%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26sa%3DN

Also, it has a 120mm front fan directly in front of the heat sink, much like the gateway did, and then a 120mm back exhast fan behind the heat sink.

Not to mention the 3 top fans and my PCI fan....

My guess is the CPU FAN/Heat sink combo I ordered will change NOTHING.
Ill report temps as soon as I hook it up.

 

[Grimmy]

Heh.. your link doesn't work.

I know what the case looks like, and it is a nice one. But even though that has good airflow that doesn't mean the HS that your using will get airflow throw it's fins to dissipate heat. That is why your older case had a duct system.

I believe the new HS your getting will do a good job simply because its a heat pipe design with a fan that should blow to the exhaust fan. The side fan however, might cause a disturbance in airflow itself, and why I wouldn't get something with a side fan that big.

GL on that. Really hard to say if that MB allows using 3rd part HS since it was designed for a HS duct system. I only found this pic that shows part of the case:

 

[fareedyomind]

Sorry about the poor link - duh!

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice here.

Im just surprised that the duct style over the heatsink would cause a 10-17 degree drop in C. I never set the CPU alarm off prior to this, and it was set to 73c.

I have tried this with the case off, the side fan disabled as well, and there doesnt seem to be an effect.

I'll post the CPU fan results as soon as I get it.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Remember when you get your new heatsink, the fan will be 'pushing' air. So mount it that the air will blow directly through the sink and out the back exhaust fan. You dont want to have the HSF and back exhaust fighting for medium flow.

 

[fareedyomind]

Wouldn't FIT, DOH!!!!!

Oh well, saving the Hyper Cooler Master X2 for the new mobo/cpu.

I rigged my old 120 mm fan from the duct into the new case.
Its helping keep it idle below 60c now.

It almost seems like the 4pin molex power connect and 3 pin fan control (which isn't compatible? with my board) doesnt spin the stock thermaltake 120 mm fans enough.

When I put my old 120 mm fan with 4 pin pwmgmt cable into the system, it spins fast and loud at 2100+ rpm. My other fans seem to be spinning on low constantly at 1560 rpm.

Is there a way to force the 120mm with 3 pin cords and 4 pin molex into high gear?

**********
ordered a new mobo/cpu.
couldnt find the e8400 anywhere that would ship before summer, so I ended up with the 3.0 6850 and an Asus p5e x38 mobo.
Thoughts?

Whats the best steps for switching it all over with O/S (xp pro) and HDD?

 

[Shadow703793]

^Some thing like this should work: (3 pin fan to Molex)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835999104
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189119

 

[fareedyomind]

Thanks SHADOW - thats exactly what I need.
Im going to check Radio Shack first, but I'm pretty sure I will end up ordering from newegg (of course).

---

Any other thoughts on the new system build? Or pre-build advice?