[SOLVED] HELP! Upgrading/Building PC (Is it worth it?)

KrEnX47

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MY CURRENT BUILD:
GPU:
RTX 2070 Super AORUS 8G, 8GB GDDR6, PCI-E 3.0 (Upgraded already from my GTX 970)
CPU: Intel Core i7 6700 BOX Skylake
PSU: COOLER MASTER MWE 650W 80+ Gold
RAM: KINGSTON HyperX Fury 16GB (4x4GB) 2133Mhz DDR4
SSD: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro Series 1TB NVMe SSD, PCIe 3.0
SSD2: SSD Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" SATA3
Motherboard: GIGABYTE Z170-GAMING K3
Monitor: 1080p 60hz Samsung 32" C530 LCD TV
Case: ANTEC GX505
Windows: 10


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WHAT I'M GOALING AT:
GPU:
RTX 2070 Super AORUS 8G, 8GB GDDR6, PCI-E 3.0
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3,6/4,4GHz 32MB AM4
PSU: COOLER MASTER MWE 650W 80+ Gold
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws V 32GB (4x8GB) 3600MHz DDR4 CL16
SSD: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro Series 1TB NVMe SSD, PCIe 3.0
SSD2: SSD Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" SATA3
Motherboard: ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming
Monitor: Asus PG278QR
Case: Cooler Master Trooper SE
Windows: 10



CPU:
Ryzen 3700X
OR
i7 9700K / Intel i9 9900K

Need a CPU that will be fine for 5-10 years, as I upgrade a GPU in far future.

RAM:
32GB (4x8GB) 3600MHz CL16
OR
16GB (2x8GB) 3200MHz CL14

Price is more or less the same, what's better to go with?

Motherboard:
ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming
OR
B450 Tomahawk MAX

Same question as for CPU, if I want 5-10 years future proof PC, should I just pay 200€ more and get X570 or will Tomahawk do just fine?

OVERALL:
Seeing my build right now, is it worth upgrading anything AT all, to gain performance slightly? I dont want ANY game to have under 50-60 FPS. Right now there's still games that can drop me down to 15-30 FPS (ARK Survival Evolved, but only inside base with lots of animals and structures, outside is 50-80)

As of right now I'd love to enjoy ARK mostly, and the 15-30 FPS bullshit needs to be gone.

If I have to pay a bit more if it's 100% worth it money/performance wise, I'd do so... I'd like to save as much money as possible, but not on cost of performance.
Please... let me know where should I cheap out on things and where not, any help is greatly appreciated. I'd like to know what to buy before black firday.

If anyone needs a highly detailed information about my PC questions&concerns:
Was getting barely any response to that, guessing it's too much details, why I decided to make a short version with main points I 100% need answers to asap.

Best Regards,
KrEnX47
 
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Darkbreeze

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For any graphics card and system up to an RX 5700 XT or RTX 2080 TI, a 650w PSU is plenty, IF it is a high quality model. IF you are going to be doing substantial overclocking of the CPU and graphics card, THEN you will probably want a 750w model. Since basically everything out currently sucks at overclocking, not counting the graphics cards, there's almost no point in even bothering with it. Even if you plan to overclock the graphics card some, a 650w high quality unit is still plenty because the recommendation for a 2080 TI is only 600w (And you probably won't be getting a 2080 TI anyhow, so less than that for something lower like an RTX 2070) and the recommendation for the RX 5700 XT is only 550w, so even more headroom there already. Just as examples after all.

See here for the capacity recommendations:

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

So pretty much no matter what you go with, a very good 650w unit is more than enough AND most very good units are capable of supplying a bit more than their rated capacity anyhow for short bursts, so if you have some spikes you should still be fine. It certainly won't HURT anything to get a 750w model, again, a good one, but you certainly don't ever want to start getting those thoughts in your head like some people do that if you get a 750w unit it can be a little lower quality because of the extra capacity. One answer for that. No.

If you get a 750w unit you want to get one that is built on a quality platform and is reliable, just the same as if you get a 650w (Or any capacity) unit.

As far as the rest of it goes, I think you've been given a lot of good information here so I'm not going to hash it all out all over again and I certainly can't TELL you what you should buy. If it were ME buying right now, it would probably be a 3700x or 3800x and either a Tomahawk or Gaming Pro carbon B450 board, if not one a little better than either of those. But those are plenty good for those CPUs and as shown in the review I linked you to earlier, even for a 3900x.

That being said, even a Ryzen 3600 is going to give you several years of good gaming performance. I'd opt for the 3700x just because it has slightly higher clocks, and a few extra cores, so it SHOULD remain relevant at least marginally longer before it needs to be upgraded and when it does, if you don't want to upgrade the whole platform, you can always find a 3900x or possibly by then even a 3950x for an extra shot in the arm.

For Intel, there is nothing right now worth really doing. The 9900k is expensive. There is no place to go from there if you buy it because the socket is dead. It runs VERY hot so you WILL need to buy exceptionally good aftermarket CPU cooling AND you will want to have a good airflow case with about four good case fans or you will almost certainly have thermal issues especially under extended gaming conditions and even more so if you live somewhere where you have high seasonal ambient temperatures. The 9700k and 9900k are good gaming choices, but there is an investment in cooling needed for both of them as neither comes with a cooler and as I said, there is no place to upgrade to on this socket that is already more than a year old itself. If I thought it was worth the investment right now, I would have upgraded to that platform already.

I will wait, because I can, and see what the next round of Intel and AMD processors looks like and likely pick whichever of them seems the cleverest choice. For you, who need one now and possibly needs to do it under a budget, I think Ryzen is impossible to beat.

Also, if you go with a 9700k or 9900k, you are going to want a really good motherboard, and that's going to add even more on to the price.
 

Darkbreeze

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First thing you need to do is get rid of that cheap chinese cap having power supply. There is no reason to be using a low quality, budget oriented power supply with that kind of hardware. It's a good way to put your hardware in the dirt early.

The upgrade to the 3700x is absolutely worth it. Especially if you are planning on high refresh rate, high FPS gaming.

I have a 6700k, that is overclocked to 4.6Ghz, and it can no longer do what I need it to do now that I have added a 144hz display. If you are only shooting for 60fps, then you're probably ok with the 6700k but with that 165hz display you really want to see over 80FPS most of the time. Technically that display supports G-sync in the entire 30hz-165hz range, but we know higher and closer to peak hz is usually going to net a better result when it comes to your target FPS.

As far as a CPU that will still be good in 5-10 years, there is really no such thing. The 3770k for example, was released in Q2 2012, which is 7 years ago, and those are still viable for some things, but they are severely weak now in gaming and have been for a couple of years. They can still work in a pinch but they are certainly not still "good" or "future proof". Nothing is ever future proof. Games might come out in three years that require CPUs which are 50% more capable than anything that's out right now. We just don't know, and won't know, until that day arrives.

I'd like to believe that the 3700x is going to be suitable for the next five years, but at some point it might just not be enough anymore. If that happens, then 3950x upgrades should be relatively cheap by then, so be sure to buy a good board now so it will support a higher TDP CPU with more cores when that time comes. The board you have selected should probably be fine if that day should arrive.

Also, I deleted your other thread. One thread per topic please.
 

KrEnX47

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First thing you need to do is get rid of that cheap chinese cap having power supply. There is no reason to be using a low quality, budget oriented power supply with that kind of hardware. It's a good way to put your hardware in the dirt early.

The upgrade to the 3700x is absolutely worth it. Especially if you are planning on high refresh rate, high FPS gaming.

I have a 6700k, that is overclocked to 4.6Ghz, and it can no longer do what I need it to do now that I have added a 144hz display. If you are only shooting for 60fps, then you're probably ok with the 6700k but with that 165hz display you really want to see over 80FPS most of the time. Technically that display supports G-sync in the entire 30hz-165hz range, but we know higher and closer to peak hz is usually going to net a better result when it comes to your target FPS.

As far as a CPU that will still be good in 5-10 years, there is really no such thing. The 3770k for example, was released in Q2 2012, which is 7 years ago, and those are still viable for some things, but they are severely weak now in gaming and have been for a couple of years. They can still work in a pinch but they are certainly not still "good" or "future proof". Nothing is ever future proof. Games might come out in three years that require CPUs which are 50% more capable than anything that's out right now. We just don't know, and won't know, until that day arrives.

I'd like to believe that the 3700x is going to be suitable for the next five years, but at some point it might just not be enough anymore. If that happens, then 3950x upgrades should be relatively cheap by then, so be sure to buy a good board now so it will support a higher TDP CPU with more cores when that time comes. The board you have selected should probably be fine if that day should arrive.

Also, I deleted your other thread. One thread per topic please.
Hey, thank you for your respond.

When I upgraded my GPU I also upgraded my old 550W PSU that was making some weird chirping sounds, thought I made a good pick, as it was an A+ but now it seems to be a B+ looking at this new list they made
What PSU would you recommend me then? I'm kinda annoyed now that I'll have to buy a thing I already bought and checked off my concerns list, but good thing I guess as I do NOT want my pc in dirt early.

Anyways, so you'd say 3700X is a better choise than going for i9 9900K? Looking at future that is, with new GPU's needing a still-strong CPU. Or you only meant as if I go with better monitor that is?
Lets say I don't upgrade monitor at all, is any of my hardware worth upgrading at all then knowing my current rig?

Also, do you know about what RAM's to go for of what I listed there? I kinda wanted to get 32GB of 3600MHz CL16 but heard CL14 are way better but the cost is double and can get only 16GB of 3200Mhz for same price. Worth it? I'm guessing I should go with CL14 knowing ryzen needs stronger RAMS and be happy with 16, as of now gaming doesn't really need more, but I was hoping to maybe start some projects and editing videos so 32GB might help in that area. Gaming is however still my bigger priority.
 

Darkbreeze

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Moderator
I'm not going to get into what I think of that list, but by the giant frown on my face you should have some idea.

The bottom line, for me, is that your power supply uses cheap caps just like the old CX and VS units did. Those units rarely lasted a year if they were used with moderately to highly demanding gaming systems and I suspect this one is not much different. It's not a fire bomb, but it's likely to break down rather quickly if you're running it with that rather high consumption hardware, especially since it's just about right at the edge of the recommended capacity with no additional headroom at all.

I wouldn't run it with my hardware, which isn't nearly as good as you have and are intending to upgrade to, so I sure as hell wouldn't use it if I HAD the hardware you are going to have. I mean, use it for now, but I'd replace it as soon as it is reasonably possible with a better quality unit. Preferably something of high quality in the 750w range.



As far as RAM goes, if ALL you do is game, then 16GB is "enough" for any gaming system. Yes, there are a few games coming out that claim to be able to use in excess of 16GB, but that doesn't mean they "need" more than that. If you have OTHER reasons for having more than 16GB such as the fact that you do a lot of heavy multitasking while you game, recording, encoding, lots of browser tabs, running any VMs, etc., that might be a good reason to want a bit more. Otherwise, if you are pretty strictly a "straight edge" gamer that just games, period, and you only need what games will use, then 16GB of 3000-3400mhz memory is plenty for the platform you are looking at upgrading to.

The X570-E is a good board. There are a lot of budget X570 boards that are incredibly crappy, but that isn't one of them. You'd be better off with a decent B450 board like the Tomahawk or Pro Carbon than you would with pretty much any of the sub-175.00 X570 boards.

If you're not planning to do this for a while, there are also other boards coming out apparently sometime in the first quarter of next year that are a new chipset for Ryzen, which does not have PCIe 4.0, which currently is somewhat of a waste and letdown anyhow to be honest.
 
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KrEnX47

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Nah, I'm definitely upgrading this year, I have new game map releases for ARK I want to enjoy it fully.

Anyways, thank you again for responds, I'll buy a new PSU then, but could you just suggest me one yourself? I dont trust myself to pick the right thing anymore, even if i find the right model I dont trust to know if it's really the right thing I'm looking at, as sometimes there's lots of bad things being sold that might be with same names but with worse quality.

I order from this sites:
https://www.enaa.com

And https://www.amazon.de (but sometimes they dont ship to my country).


About motherboard, yes I had B450 on my to-buy list already way before, to be specific:
https://www.amazon.de/MSI-B450-AC-DisplayPort-Mainboard/dp/B07FP11742
This board and at even later date:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07VB2BG3X
This one. As it's supposed to be BIOS ready and the other one i'd need to update myself, or am i wrong?

But reason I started looking for better was cause I got told to buy a better board that future GPU's or CPU's will still support it in near future if I really plan on not upgrading for longer period of time. As if this two I just linked aren't good enough I'll just go with X570 I linked before.

And final RAM question (dont hate me :p), I still want to know what's better, if you don't look at what I need, CL14 of 16GB (3200MHZ) or CL16 of 32GB (3600MHz) overall what would give me better performance results. And yes I do have 20 tabs open in a browser in background while I game, and my shadowplay from nvidia is always on, and i do plan on using editing programs sometimes.

Cheers
 

Darkbreeze

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Moderator
Personally, I'd go with 3600mhz sticks for Zen2 on X570. You don't really want to go with 4 x8GB. That just creates more stress on the memory controller AND Ryzen doesn't guarantee that speed if you use four sticks. It's possible, but that speed is only guaranteed with a two DIMM configuration so it's just as possible that you'd have to reduce the speed to get all four sticks to work. 2 x16GB would be much better AND it would leave you two open DIMM slots to add more later if you for some reason needed to and were willing to risk the drop in speed to get the additional capacity.

Anything listed here if you can get them. 3600mhz at CL16 in a 2 x16GB kit will be very good sticks.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#s=403600&Z=32768002&sort=price&L=30,160


I'd look at one of these power supplies. All very high quality.

https://www.funtech.si/si/vsi-oddelki/komp/napajalniki/atx-modularni/od-600w-do-699w/71075/


https://www.funtech.si/si/vsi-oddelki/komp/napajalniki/atx-modularni/od-600w-do-699w/68280/


https://www.funtech.si/si/vsi-oddelki/komp/napajalniki/atx-modularni/od-600w-do-699w/72078/
 

KrEnX47

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Personally, I'd go with 3600mhz sticks for Zen2 on X570. You don't really want to go with 4 x8GB. That just creates more stress on the memory controller AND Ryzen doesn't guarantee that speed if you use four sticks. It's possible, but that speed is only guaranteed with a two DIMM configuration so it's just as possible that you'd have to reduce the speed to get all four sticks to work. 2 x16GB would be much better AND it would leave you two open DIMM slots to add more later if you for some reason needed to and were willing to risk the drop in speed to get the additional capacity.

Anything listed here if you can get them. 3600mhz at CL16 in a 2 x16GB kit will be very good sticks.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#s=403600&Z=32768002&sort=price&L=30,160


I'd look at one of these power supplies. All very high quality.

https://www.funtech.si/si/vsi-oddelki/komp/napajalniki/atx-modularni/od-600w-do-699w/71075/


https://www.funtech.si/si/vsi-oddelki/komp/napajalniki/atx-modularni/od-600w-do-699w/68280/


https://www.funtech.si/si/vsi-oddelki/komp/napajalniki/atx-modularni/od-600w-do-699w/72078/
Hey again, I finalized my builds I'd like an opinion before I order:


COST:
-------------------------
Cheap:
GPU: 670€ (RTX 2070 Super)
CPU: 338€ (Ryzen 7 3700X)
PSU: 100€ (650W)
MB: 112€ (Tomahawk B450 MAX)
SSD: 140€ (SX8200)
RAM: 136€ (G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200Mhz 2x16GB)
CASE: 93€ (Azza Inferno 310B)
MNTR: 613€ (Asus PG278QR)
::::::::::::::::
2202‬€ --> 1784€(-19%)
-------------------------
Expensive:
GPU: 670€ (RTX 2070 Super)
CPU: 338€ (Ryzen 7 3700X)
PSU: 140€ (750W)
MB: 300€ (ASUS ROG Strix X570-E Gaming)
SSD: 200€ (970 EVO Pro)
RAM: 213€ (G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600Mhz 2x16GB)
CASE: 146€ (Coolermaster Trooper SE)
MNTR: 613€ (Asus PG278QR)
:::::::::::::::
2620€‬ ---> 2123€(-19%)

-The (-19% ) that's a discount I'm gonna be getting on final price.

-The PSU, is one of the ones you listed me so I only used the W's in description.
Actually I can ask you another PSU question, if I can get a 850W Flower Leadex III for 125€ or Corsair 750W for 140€ what should I pick? Corsair seems more reliable why I guess the higher price, but you said all those 3 above are good picks so now I wonder. The 750W Flower Ledex is out of stock why I ask.

-The Monitor, I'd just want to ask, you got any better recommendations or do you think PG278QR is a great choise? Couldn't find accross anything better so far.


But yah overall, what's more worth to go with the cheaper or expensive?

Edit: Not like it matters, but in case you wonder why I listed a full-PC list now, it's cause I'm building a complete PC for my sibling as well, and I'll buy what I miss myself seperately.
 
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Darkbreeze

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The B450 Tomahawk max gave better results in testing than the X570-E, so that's a no brainer since it's less expensive anyhow.

For the M.2 SSD, I'd try to go with a 970 EVO or EVO Plus if possible, but if not then I'd try to stick to one of the models by Intel, Crucial or Sandisk. They are big players that have been around much longer than these other companies and there is a reason why people believe their products have better reliability, it's because they do.

What SIZE of M.2 SSD are you planning to go with?

I think you'll have more success, and measurably better performance, with the 3600mhz Neo sticks than the 3200mhz Ripjaws, but both will likely work. I would verify that the Ripjaws show as compatible by using the G.Skill memory configurator available on their website to verify compatibility.

From what I can see, and I have not used one myself so I can say from personal experience, but reviews show that monitor to be pretty good.
 

KrEnX47

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The B450 Tomahawk max gave better results in testing than the X570-E, so that's a no brainer since it's less expensive anyhow.

For the M.2 SSD, I'd try to go with a 970 EVO or EVO Plus if possible, but if not then I'd try to stick to one of the models by Intel, Crucial or Sandisk. They are big players that have been around much longer than these other companies and there is a reason why people believe their products have better reliability, it's because they do.

What SIZE of M.2 SSD are you planning to go with?

I think you'll have more success, and measurably better performance, with the 3600mhz Neo sticks than the 3200mhz Ripjaws, but both will likely work. I would verify that the Ripjaws show as compatible by using the G.Skill memory configurator available on their website to verify compatibility.

From what I can see, and I have not used one myself so I can say from personal experience, but reviews show that monitor to be pretty good.
What kind of better results? I'd not mind a differnt X570. I'd just want to be able to upgrade CPU or GPU in 5 years or whenever it's needed that's all. If B450 Tomahawk Max can provide me that I'd be more than happy to save 200 euros.
My very first look before i started looking for X570 was also this:
But think this one would need a bios update then, and i try to avoid as much complications as possible.

My m.2's would be 1TB. I've seen reviews of ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro being better than 970 evo at much cheaper price why I bought that one in past, my friend recommended it, you think it was a wrong choise? And right now it's 60 euros difference betwen them so, I wanna know before ordering it for my sibling, who needs to save as much money as it's on budget (but not on performance/reliability cost)

About monitor, don't worry about it, my only issues when all of them is that they all seems to have some sort of issues, this one is TN, and i heard it has angle viewing issues and some screen clouding or what it's named, while IPS has this IPS glow on edges and what-not. Kinda upset to hear that as I'm currently in love with my current 60Hz screen, but I want to feel the 144-164Hz feeling everyone is so hyped about.
 
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Darkbreeze

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My apologies. I stuck my foot in my mouth this time. It was not the X570-E I was thinking of. It was actually one of the MSI X570 boards. Or several of them actually, which is surprising since their B450 offerings were for the most part very good.



Any B450 motherboard with BIOS flashback, which means mostly MSI and one or two high end ASUS boards like the Crosshair Hero, are a simple matter of downloading the BIOS update, unzipping it onto a flash drive, sticking it into the correct USB port on the back of the motherboard and pushing a button. Literally that easy.
 

KrEnX47

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My apologies. I stuck my foot in my mouth this time. It was not the X570-E I was thinking of. It was actually one of the MSI X570 boards. Or several of them actually, which is surprising since their B450 offerings were for the most part very good.



Any B450 motherboard with BIOS flashback, which means mostly MSI and one or two high end ASUS boards like the Crosshair Hero, are a simple matter of downloading the BIOS update, unzipping it onto a flash drive, sticking it into the correct USB port on the back of the motherboard and pushing a button. Literally that easy.
Looking at that link, it DOES tempt me to just buy a B450, I see they suggest to buy a 3950X ryzen when they go cheaper, but what IF i want to even skip those and go for 4000+ versions or what ever they'll release in, lets say 5 years? I hear all the time B450 are best option, yes I agree, but then I hear the "buts" of going for a great X570 that secures the future better to leave out all options for a very long time.

Yet another key, that plays a very important part for my wishes, what will be better regarding heat? X570-E or B450? I dont want my stuff overheating and being forced on better cooling, i want to use ryzen's stock cooler i wont really over-clock much, my current system runs at 20-40C most of the time, i'm pretty happy. I want to focus a good case with airflow, good motherboard that doesn't heat stuff up, and the ryzen cooler seems pretty good. So knowing all that, what should I go for? I need to order very soon, not mean to rush, thank you for all your time and help so far, it was very useful.


EDIT:
I used the G.Skill memory configurator, for B450 Tomahawk MAX, doesn't seems like they have any 3600 Mhz tests there, does it even suppot that high of a ram? :/

EDIT2:
Actually I can ask you another PSU question, if I can get a 850W Flower Leadex III for 125€ or Corsair 750W for 140€ what should I pick? Corsair seems more reliable why I guess the higher price, but you said all those 3 above are good picks so now I wonder. The 750W Flower Ledex is out of stock why I ask.
Also you never answered me on that?
(sorry if I ask too much)
 
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Darkbreeze

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No guarantee B450 will work with those, and in fact it probably won't. BUT, as well, X570 won't either if B450 doesn't in all probability. The socket compatibility was only promised through 2020 which is a month away, so anything coming out after the end of December may or may not be compatible with existing AM4 motherboards.

You do not ask too much, I simply fail to answer all questions sometimes because my brains are mush. LOL.

That depends on WHICH Corsair 750w unit you are looking at, and the price.

As far as the memory goes, I've noticed that as well. However, for surety, you can always go with a G.Skill Flare X or Trident Z Neo kit, which are specifically designed for Ryzen platforms. There are 3600mhz flavors of those, but what is available changes and depletes all the time so it's a day to day thing sometimes. As far as other non-AMD specific memory kits, choosing ANY memory kit that uses Samsung B-die IC's (Memory chips, used on the memory modules themselves) will almost certainly work with Ryzen but those kits are usually a bit more expensive than other kits because they are not cheap to make. They do however also tend to offer MUCH tighter timings, with CL14 CAS latency being common for 3000-3200mhz kits, and CL16 being common for some higher speed kits.

You can identify which kits are B-die here:


And here:

Clearing up any B-die confusion



Ryzen has gotten much better about memory compatibility, so many other kits MIGHT work, but when using any non-AMD specific memory kit such as Flare X or Neo, or anything not using B-die IC's, it is preferred to compare to the motherboard QVL "OR" the memory manufacturers "finder/configurator" when possible. Beyond that, well, it's a crapshoot and some times you simply have to roll the dice and risk needing to return a kit that doesn't want to work with your hardware. It's not that common anymore, but it happens enough to be worth mentioning. Making sure you have the latest BIOS revision for your motherboard is the best way to ensure the widest possible compatibility.
 
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KrEnX47

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No guarantee B450 will work with those, and in fact it probably won't. BUT, as well, X570 won't either if B450 doesn't in all probability. The socket compatibility was only promised through 2020 which is a month away, so anything coming out after the end of December may or may not be compatible with existing AM4 motherboards.

You do not ask too much, I simply fail to answer all questions sometimes because my brains are mush. LOL.

That depends on WHICH Corsair 750w unit you are looking at, and the price.

As far as the memory goes, I've noticed that as well. However, for surety, you can always go with a G.Skill Flare X or Trident Z Neo kit, which are specifically designed for Ryzen platforms. There are 3600mhz flavors of those, but what is available changes and depletes all the time so it's a day to day thing sometimes. As far as other non-AMD specific memory kits, choosing ANY memory kit that uses Samsung B-die IC's (Memory chips, used on the memory modules themselves) will almost certainly work with Ryzen but those kits are usually a bit more expensive than other kits because they are not cheap to make. They do however also tend to offer MUCH tighter timings, with CL14 CAS latency being common for 3000-3200mhz kits, and CL16 being common for some higher speed kits.

You can identify which kits are B-die here:


And here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/



Ryzen has gotten much better about memory compatibility, so many other kits MIGHT work, but when using any non-AMD specific memory kit such as Flare X or Neo, or anything not using B-die IC's, it is preferred to compare to the motherboard QVL "OR" the memory manufacturers "finder/configurator" when possible. Beyond that, well, it's a crapshoot and some times you simply have to roll the dice and risk needing to return a kit that doesn't want to work with your hardware. It's not that common anymore, but it happens enough to be worth mentioning. Making sure you have the latest BIOS revision for your motherboard is the best way to ensure the widest possible compatibility.
I feel more confused than before now haha, checked thosel links and I do see 3600Mhz rams there, but no clue what all this means even.

Well I'll tell you this, when I bought this PC best card was like 1080 Ti, and I went with 970 wanting to upgrade later, BUT as you can see I skipped the 1080Ti and just went with 2070 Super, so i'm pretty sure I'll end up just buying a new PC in all just like now skipping the 2080 Ti and going with what ever is in a new afordable range with not that much less performance difference.

So if I look at that, I should probably stop dreaming on long terms and just go with B450 as long as it satisfies my needs. Or will B450 get way too old as they're basically "old" already?

Thing is, I have this topic and 2 friends that work at IT for help. One friend tells me X570 secures much more compability issues for future,(he actually even pushes me to intel insted of ryzen) while the other friend tells me to go with ryzen and that B450 is more than enough and it's nonsense to buy a X570. And here I get a mix of both... it's been 2 weeks of driving myself nuts over this, and I'm getting really exhausted, I just wanna order and have fun already...
I dont even enjoy any of my games cause I wanna wait for new PC parts so I can enjoy them even more than I would now, can we just skip the corners and get to the point... You tell me a lot of stuff I half-understand sometimes i'm not an IT guy but I do understand good enough, as logic helps me a lot, but in a lot of cases it just confuses me a bit and making me unsure of my decisions, and mostly you also leave decisions to me, which I can't do, why I came here so others can decide for me knowing my views and thinking as they know stuff and hardware better than me.

Anyways to get to answering your question, you linked me 3 PSU's so Corsair was the one you linked me above, only the 650W not 750W. As you said I should have extra room and not be on bare limit of 650W, not sure why you linked me 650W after but I took your advice there and went looking for 750W sadly all out of stock, but I called the company and they said the CAN get me a Corsair with 750W.
Actually I'll just link you the two I asked you about before:

It appears that price even went down now for Corsair, so they're practically same price now.

So yah, give me your best recommendation on what I should do, knowing my current rig and my wishes, and if I should just wait it out longer before upgrading I guess I could do that too, maybe just buy monitor and nothing else? But I dont know... I feel like I'll need stronger stuff for 1440p gaming. But for my sibling I'll still need to know exactly what to buy as that PC is getting 100C on games and it's just a mess already, needs a full new so we can start gaming again.
 
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Darkbreeze

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For any graphics card and system up to an RX 5700 XT or RTX 2080 TI, a 650w PSU is plenty, IF it is a high quality model. IF you are going to be doing substantial overclocking of the CPU and graphics card, THEN you will probably want a 750w model. Since basically everything out currently sucks at overclocking, not counting the graphics cards, there's almost no point in even bothering with it. Even if you plan to overclock the graphics card some, a 650w high quality unit is still plenty because the recommendation for a 2080 TI is only 600w (And you probably won't be getting a 2080 TI anyhow, so less than that for something lower like an RTX 2070) and the recommendation for the RX 5700 XT is only 550w, so even more headroom there already. Just as examples after all.

See here for the capacity recommendations:

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

So pretty much no matter what you go with, a very good 650w unit is more than enough AND most very good units are capable of supplying a bit more than their rated capacity anyhow for short bursts, so if you have some spikes you should still be fine. It certainly won't HURT anything to get a 750w model, again, a good one, but you certainly don't ever want to start getting those thoughts in your head like some people do that if you get a 750w unit it can be a little lower quality because of the extra capacity. One answer for that. No.

If you get a 750w unit you want to get one that is built on a quality platform and is reliable, just the same as if you get a 650w (Or any capacity) unit.

As far as the rest of it goes, I think you've been given a lot of good information here so I'm not going to hash it all out all over again and I certainly can't TELL you what you should buy. If it were ME buying right now, it would probably be a 3700x or 3800x and either a Tomahawk or Gaming Pro carbon B450 board, if not one a little better than either of those. But those are plenty good for those CPUs and as shown in the review I linked you to earlier, even for a 3900x.

That being said, even a Ryzen 3600 is going to give you several years of good gaming performance. I'd opt for the 3700x just because it has slightly higher clocks, and a few extra cores, so it SHOULD remain relevant at least marginally longer before it needs to be upgraded and when it does, if you don't want to upgrade the whole platform, you can always find a 3900x or possibly by then even a 3950x for an extra shot in the arm.

For Intel, there is nothing right now worth really doing. The 9900k is expensive. There is no place to go from there if you buy it because the socket is dead. It runs VERY hot so you WILL need to buy exceptionally good aftermarket CPU cooling AND you will want to have a good airflow case with about four good case fans or you will almost certainly have thermal issues especially under extended gaming conditions and even more so if you live somewhere where you have high seasonal ambient temperatures. The 9700k and 9900k are good gaming choices, but there is an investment in cooling needed for both of them as neither comes with a cooler and as I said, there is no place to upgrade to on this socket that is already more than a year old itself. If I thought it was worth the investment right now, I would have upgraded to that platform already.

I will wait, because I can, and see what the next round of Intel and AMD processors looks like and likely pick whichever of them seems the cleverest choice. For you, who need one now and possibly needs to do it under a budget, I think Ryzen is impossible to beat.

Also, if you go with a 9700k or 9900k, you are going to want a really good motherboard, and that's going to add even more on to the price.
 

KrEnX47

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For any graphics card and system up to an RX 5700 XT or RTX 2080 TI, a 650w PSU is plenty, IF it is a high quality model. IF you are going to be doing substantial overclocking of the CPU and graphics card, THEN you will probably want a 750w model. Since basically everything out currently sucks at overclocking, not counting the graphics cards, there's almost no point in even bothering with it. Even if you plan to overclock the graphics card some, a 650w high quality unit is still plenty because the recommendation for a 2080 TI is only 600w (And you probably won't be getting a 2080 TI anyhow, so less than that for something lower like an RTX 2070) and the recommendation for the RX 5700 XT is only 550w, so even more headroom there already. Just as examples after all.

See here for the capacity recommendations:

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

So pretty much no matter what you go with, a very good 650w unit is more than enough AND most very good units are capable of supplying a bit more than their rated capacity anyhow for short bursts, so if you have some spikes you should still be fine. It certainly won't HURT anything to get a 750w model, again, a good one, but you certainly don't ever want to start getting those thoughts in your head like some people do that if you get a 750w unit it can be a little lower quality because of the extra capacity. One answer for that. No.

If you get a 750w unit you want to get one that is built on a quality platform and is reliable, just the same as if you get a 650w (Or any capacity) unit.

As far as the rest of it goes, I think you've been given a lot of good information here so I'm not going to hash it all out all over again and I certainly can't TELL you what you should buy. If it were ME buying right now, it would probably be a 3700x or 3800x and either a Tomahawk or Gaming Pro carbon B450 board, if not one a little better than either of those. But those are plenty good for those CPUs and as shown in the review I linked you to earlier, even for a 3900x.

That being said, even a Ryzen 3600 is going to give you several years of good gaming performance. I'd opt for the 3700x just because it has slightly higher clocks, and a few extra cores, so it SHOULD remain relevant at least marginally longer before it needs to be upgraded and when it does, if you don't want to upgrade the whole platform, you can always find a 3900x or possibly by then even a 3950x for an extra shot in the arm.

For Intel, there is nothing right now worth really doing. The 9900k is expensive. There is no place to go from there if you buy it because the socket is dead. It runs VERY hot so you WILL need to buy exceptionally good aftermarket CPU cooling AND you will want to have a good airflow case with about four good case fans or you will almost certainly have thermal issues especially under extended gaming conditions and even more so if you live somewhere where you have high seasonal ambient temperatures. The 9700k and 9900k are good gaming choices, but there is an investment in cooling needed for both of them as neither comes with a cooler and as I said, there is no place to upgrade to on this socket that is already more than a year old itself. If I thought it was worth the investment right now, I would have upgraded to that platform already.

I will wait, because I can, and see what the next round of Intel and AMD processors looks like and likely pick whichever of them seems the cleverest choice. For you, who need one now and possibly needs to do it under a budget, I think Ryzen is impossible to beat.

Also, if you go with a 9700k or 9900k, you are going to want a really good motherboard, and that's going to add even more on to the price.
Now that's exactly what I needed to hear, thank you! :)

Now I only have last two questions.


I like the carbon's design, think it has better audio even, a wifi I also kinda wanted so I dont have to have cables betwen doors. And is that an extra heatsink for the m.2 ssd?

But the Tomahawk seems to have better chances of bios beeing updated to maybe even support ryzen 4000 one day, and will work out of the box for ryzen 3700X.

I've read people go with tomahawk despite other benefits of carbon, I wanna hear your thoughts on that.


Now as second, since you mentioned cases, I'd like your opinion betwen the two i've been looking at:
https://www.amazon.de/Cooler-Master-PC-Gehäuse-Echtglas-Seitenteil-SGC-5000-KWN2/dp/B07B4F2ZF3

Master Cooler is a tower so more space and it has an extra fan up top while inferno case doesn't have it, correct me if i'm wrong. But would both provide similar cooling? Do I even need to worry about this? Should I cheap out with cases or go for something like the cooler master. My current case is like 60 euros and it even has a top fan and lots of openings, i'm super happy with it, nothing overheats, but asking for my sibling right now as my sibling wants inferno more by the looks of it. But we'd not want it on the cost of better cooling.

As of myself, I'm considering to go with Master Cooler and sell my old PC since most of this stuff I'm buying will need re-build of whole system so old stuff might as well stay in my old case and I plug in my old psu and gpu and sell as one.
 

Darkbreeze

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The tomahawk max comes with a BIOS version that supports 3rd gen Ryzen right out of the box. That doesn't mean it won't need to ever be updated though, so in today's world, everybody should get used to the idea of needing to update the BIOS on a schedule that might not be that much different than what we've come to expect from manufacturers on chipset driver updates as a similar example. It is common, and necessary, a lot these days. It's not like the old days where you ONLY updated the BIOS if you had a complete hardware incompatibility that only a new BIOS could fix.

The Gaming Pro Carbon will have to updated, most likely, before it will work at all with a 3rd Gen Ryzen. Not a big deal because it has BIOS flashback.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTkXunUAriE&feature=youtu.be


Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either of those cases. They are both very old designs, and they are lacking in many features which are commonplace on more modern cases these days. There will be far less room and pass through points for cable management, smaller cable management compartment on the backside of the motherboard tray, etc.

That CM case even has an ACTUAL regular glass side panel. Very dangerous in comparison to tempered glass which shatters in many small not-so-sharp pieces. That case is old enough to have been from before the tempered glass conversion period and states right in the description that it is "real glass" rather than tempered glass or acrylic.

I can help you find a better case later on this evening or somebody else can. I'd highly recommend the Fractal design cases like the Define R6 or R5, Define S and S2, Meshify C, etc. The Phanteks cases like the Enthoo pro and Enthoo Pro M. Corsair cases like the Corsair Crystal 460x and 560x, and some other Corsair cases as well. Pay attention because Corsair has both newer and very old case designs for sale much like Cooler master and Thermaltake do.

Even the Fractal design Focus G is a good choice if you want to save some cash and if you add another two fans to it, which you probably need to do for most cases anyhow and should be no problem if you already have a case with some fans in it or can budget for new ones. Obviously, Noctua is first in line in order of preference on any fans. Always. After that, there are a good many options.
 

KrEnX47

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The tomahawk max comes with a BIOS version that supports 3rd gen Ryzen right out of the box. That doesn't mean it won't need to ever be updated though, so in today's world, everybody should get used to the idea of needing to update the BIOS on a schedule that might not be that much different than what we've come to expect from manufacturers on chipset driver updates as a similar example. It is common, and necessary, a lot these days. It's not like the old days where you ONLY updated the BIOS if you had a complete hardware incompatibility that only a new BIOS could fix.

The Gaming Pro Carbon will have to updated, most likely, before it will work at all with a 3rd Gen Ryzen. Not a big deal because it has BIOS flashback.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTkXunUAriE&feature=youtu.be


Honestly, I wouldn't recommend either of those cases. They are both very old designs, and they are lacking in many features which are commonplace on more modern cases these days. There will be far less room and pass through points for cable management, smaller cable management compartment on the backside of the motherboard tray, etc.

That CM case even has an ACTUAL regular glass side panel. Very dangerous in comparison to tempered glass which shatters in many small not-so-sharp pieces. That case is old enough to have been from before the tempered glass conversion period and states right in the description that it is "real glass" rather than tempered glass or acrylic.

I can help you find a better case later on this evening or somebody else can. I'd highly recommend the Fractal design cases like the Define R6 or R5, Define S and S2, Meshify C, etc. The Phanteks cases like the Enthoo pro and Enthoo Pro M. Corsair cases like the Corsair Crystal 460x and 560x, and some other Corsair cases as well. Pay attention because Corsair has both newer and very old case designs for sale much like Cooler master and Thermaltake do.

Even the Fractal design Focus G is a good choice if you want to save some cash and if you add another two fans to it, which you probably need to do for most cases anyhow and should be no problem if you already have a case with some fans in it or can budget for new ones. Obviously, Noctua is first in line in order of preference on any fans. Always. After that, there are a good many options.
I was actually thinking of buyng non-glass CM case on that design, I saw it somewhere I'll have to look again. So lets say that case doesn't have glass, would it be good then?

Also It's good to see you listed the Meshify C there as that's one of the cases I was also considering already:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07MZZZ523
Tho don't think it has top fan. I'll check the rest of the cases soon, and yah if you can help me find best one I'd not mind the help. What I'm after is that it looks somehow cool, with front and top fans. Dont like front completly closed, it has to have airflow since I wont be using water cooling. But temp glass is also welcome since my GPU's and ryzen's stock cooler and rams will all have the RGB.

Speaking of rams, I'm now again stuck on decisions about the 3200-3600Mhz, since the B450 supports 3466 tops, so afraid it might not be stable using 3600Mhz, should I downgrade to 3200 or maybe pick a better CL, dont know...

But that is if I go with the carbon, I think tomahawk supports up to 4100 from what I've been reading online, if that info was correct. I'd really like to go with carbon, also due to RGB on them it will fit good with the rest of my stuff, and I dont mind upgrading bios, i already found the link you sent me earlier today while searching for things. But the ram issues are annoying me right now...
 

Darkbreeze

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Front: 3 x 120mm (1 x Dynamic X2 GP-12 included) / 2 x 140mm fan

Rear: 1 x 120mm Dynamic X2 GP-12 (included)

Top: 2 x 120mm / 2 x 140mm fan


So, it only COMES with two fans, a front X2 and a rear X2. I'd move the front X2 to the top rear location so that there are two exhaust fans, and then GET (Unless you already have a couple of other decent fans) two 140mm fans to stick in front, if you go with the Meshify C.

Meshify C is a good case. Define S (Which is what I have) and the Define S2 are both excellent choices as well. Keep in mind, if you are even a LITTLE bit handy, you can mod most front panels easily for full airflow like I did with my Define S.

This is what it looked like originally.





What I did to the front panel.











 

KrEnX47

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Hey man, sorry for not getting back to you for a few days, I needed to stress out, all this PC part reviewing and decisions and every time I decide on something something else is not ok and I have to change and think and look and... ugh... it's frustrating me over limits, I've been on it for over 2 weeks already.

I love what you've done with your case, very creative :D. I'm usually creative as well but I'm not going to be doing this stuff, I live in a flat, nowhere to cut around and don't have such tools to do so.

Now case is the last thing I'll worry about so let me get back to that at last point.
What's very urgent for me right now is to pick the ram and motherboard and be done with deciding on that.

Now I already set my mind on G.Skill Trident Z Neo 3600Mhz 2x16GB, as I decided to go with X570-E, but now that you've convinced me for B450, I'm having the ram issues again as 3600Mhz might not be stable on B450 board... so I'm guessing if I don't wanna lose performance I'd have to go with CL14 3200Mhz, which I think I would even be a gain, but that'll be double the price, so it's either I give 200 euros for a better motherboard or 200 euros for a better RAM. Or is there ANY way to save those 200 euros and not lose performance or stability?
If I go with X570-E, then RAM isn't the issue and I'm all set, if i go with B450 I have to decide betwen tomahawk and pro carbon as the carbon one seems to have less bios room but a better sound chip with wifi and some good features, while tomahawk might of been better future proof board over carbon, correct me if i'm wrong. But then again, how's the audio on X570-E? Better worse or same? I have to decide either I want the better sound and extra features or better compability with new stuff in future. But I thought the X570-E would gave me all of it, why I picked it before.

What should I do? Going for B450 just created me tons of issues now, was already ready to order before :/.
I do want to save money if possible, but really not on performace loss or any instability, I want everything to work together perfectly!

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Now on second note, my friend is bugging me over limits to go and buy this:




While stuff I want to buy with ryzen build would be 2100-2300€ (depending either I will need to spend those extra 200 euros for ram or motherboard), he said that will last longer, before anything would break or need upgrading and it's worth extra money just for the better PC power.
 
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Darkbreeze

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3600mhz SHOULD be fine on B450 so long as it has an up to date BIOS and is running a 3rd Gen Ryzen CPU. I HAVE seen a few systems that had to drop the memory speed down a notch or two on B450 or X470 with 3 Gen Ryzen installed BUT, those were not memory modules MEANT to be used with AMD platforms like the Neos sticks are, so I'd tend to lean towards that not being a problem but obviously with ANYTHING computer related it is usually best to not assume anything until you can say for certain based on a result rather than an assumption or anecdotal evidence.

Your friend, sorry, but he is either simply an Intel fanboy or is simply over enthusiastic and not fully in the mix so to speak.

Obviously the 9900k is a no brainer for the fact that it's a high end CPU. That doesn't mean either it's the best choice or that it will perform any better than something cheaper. The 3700x for example, kills the 9900k in some games, while in others the 9900k wins out. Clearly it's a high end configuration, but is it necessary? And it will certainly NOT "last longer" just because it's Intel.

Also, the fact that he recommended TWO separate 2 x8GB memory kits tells me he is actually NOT very well informed and lacks experience when it comes to building systems, because no experienced builder would EVER recommend buying two separate kits, by intent, when building a system. They would ALWAYS tell you to buy ALL of your memory in ONE kit so that there can be no problems with incompatibility among the parts. Buying separate kits give you no such assurance, whether it's the same kit or not. They were likely NOT from the same production run and there is always a strong chance of there being differences of some kind, even just the silicon itself, when pairing up sticks that were not made and tested together. I could go on an on about that, but suffice to say that any knowledgeable builder or systems tech would have known that. No excuse for that.

Also, they would have known that on dual channel systems, you ALWAYS want to try and keep to the minimum number of sticks possible, while still achieving the full capacity you desire, because fewer sticks means less stress on the memory controller. If you can get your 32GB with two sticks, and you can, then that is what you want to do unless the price difference for a 2 x16GB kit is astronomical by comparison. Yes, it will be slightly more expensive in some cases, but it is a better choice for a few reasons. Chiefly, it affords better stabilty to the system by creating less stress on the internal memory controller. Also, it creates less heat in the CPU since less power will be required to be run through the memory controller. Additionally, it LEAVES ROOM to add more memory later IF YOU NEED TO, despite the fact that we recommend initially getting all you need in one kit it is good to HAVE the option to at least TRY to add more later, if you need to. You won't, not for a gaming only system, but for professional usage you might.
 

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Alright, thank you for your opinions, this is how my shop list looks like right now:



Still want your opinion on the pro carbon VS tomahawk, i love the pro carbons extra stuff and audio but worries me about future that tomahawk seems to be better for or shouldn't I worry? How far will I even get to upgrade the GPU, you said socket is dead so will I be able to go past 2080 Ti? Knowing I skipped 1080 Ti and moved from 970 to 2070 super, I'm pretty sure I'll be skipping 2080 Ti as well.

Also as you see I have SX8200 there for now, but you recommended me 970 Evo, which is 200 euros, do you really not trust the SX8200? By reviews online the SX8200 was giving better results and people on YT recommended it over 970, why I ended up buying it for myself already, tho I'm not 100% it's working correctly with my board, I think it's underpeforming and sometimes I feel like stuff aren't opening as fast as I want to, but maybe I'm paranoid. Sometimes I get like full white or full black screen on windows, like Steam chats or web browser when i tab around, that's one of the odd stuff i noticed after i formated my PC moving from windows 7 to 10 for the first time due to getting a m.2 disk. I'm keeping SX8200 for myself however I'm wondering now what to buy for my sibling, SX8200 is way cheaper and was supposed to be better by what people said and feeling like mine will sort out once i get a new board, IF it even IS something wrong with it.

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Also I'm reviewing cases a bit, I like the one you posted, it's also reated as best case of 2019, but I'm also more of a person that likes cases to look amazing as well, other than a regular box, Cooler Master impresses me always so I wonder of your opinion on this two:

Like I watched a review and their tests showed this one as top case for airflow:
My very first good build back in years was also HAF, bit older than this but i loved it, we still have that PC home for other family use.

But yet they said they don't recommned it as it's so damn old already, even tho it was still best at cooling.

So I found a newer model I also liked:
https://www.alternate.de/html/search.html?query=Cooler+Master+MasterCase+H500P

But by their results it gave 10C higher heat compared to HAF X, unless you remove front panel then it gave same or better ones, odd.

That's for now about cases, I'll get back to you on that later just wanted to show you what kind of cases I want since you crushed my dream for Cooler Master Trooper SE, I have to look for new :D. Top fans, front fans, cool epic looks, and amazing airflow, that's my wishes basically.
 

Darkbreeze

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Tomahawk is not better than Pro Carbon. Tomahawk is good, probably 90% AS good as the Pro carbon, and is cheaper, but is not "better".

Both boards are pretty good. The Pro carbon is the better board though.

If you have the SX8200 already then there is no need to change it. Lack of performance is likely due to driver issues or something other than the drive itself. It beats the 970 EVO in a few tests but also loses large in a fair number of them. It's good enough though. It's faster than any SATA SSD and those are fast enough for practically any normal usage.

The Haf X is a ten year old case. For some reason, the majority of cases you seem to want to look at are very old designs, and that's fine, but most of them will lack some features found on newer cases such as tool free designs, removeable drive brackets, bays and caddies, intake filters, good cable management features and tempered glass, which is always a much better choice than real glass or acrylic since real glass is not safe and acrylic scratches easily and tends to reflect light with funky swirls and other abnormalities.

Case reviews are worthless for thermals. They ONLY ever test them with whatever fans they come with, and no sane person would ever use any case with only the fans they come with, especially since most of them only come with a single fan.
 

KrEnX47

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Tomahawk is not better than Pro Carbon. Tomahawk is good, probably 90% AS good as the Pro carbon, and is cheaper, but is not "better".

Both boards are pretty good. The Pro carbon is the better board though.

If you have the SX8200 already then there is no need to change it. Lack of performance is likely due to driver issues or something other than the drive itself. It beats the 970 EVO in a few tests but also loses large in a fair number of them. It's good enough though. It's faster than any SATA SSD and those are fast enough for practically any normal usage.

The Haf X is a ten year old case. For some reason, the majority of cases you seem to want to look at are very old designs, and that's fine, but most of them will lack some features found on newer cases such as tool free designs, removeable drive brackets, bays and caddies, intake filters, good cable management features and tempered glass, which is always a much better choice than real glass or acrylic since real glass is not safe and acrylic scratches easily and tends to reflect light with funky swirls and other abnormalities.

Case reviews are worthless for thermals. They ONLY ever test them with whatever fans they come with, and no sane person would ever use any case with only the fans they come with, especially since most of them only come with a single fan.
Ok, then that's decided thank you, I'll go with Pro Carbon as I prefered.

About ssd, here's what I'm getting: https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/22363227
My SX8200 underpefroming all the time. I also set in bios for fastest boot but now I can't seems to get back in to bios, when I restart PC there's no key buttons showing up.

But in-all, you'd say for a new build (for my sibling), for a gaming/editing combo, 970 would be worth the extra cost?

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Back to cases, my current case is this:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00O3JGEBS
I have no isseus with heat at all, using stock fans 2 front 2 top, even with a stock CPU cooler.
Also what's the most accurate program for heat measurements? I usually just use Speed Fan cause it's fast and simple.

But yah, you're right I do like old designs the most, they look epic and not just a box-with-glass as all modern cases nowdays. In my books, blocked front or even a glass on side is a block for air to keep case cooler. I dont like that. But I'd not mind the side-glass for awesome looks inside if the front and top has amazing fans to keep stuff cool.

Are there any modern new designs there to get me what I'm looking for? I'm looking around and it's either they're super expensive or just not what I want. And if there's an amazing cool old case with great airflow that will do just fine I'd probably still go for it.
 

Darkbreeze

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Your storage devices show performance levels of 288%, which is exceptionally outstanding, and 130% for the Samsung drive, which is damn good. I don't see where the problem is. If it's boot times you're concerned about, I wouldn't be. Big deal. I mean, what's an extra five to ten seconds out of the rest of your life so long as the drive performs well once you're actually IN Windows.

If there is something else the drive is doing or not doing that it should/should not be, IDK what that is because obviously I can't see what it's doing but according to what I see on your userbenchmark scores, it's working well.

Let me look at the case situation some more. Unfortunately, old cases simply can't compare and most people have gotten tired of the spaceship, alien, transformer, over the top style case designs so there really aren't many if ANY modern cases that have those aesthetics with modern features. Really, that's where case mods come into play these days. But I'll see what I can find.
 

KrEnX47

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Your storage devices show performance levels of 288%, which is exceptionally outstanding, and 130% for the Samsung drive, which is damn good. I don't see where the problem is. If it's boot times you're concerned about, I wouldn't be. Big deal. I mean, what's an extra five to ten seconds out of the rest of your life so long as the drive performs well once you're actually IN Windows.

If there is something else the drive is doing or not doing that it should/should not be, IDK what that is because obviously I can't see what it's doing but according to what I see on your userbenchmark scores, it's working well.

Let me look at the case situation some more. Unfortunately, old cases simply can't compare and most people have gotten tired of the spaceship, alien, transformer, over the top style case designs so there really aren't many if ANY modern cases that have those aesthetics with modern features. Really, that's where case mods come into play these days. But I'll see what I can find.
No, boot times are fine, super fast. It's the red text saying "Performing below expectations (31st percentile) " that's worrying me... and people can get up to 330-389% bench for it normally, so that's a big difference.
And I do notice random glitches that weren't there before, like my shadowplay icons flashing randomly, steam message boxes being fully black, or my whole web being white untill I tab out and get in again. It's usually when tabing to things i have to re-tab for it to be fine, stuff like that, and I do feel sometimes some things opens slower than I expected. So yah... makes me wonder if that's the case, as bench says it's performing below expecations, but dont know how to truely test it.

Also how the hell can I get back to BIOS now tho? As I mentioned I doesn't show up any buttons anymore on a restart, and pressing any also does nothing, it started happening after I set for the fastest boot.

But in-all, you'd say for a new build (for my sibling), for a gaming/editing combo, 970 would be worth the extra cost?
I'd still like to know that :p.

Also what's the most accurate program for heat measurements? I usually just use Speed Fan cause it's fast and simple.
And that (dont hate me) I know I ask alot. I greatly appretiate any time and information.
But I wanna see the real heat of my m.2 drives to see if it's cooled properly.

And alright, I'll await if you find anything good from cases let me know, I'll most likely order stuff at monday. I'll also keep looking if I find something worthy I'll link it here.
 

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