Help: Stuttering with a lot of games on GTX 1060. HUGE UPDATE: NVIDIA'S FAULT CONFIRMED.

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Mar 26, 2013
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JUMP TO THE POST WITH THE UPDATE: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3443807/stuttering-lot-games-gtx-1060/page-2.html#19968622


Hi all,
Hope you can help me:

(Important note: i could get a refund on my card so i got it, but i am still really interested on knowing why is this happening so i can buy a new one.)

-Since i bought my EVGA GTX 1060 i have had random stuttering, lag, frames drops on a lot of games:
CS:GO, Killing Floor 2 (changing some things i have got a smoother framerate but still there), Solarix (first level with huge drops, second seems smooth), Black Mesa (mainly when loading enemies).

Also i had huge stuttering on games like The Division (Free weekends), Ghost Recon Wildlands Beta, Call of Duty Infinite Warfare, and Black ops 3 (Free weekends on both). On all these does not matter if it had highest posible settings or the lowest.

-I had no problems with:
DOOM demo, Steep Beta, Fallout 4 had some slowdowns when i was on a city (Steam free weekend) but were stable,...
I could play ARK and it only sutters when a new day starts.

Things i have tried:
-Uninstalled Geforce Experience: got a performance boost but still stutters.
-Several drivers "clean-installed" with DDU (only driver and Physx, but now i see Audio and 3D is installed too -Windows Update? anyway does not seem to affect-).
-On Nvidia Control Panel Set Maximun number of prerendered frames to 1: got rid of some stuttering, but not all.
-GPU and CPU temps are fine.
-Diabling all startup programs and all MSconfig services (no Microsoft ones, of course)
-MOST IMPORTANT: i installed my old ATI HD6870 and the stuttering on CSGO and Solarix is gone without a doubt and on Killing Floor 2 i think is better too but now i have some frame drops (no stuttering as i had with 1060, i am almost sure it is "stable" frame drops -bad optimization i guess-). Also i could play The Division (everything on low) in a pretty smooth way (usually below 30fps, but smooth, while the 1060 has stuttering even in low).

Info i have found:
-A lot of people are having almost the same problems with almost the same games (can list some more if you want). All of them with different specs (some with way better specs).
-Some people "fixed" it changing HDD for SDD, others adding more RAM; on others these didn't work.
-Some say that anything lower than 6XX series (unsure about 7XX) work without a problem.
-Someone said he had these problems, did a RMA and got rid of them without doing anything else (waiting the report of someone else that is going to do the same).
-On the threads i have read i have not found a lot of users with ATIs with these stuttering problems. Maybe because there are less ATIs than NVIDIAS? But still very few ATis.
Now let me explain:
Well, as i said maybe a first batch of cards-chips are faulty and some compensate it with an SSD and RAM, and others can't. Could it be?

Also i contacted NVIDIA for help and all they could say is that as my motherboard has PCIe 2.0, and Pascal "requires" (does it?) 3.0 that is all my problems from.
Asked someone and told me he has stuttering with 3.0 on the same games than me, fixed with an SSD.
Also searched for benchmarks and it should only be a slighty difference between 2.0 and 3.0 on a few games (but that should have lower performance, no stuttering, right?).

I contacted Ubisoft too, for The Division stuttering and they told me that it was the CPU, but again, i don't think this could cause stuttering, just a worse performance than others.
Also they told me that i should uninstall some programs (DAEMON Tools Lite, MSI Afterburner, Unigine Valley, Nero 10, MegaDownloader), i barely use them (never runing games) and i have disabled it on startup (task manager), so i think they should have no effect, am i wrong? (as i don't use them i think i can uninstall them and install them if i need them -one of them has never been used-).



So,
What do i do?
Do you know any test i could do to see if the GPU is faulty or if any other thing is causing this?
A lot of 1XXX are having problems without a cause?
Should I ask EVGA too?
Should i RMA (or buy the same model)? could newer cards be faulty too?
Do AMD-ATIs have these problems too? If they do why are there so little posts about them? if they don't have stuttering problems (unless faulty) what could be a quick recomendation for an ATI card? (will probably create a thread to find out anyway 😉 ).








Hope you can help me.

Thank you very much in advance.




My specs:
- Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (DDR3-LGA 1366)
- Intel i7 930
- RAM G.Skill 3x2GB DDR3 1600 (F3 12800 CL 7-8-7-24 1.5v)
- Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
- Lancool PC-K60 Dragonlord
- Seasonic X-650 Modular SS-650KM (80 Plus Hybrid-silent)
- Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB FAEX
- EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB (now: ATI HD6870)
- Windows 10


P.S. I accept advices on this OP if you think it can be done more clear to read 😉 .
 
Solution
J
UPDATE HERE:
Hi all,
I have confirmation from NVIDIA Team Manager for NVIDIA Customer Care Europe that it is a problem with NVIDIA drivers that can affect several generations of cards, several OS (10,7...) and random hardware-software configurations.​

They are "actively working on a fix", but no ETA for it yet, as seems they have discovered this general problem recently (in part because i have been talking with them for months and showing them proofs that something was wrong in their end).
Hope they fix it as soon as posible.


Here some of their last emails confirming this:


1-
Hello,
(...)

In regards to the feedback that you have provided about the stuttering issue on several systems, our development...
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You obviously didn't read the entire thing, otherwise you would've noticed he put back in his OLDER GRAPHICS CARD and every game worked just fine, if anything he had better performance on his OLDER GRAPHICS CARD (specifically the ATI HD6870) then he did with the GTX 1060 (less stuttering etc, much more playable)

So yes, it's the graphics card problem, all the CPU would do is cause a huge ass bottleneck but other then that, nothing like major stuttering which he posted that he was experiencing.
 
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You haven't tried everything, I can tell you that already.

If certain companies told you to uninstall certain programs that could cause issues with the games/GPU it-self, I'd then uninstall them. Even if you don't use them, they can still cause issues by just being on your HDD at all to begin with (such as certain files being here and there, the same names, etc etc etc..List can go on and on)

You cold also try a complete refresh of Windows 10, as from what I've heard if people do a 100% fresh install of Windows 10 and delete everything, then usually you'll have a 100% smooth experience after that. Pretty much that's exactly what I would recommend you to do, and after you get the GPU working and all like it should (without any stuttering AKA by bench-marking it and playing games on it) then you can continue to install each program 1 by 1 until you come across one of them that causes issues with the GPU it-self.

That's essentially all I can recommend to you to hopefully fix the problem with your GPU/if the problem continues to happen even after the RMA/replacement card.
 
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But what you said makes literally 0 sense to the actual problem..

In fact other people have reported that you'd only get a small bottleneck with it, but nothing major or bad at all. Definitely no stuttering or lag which this guy is apparently experiencing (and as said, no stuttering or lag with a ATI HD6870)
 
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Thank you very much all you for the answers and for reading the whole thing, i really appreciate it 😉 .

vrumor Thank you for the answer but as Nighterlev said, if my CPU would bottleneck the GPU, at least i should get the same performance than with my ATI, right? Also between stutter and stutter the maximum fps i get are "stable", i mean, without the stutter it should work fine as it does with Fallout 4, in example.
Also, lowest settings and highest has no change on stuttering, it just changes maximum "stable" fps.
If you could explain it more i would appreciate 😉 .

Nighterlev Thanks for the answer too, but i tried The Division with the 6870 without uninstalling programs and was smooth (never above 30fps unless some points), so could they only cause issues with the 1060?
About the Windows 10 reinstall, i think it happens the "same", as with the 6870 had no stutters at all in Solarix (first level) or CSGO; games that are not too demanding, so i could set same settings than with 1060.
So, not sure if i can understand why would that happen.

I accept that, what you both say, makes perfect sense but the results are different from what could be expected, so i want to know why or what is happening.

Thanks again 😉 .



 
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Small stuttering or slight lag here and there while playing demanding games like The Divison for example on the ATI HD6870 is normal. Why? Because The Divison is pretty demanding.

Any demanding game on the HD6870 stuttering is just a sign that it's maxing out what that GPU can do (because of how old it is) Try playing older titles on it, and see if the stutter still happens. If not, then what I said was correct. Your GTX 1060 appears to be faulty, or some weird driver issues are happening with it.

As I said before, a fresh install of Windows 10 would be best for you to see if the stuttering continues to happen. If it doesn't, then it was a software issue. If it does, then it's a hardware issue.

If the same settings for the HD6870 with no stutters is present on the GTX 1060 and you end up getting stutters, then yea. It's likely a driver issue to deal with Nvidia's drivers, or it could be a faulty GTX 1060. Whichever one it is, I'd bet my money that it's a faulty card (Most tend to be)
 
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Thanks 😉 .
Actually with the 6870 i had no stuttering (just some "stable" frame drops, or just low frames, on some games, otherwise it was smooth even not getting a lot of "maximum" frames); on older titles (Solarix, CSGO,...) i had 0 stuttering without a doubt, while with the 1060 i had micro-stuttering.

And if it is a faulty card how could i run games like DOOM demo or Fallout 4 without problems? (i think it is a faulty card too, but this question annoys me 😛 ).
 
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Like I said, it could very well be driver issues rather then the card it-self.

DOOM uses the Vulakan API along with the fact that it's extremely optimized for just about anything. You could technically run DOOM on a card that's even older then the HD 6870 more then likely.

Other then that, I can't really answer it all that well simply because faults will happen, and go away in a instant. No one truely really knows why problems with 1 game seems to happen, but problems with others don't happen at all.
 
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I see.
If it is drivers problems it would explain why there are a lot of people having the same problems, on the same games, and mainly with Nvidias, but, if that's it, i have no idea how NVIDIA has not fixed it already as a lot of people has the same (also it does not explain the different "fixes" people have found).

I actually played DOOM demo on my 6870 and i think it didn't run bad, just ugly xD .

I am a bit worried of trying to buy the same card again, that's why i want to be sure to know where is the problem from, the card-drivers or my hardware-software.

So, the PCIe 2.0-3.0 is not the problem, right?
And NVIDIAs usually has been better than ATIs with drivers?

Whish there were an easy way to point the culprit 😛 .


UPDATE
Not sure if same but this sounds too familiar to me:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-3428870/geforce-gtx-1060-6gb-fps-stuttering-drops.html
 
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No. It's not the problem at all, or at least it shouldn't be.


Actually..Yes and no. NVIDIA drivers at 1st are amazing ,but over time they start to act up and act all glitchy etc..while AMD drivers are literally the complete opposite because they definitely do get better over time.

 
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-Bios is up to date (FH); well, last bios is from 2012 so i updated arround then and no new bios ( https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-X58A-UD3R-rev-20#support-dl )

-Temperaturess are fine on both CPU and GPU, they work as they should.

-Power conectors: 6 pin power connector plugged in without a doubt (otherwise i think i could not run Fallout 4 or ARK or DOOM at all).



Pretty interesting answer, mainly the drivers one, as i thought NVIDIA was always good; that could explain why some people say that after installing some drivers games run bad when it went fine before.



-After reading the thread i posted earlier ( http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-3428870/geforce-gtx-1060-6gb-fps-stuttering-drops.html ), i have been thinking all night (between sleep and sleep xD ) and i think that thread plus other comments i have been reading for months, confirms the problems is on the card without a doubt.

As you can read there, the user said that he is having problems with 2 games i am having problems too (The Division and CSGO), and (looks like) they are the same problems.
He tried reinstalling Windows and didn't work (this is why i didn't answer this part helpstar 😉 ), he tried it on a friend's computer with same result too; so that makes 3 different people that i guess has not the same installed or the same Windows errors, having the same problems.

This makes me think that the problem is on the card (almost 100% sure): maybe a lot of Pascal* cards are released faulty, or are designed to be compatible only with some hardware, or maybe it is a drivers problem.

*=some people with 9xx series has same problems with same games too (i.e. 980ti + Rampage V Extreme + i7 6800K + 16GB DDR4 3200MHz + 1500W PSU by Corsair <- he "fixed" it with an SSD), so maybe not pascal only.

Otherwise i cannot understand why so many people has the same problems with so different hardware parts (some with 1080 and high end computers).

So, at least in my case it is pretty clear my hardware is incompatible with GTX 1060, so they are discarded for an update.

Now i'm wondering: Will ATI cards work for me or would i get same results?


Thank you very much for your answers, they help me A LOT and, please, if you don't agree with anything i say, tell me as i would love to know it -the more information the better- 😉 .
 
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Well, it´s not always that simple. What helped others could not help you or other way around.
A friend of mine has a ASUS deluxe board with an i7 920 and a GTX970 and has no problem at all, but is using windows 7 for now. Maybe win10 is the culprit. Chipset drivers, installed software/apps,...
 
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It makes sense, i have heard that W7 works better than W10, and i have sometimes thought that with 7 i could have no problems.

But still i find it weird how so many different people has problems than seem the same. Maybe all of them have W10, but still i think it should be a way to "fix" it; maybe with NVIDIA drivers or patching Windows 10 (NVIDIA should complain to MS).
But, also, it is a bit weird than a HD6870 with no even drivers for W10 works better than a 1060 that is modern.
It could be too that Pascal is designed to work only with PCIe 3.0, as NVIDIA tells me, but still there are people with problems on 3.0...

And agree with "What helped others could not help you or other way around" as i have seen that on comments too, but what is the same is the micro-stuttering we all have.



What is clear (almost xD ) for me now, is that with 1060s i will have stuttering (unless i change something i don't know what can be by now), but will i get it with ATIs?
RX Vega should be released soon, right?
 
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It's called consoleportitis...
Limit your framerate to what you got with your old GPU and go crazy high or low with your settings and all will be good, there will be no more stutter.

Console ports have zero means of synchronizing their threads between them so they run too fast chocking up your system you have to limit how fast the threads run by hand! ...

You can also tweak the threads themselves but that is pretty tedious.
https://youtu.be/lUsPOTv_pu8
 
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Lol, good term "consoleportitis" xD .
Actually this is what i did on the Ghost Recon Wildlands Open Beta, i limited it to 30fps and i set everything to highest posible, this way i could play it a bit but i clearly had stuttering; didn't try this on The Division (didn't know it could be done :/ ) but on the old HD6870 i think it was stable, yep i had stuttering from time to time but i think they were frame drops because the card was "at its limit".

Also on other colsole ports like Steep i had smooth gameplay (Steep and Ghost Recon Wildlands are arround the same date).
And i had these on PC games like Couter Strike or Solarix (first level), so i think this must be a different problem, but of course i don't really know if the cause is the same.

Also i don't think what i had is the same than what happens on the video you posted as i had high fps (more than 60; 80 or more, can't remember) and then it went down to 20-30, then back up, and that all time; and on the video you posted it feels like "trembling" (with problems to access menus too, and i could access them without problem).

But yes, console ports do a lot of "damage" xD , fortunatelly sometimes seems that they are improving a bit 😛 .

But thanks for the answer (now i know the fps limit on The Division 😉 ).
 
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But i don't understand why i have 0 stutter with an old ATI HD6870 and i have micro-stuttering with a GTX 1060 (same settings, same games).
These fixes seems to be for a CPU problem, but in my case i change the GPU and there is where i get the problem.
Maybe am i missing something?

And also i have different specs than others and they seem to have same problems (i could have a weak CPU but others have a pretty new-strong one).

I don't know, but i think my problem is not that i cannot get good performance (i can on certain games like Fallout 4 or ARK, and i get a lot of fps on other games, just interrupted with stutters -and at highest quality settings and at lowest i get the same-); that is why i think my problems are related with the GPU (almost without a doubt) but not sure if because incompatible with something of my hardware or some software (i'm thinking on Windows 10 itself) is messing with the NVIDIA drivers.

That's why i am thinking on trying an ATI, as if the problem is not the GPU then i will get problems again, or on the other hand if the problem was the GPU (hardware or drivers), then i will have smooth gameplay (bottlenecked by my CPU, but smoth).
But i want to know everything i can to try to buy a card that works and avoid "trying" as i could not get a refund this time.
 
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The games have problems synchronizing,that's why it seems so random and happens to a lot of people no matter how good their hardware is.
The videos just show you that it's a problem with the threads the devs could put a little effort into their games and make them run smooth,or at least smoother,on PC.

"These fixes seems to be for a CPU problem, but in my case i change the GPU"
Changing the GPU made your CPU work harder,it's a CPU problem for you as well.
 
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Windows 10 is 100% definitely not the culprit. Maybe back in 2016 when it released, but now? Nonnononono.

My best bet is that maybe you installed 2 different version's of Nvidia drivers, or perhaps something else went wrong with the installation both times you installed them with both windows installation. What went wrong? I have no idea.

But honestly, my best bet is that your GTX 1060 clearly had problems to begin with, so you could try getting another and see if it works fine, if not, then I'd probably go and get the AMD equivalent instead. Problems should hopefully be fixed after that, if not, then there's clearly something wrong with your motherboard, or with the GPU's just not being compatible with it.


Just curious, but when you re-installed Windows 10, did you make sure it was fully updated and all from the get go before you did any testing?

As for the Vega GPU's, apparently they are releasing at the end of July, so next month.

 
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Did you check the HDD/SSD with its manufacturer´s tool? Firmware of these updated?

memtest.org autoinstaller booted from an usb flash drive?

temperatures all fine while prime95 (option smallfft) is running for about 10min?
temperatures for GPU with furmark stress test for about 10min?

please run 3dmark time spy (free demo), after it click on compare result online and post the link of your browser

maybe defective GTX 1060

 
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Thank you all for the answers 😉 .

TerryLaze, don't get angry on me as i don't know a lot about subjet ( 😛 😉 ) but, why would just a change of GPU make the CPU work harder on same games-settings? It would be like if adding more ram would do the same? And if that would be the case would that not be a problem with the drivers of the GPU or that the GPU is designed to "need" more hardware?
And if what you said is true, how people with powerful CPUs get same behavoir that others with weaker CPUs? I mean, even if the GPUs make the CPU work harder on same settings they should be able to hadle it.
As i said sorry if what i say makes no sense, but maybe i don't understand how these things really work 😉 .


Nighterlev No, i have never reinstalled my Windows, sorry for the confusion, what i said is that on the thread i posted the user reinstalled it and used it on a friends computer with same result; that is why i said that maybe it is W10 as i doubt we all 3 had same programs or Windows errors (but i think that it should be more a Pascal-NVIDIA-drivers problem).
Also i tried several NVIDIA drivers (DDU) and had no change at all.
Your "plan" 😛 😉 , sounds the good one, and i think i will have to do it, as it seems too difficult to try to find the problem without testing.
And thanks for the answer on Vega release, i think it is worthy to wait.


RobCrezz Can i ask what Windows do you have? (i know no all W10 have problems but...).
And thanks about 2.0 working fine 😉 , i have seen tests and comments and everybody says it should have no effect (1%), and people with 3.0 have same problems too...
And i didn't do a Windows reinstall, as once i put back my 6870 thought it was weird to get more stable performance. Then i could get a refund on the card, so i took it and now i am trying to find what happened to choose a "replacement".


helpstar
-Did you check the HDD/SSD with its manufacturer´s tool? Firmware of these updated?
Nope (i tried some long time ago -all ok-, but i think not with NVIDIA). I didn't know there were Firmwares for HDDs, or better i thought they were not too important to affect.
Should i check HDD (and other test you ask me) now or is it wothless now that don't have 1060 anymore?
-memtest.org autoinstaller booted from an usb flash drive?
Again, did it long time ago, but i think once i bought the PC. What i did is to disable XMP that made the MB to work with 1600, and now is at 1033; but i feel no change at all.
-temperatures all fine while prime95 (option smallfft) is running for about 10min?
temperatures for GPU with furmark stress test for about 10min?
please run 3dmark time spy (free demo), after it click on compare result online and post the link of your browser
Let me link you to the tests i did when i first bought the card (hope it's, at least, part of what you are asking me 😉 ):
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3161988/gpu-buy-computer.html#18828552
Also i have a recent screenshot of temps (GPUz) and log playing arround 15min. Killing Floor 2, do you want it?


-maybe defective GTX 1060
Yep, but i don't understand why others have same problems with different hardware; that's why i say that maybe it is because a lot of 1060s are faulty, or drivers have something bad or they are designed to be compatible only to some hardware or maybe it is some Software (mainly W10 as i doubt we all have the same).



Thank you all again (i am saving this for future tests and i am learning some things 😉 ).


 
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