Help upgrading my CPU/Video

[Diamond-HP]

Hi guy's new here, was looking to benefit from those in the know here.

Basically I have a HP Pavilion p6 2002uk which I bought back around 2 years ago while I was relatively ignorant about what makes a good PC and what doesn't although at the time it fitted my budget and has served me well so I can't complain.
However .... now I'm thinking of selling my Xbox 360 and just boosting my PC to play games on, I want to know how far I can take this PC without buying a new one considering I've already put down £360 on it I'd rather just buy the upgradable parts.

I know the typical answer to upgrading an OEC is "bury it in a deep ditch" but as long as it's not going to overly screw me I can live with it.

So .......

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=120&prodSeriesId=5151865&prodTypeId=12454&objectID=c03154071

Motherboard: AAHD2-HY (Holly)
Manufacturer: Pegatron
Form factor: uATX: 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) x 24.38 cm (9.6 inches)
Chipset: AMD Hudson-D2 FCH
Memory sockets: 2 x DDR3
Front side bus speeds: 100 MHz UMI (Unified Media Interface)
Processor socket: FM1
Expansion Slots:
PCI-Express Generation 2 speed
1 PCI Express x16
3 PCI Express x1
1 PCI Express Mini Card x1

CPU: AMD E2 3200 - HD 637OD (Graphics integrated)

TDP: 65W
Operating speed: Up to 2.4 GHz
Number of cores: 2
Socket: FM1
Bus speed: 4.0 GT/s HT3

My questions are how far can I go graphics card wise with that motherboard, I'm aware that if I use a discreet GPU over what my APU offers I'll be looking at purchasing a new PSU as my existing one is only 300w.

I've already decided to max out on a new CPU with the A8-3850 2.9Ghz quad core, is there a way I could go even higher in this series? the spec recommend from HP say's that's the highest but is it possible to go up if I keep it in the AMD tree even to the A10's or A8-3870?

Any help will be extremely appreciated.

 

[clutchc]

You can use any APU that fits the FM1 socket. Just don't mistakenly get an APU designed for the newer FM2 socket. I would upgrade the BIOS before changing to a faster APU just to be safe, tho.

not know the specs on that 300W PSU, I would recommend staying with a gfx card that doesn't require external power; i.e. one that gets all its power from the PCIe X16 slot. The Radeon HD 7750 is about the fastest of the lot: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600286767%20600298541&IsNodeId=1&name=Radeon%20HD%207750 ...and really quite good.
(A few of the lot DO require an external 6 pin PCIe power cable, so stay away from them. But most don't)

 

[Diamond-HP]

That would actually be great if that is the case.

1) How would I upgrade the bios? very green when it comes to bios or overclocking adjustments.

2) "I would recommend staying with a gfx card that doesn't require external power; i.e. one that gets all its power from the PCIe X16 slot" .... How would I identify that?

3) Would APU's higher than the one reccommended by HP not over clock it out of the range my motherboard can handle? same question with the graphics card is the HD7750 about as I high as I can go without putting my system out of balance?

Thanks for the advice so far, if that is the case it's not as bad as I thought, I'm aiming for an APU with +3.0 Ghz performance if possible and the GFX card to follow.

 

[Diamond-HP]

Would I have any trouble with the A8-3870k it's one up from the 3850 but does fit an FM1 socket the ones above take the FM2 as you said.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-A-Series-Quad-Core-Processor-Warranty/dp/B006J420UE

 

[Wisecracker]

Nope.

It's FM1

 

[Diamond-HP]

Brilliant well if anyone can help me with those other points it will be much appreciated now the APU is cleared up.

 

[clutchc]

That would actually be great if that is the case.

1) How would I upgrade the bios? very green when it comes to bios or overclocking adjustments.

2) "I would recommend staying with a gfx card that doesn't require external power; i.e. one that gets all its power from the PCIe X16 slot" .... How would I identify that?

3) Would APU's higher than the one reccommended by HP not over clock it out of the range my motherboard can handle? same question with the graphics card is the HD7750 about as I high as I can go without putting my system out of balance?

Thanks for the advice so far, if that is the case it's not as bad as I thought, I'm aiming for an APU with +3.0 Ghz performance if possible and the GFX card to follow.

First, here is a list of processors the FM1 socket can accept.
http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/Socket%20FM1.html
The A8-3870K is indeed an FM1 socket processor. It is a 100W processor and your board's specs allow for using a 100W processor: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c02966470 But keep in mind that you may need a bit more case cooling if temps begin to get out of hand. All and all, I think you should have at least a 120mm intake fan and a 120mm exhaust to keep air flow thru the case.

1) Since yours is a pre-built HP system, I would contact HP for assistance with the BIOS upgrade if you need one. I'm going to reneg a bit on what I said earlier. If you are inexperienced with BIOS updating, I would suggest you try the new processor first and see if the system recognizes it. If it does, there's no real need to update the BIOS. If it doesn't, you can always put the old processor back in, and we can go from there. But I'm betting the board will recognze the CPU just fine.

2) Any gfx card that requires extra power will have at least one 6-pin connector on the rear of the card.
Example:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
3) Your system can support any CPU that fits the FM1 socket and meets the power (watt) requirement of the board. See above.
A gfx card that gets gets all its power from the PCIe X16 slot itself (no 6-pin connector), will not require more than the 75W the slot's specifications say it must provide.

 

[Diamond-HP]

2) Any gfx card that requires extra power will have at least one 6-pin connector on the rear of the card.

A gfx card that gets gets all its power from the PCIe X16 slot itself (no 6-pin connector), will not require more than the 75W the slot's specifications say it must provide.

That's great Clutch, massive help, just to round off about the Graphics cards you mentioned so I can make my final decision, if I wanted one that didn't get all of it's power from the PCIe X16 slot .... what will that mean? I'd need a better PSU? or is it just too much for my Mobo to handle?

I'd like to know what's the best HD GFX card I could get away with? I'm willing to buy a PSU with better coolant from Corsair or whomever if need be but I don't want to ratchet the system up so much it just can't deliver and waste money.

Lastly your advice on my choice of APU/CPU if I'm going to buy a better GFX card anyway would I be better off with the Athlon CPU rather than the A8 APU as I'll end up side lining it's inferior onboard GFX any way because of the new discreet card?

Once again Clutch thanks a lot, you've def lived up to this forums reputation as having some of the best and most helpful people on the net.

So far I'll be purchasing ....

APU/CPU: A8-3870k or the Athlon II X4 651K

RAM: 8GB (From 4GB)

HD Graphics card: ??

PSU: ?? (If required)

 

[Diamond-HP]

The A8 scores just slightly better on 3DMark but hardly anything in it, here are the vs specs identical really.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/276/AMD_A8-Series_A8-3870K_vs_AMD_Athlon_II_X4_651K.html

I was just thinking an Athlon with a discreet GPU may make a cleaner set up over an APU and a discreet card added?

 

[clutchc]

For all practical purposes, the two processors you mention (APU and Athlon) are almost identical in power:
Athlon: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Athlon%20II%20X4%20651K%20-%20AD651KWNZ43GX%20%28AD651KWNGXBOX%29.html
APU: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-A8-Series%20A8-3870%20AD3870WNZ43GX.html
It's kinda a coin toss. They are the same price here in the States... so you get a 'free' on-die GPU if you go with the APU. But on the other hand, you don't have the added heat generated by an unused idling on-die GPU when using a discrete card if you go with the Athlon. So, I leave that up to you.

If you don't mind replacing the PSU, then you can get any gfx card you like as long as the PSU is adequate. The MB will not care what card you install as long as the PSU can provide adequate power. If you are asking for recommendations for a PSU and bigger gfx card, tell me your budget and I'll try to relate that to dollars here in the states and give some examples. And let me know what resolution your display is. The more pixels and texels the card has to address, the more work it needs to do.

However, you may want to go for the HD 7750 and see if that satisfies you before spending a lot more. You can always sell the HD 7750 later if you decide and recoup some of your expense.

 

[Diamond-HP]

This is what that site say's about the two CPU's from the FM1 socket family.

"A8-Series chips have the best overall CPU and 3D graphics performance."

"Athlon II X4 socket FM1 chips offer very good multi-threading performance, but they don't have integrated graphics unit. CPUs from this family can be recommended only if you already have a video card, or can buy one for cheap."

So a touch confused, but everywhere 3DMark/CPU Benchmark has the A8's as slightly higher, I'm just wondering if I'll get the full utilization of a discreet card whilst having an onboard GFX?

My resolution is 1360 x 768 ... running off my LCD TV.

So there's no GFX card I can buy that my Mobo won't get fried or reject because of lack of wattage or compatibility?

Budget is whatever get's the job done lol prob up to $130 - $150 for a GFX card?

The Athlon is £59 the A8-3870k £75.

 

[clutchc]

Ah good, you converted to US dollars

Armed with that pricing knowledge, I would definitely go with the Llano Athlon. That's a big difference in price over by you. (They are both $90 here at Newegg.)

Your first quote is just manufacturer's sales pitch. They are basically the same CPU. The Athlon just has its GPU disabled. Both processors have the same unlocked multiplier for easy overclocking if you ever decide to venture into that realm. If you plan on a discrete card, there's really no sense in getting the APU. If you don't want to invest in a discrete card, go with the APU.

And, if you are gaming at only 720p, the HD 7750 will be a perfect upgrade. You should be able to play any game out today at max or near max settings at that resolution. And no need to spend any more money. The A8-3870K's 6550D on-die GPU scores 678 on Passmark Video Card Benchmarks, while the HD 7750 scores 1584
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=Radeon+HD+6550D

You'll need to spend at least $60 - $70 for a worthwhile PSU and at least another $100 for the HD 7770 (the next tier up from the HD 7750).

Btw, like I'm trying to tell you, your MB won't know or care which gfx card you put in the slot. It only has to supply the first 75W. No worry about frying the board due to the card you choose. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Diamond-HP]

Thanks Clutch, I was thinking that also about the APU if I'm going to get a discreet, it was really the ever so slightly favourable A8 ratings over the Athlon that were making me think twice.

So really the only thing left is the PSU I can fit and what GFX card I'm going to purchase.

I went a bit OTT and started looking at the likes of a HD 7850 which I can tell from the Furturemark.com game ratings it's way up there, pretty much passes the requirements for every game so I think my final decision on ....

Graphics card:

PSU:

.... to buy is going to come down to what PSU I can scale up to in my tower, can't buy the GPU if I can't cool it right?

Apart from the dimensions of the bay's on my first post HP spec link this is basically my tower and what it has encased ....

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/pcs/1288900/hp-pavilion-p6-2022uk-desktop-pc-bundle

What size PSU can I fit? it looks pretty snug in that diagram? based on that outcome I'll make a decision on my GPU.

 

[clutchc]

Thanks Clutch, I was thinking that also about the APU if I'm going to get a discreet, it was really the ever so slightly favourable A8 ratings over the Athlon that were making me think twice.

So really the only thing left is the PSU I can fit and what GFX card I'm going to purchase.

I went a bit OTT and started looking at the likes of a HD 7850 which I can tell from the Furturemark.com game ratings it's way up there, pretty much passes the requirements for every game so I think my final decision on ....

Graphics card:

PSU:

.... to buy is going to come down to what PSU I can scale up to in my tower, can't buy the GPU if I can't cool it right?

Apart from the dimensions of the bay's on my first post HP spec link this is basically my tower and what it has encased ....

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/pcs/1288900/hp-pavilion-p6-2022uk-desktop-pc-bundle

http://photos.expertreviews.co.uk/i...Expert_Reviews/dir_316/er_photo_158329_52.jpg

What size PSU can I fit? it looks pretty snug in that diagram? based on that outcome I'll make a decision on my GPU.

Where are these ratings that you say put the APU slightly over the Llano Athlon II X4? They are the same CPU...

Anyway, it seems you have decided to go the bigger card plus new PSU route. That may not be a bad idea. You may move up to a higher resolution monitor before you out grow the PC.

Ah yes... a proprietary mini mATX tower case. Always a challenge. The first thing I'd do is measure for the gfx card. Measure from the expansion cover at the back of the case into the case to the first obstruction your new card will come up against. We need to know that first. And remember, you will probably have 1 or 2 6 or 8 pin connectors at the back of the card that the power cable(s) needs access to.

Your case takes a typical ATX power supply. They are all the same size except for length. It looks a bit cramped, so you may not be able to go with a long one. Measure the distance from back of the case to the first obstruction the PSU would run into.

 

[Diamond-HP]

The ratings were my fault it was the right Athlon number but not the K version which is ahead in performance so I'll ignore those.

Where I'm at now is I think I've settled on a HD 7770 paired with an Athlon II X4 651K.

If it causes too much of an issue space/heat wise/cost regarding a PSU then I'll have to settle on the HD7750 unless I just migrate to a new Tower case$$ ...... but for the budget I have ($180 when I sell Xbox 360 plus what I add to it) and looking long term it may do for now but it's the sort of limitation I wanted to avoid initially.

So for the HD 7770 this is what it's asking for ....

http://www.amd.com/UK/PRODUCTS/DESKTOP/GRAPHICS/7000/7770/Pages/radeon-7770.aspx#3

Min 500w PSU although I'd like to scale to a 600w if possible and size permits.

Now we know the final two components I'd like, do I still need to do all those measurements or can we take the original bay spec and judge them from there against the actual hardware I've chosen and their actual size?

Not being lazy just don't have a tool to hand and I know I've taken a lot of your time, more than what most people get so trying to wrap it up, if we really need those accurate measurements I'll get on it otherwise I'd be happy to go with somewhat of a general guess from yourself if it saves time?

PSU is 5.9 x 5.5 x 3.4 inches, I think judging by the pic we've got room horizontally but hardly anything vertically.

Also the Graphics card according to that pic, not sure what it is the CPU is Intel i3.

 

[clutchc]

What "original bay specs" are you talking about? I'd advise taking some measurements when you have time. Unless you just want to take a chance they'll fit...

Getting late here in my part of the world. I'll get back with you and send you a suggestion or two mañana.

 

[Diamond-HP]

Thanks, it's 5:30am where I am and I have to be up at 8am lol.

This is from the HP spec link in my first post and we know how big the PSU is from that I believe, speak to you tomorrow and thanks again.

Mini-tower
Height: 36.8 cm (14.4 inches)
Width: 16.5 cm (6.4 inches)
Depth: 38.9 cm (15.3 inches)
Weight: 8 Kg (17.6 lbs) - without packaging
Bay size Total Bays*
13.33 cm (5.25 inch) ODD 1
8.89 cm (3.5 inch) HDD 1
* Bays may be occupied by existing hardware.

Power Supply
Internal 300W (100V-240V)
Form factor: Internal ATX
Total wattage: 300W
Nominal input voltage range:
100-127V/6A (50-60Hz)
200-240V/3A (50-60Hz)

PSU
Dimensions: 150mm x 140mm x 86mm (5.9 x 5.5 x 3.4 inches)
This power supply has an LED to indicate a possible failure condition when LED is off and power is connected

 

[Diamond-HP]

I've cheated a little I found a PSU from an older thread and there is good news.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/324845-10-600w-power-supply-size

ThermalTake TR2 600W with the following:

Dimensions (LxWxH) 140 x 150 x 86 mm
5.5 x 59 x 3.4 inch

Now obviously I'd like to go with a reliable Corsair etc but at least I know they do 600w in those dimensions.

Also as we have the size of the MB Mother board 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) x 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) we have a rough idea via the picture if a HD 7770 will fit hopefully?


** EDIT: Looks like I've found a contender***

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMPSU-600CXV2UK-Builder-Series-Supply/dp/B0050AFU46/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360149678&sr=8-1


Size is exact same so no worrying there and it's ATX the only issue may be the cable length but other than that seems to tick the boxes, does this version have the 6 pin connection? I think there is a newer Bronze version which def has?

 

[Diamond-HP]

On the HD 7770 size I found this ....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5558/amd-radeon-7770-launch-recap

It has all the different case sizes from Asus, Sapphire etc

So if that fits a Mother board 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) x 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) then we could have a wrap on both PSU and GPU?

 

[clutchc]

Thanks, it's 5:30am where I am and I have to be up at 8am lol.

This is from the HP spec link in my first post and we know how big the PSU is from that I believe, speak to you tomorrow and thanks again.

Mini-tower
Height: 36.8 cm (14.4 inches)
Width: 16.5 cm (6.4 inches)
Depth: 38.9 cm (15.3 inches)
Weight: 8 Kg (17.6 lbs) - without packaging
Bay size Total Bays*
13.33 cm (5.25 inch) ODD 1
8.89 cm (3.5 inch) HDD 1
* Bays may be occupied by existing hardware.

Power Supply
Internal 300W (100V-240V)
Form factor: Internal ATX
Total wattage: 300W
Nominal input voltage range:
100-127V/6A (50-60Hz)
200-240V/3A (50-60Hz)

PSU
Dimensions: 150mm x 140mm x 86mm (5.9 x 5.5 x 3.4 inches)
This power supply has an LED to indicate a possible failure condition when LED is off and power is connected

If those PSU dimensions are your existing unit, it is indeed a std size PSU.

The 'bay measurements' are no doubt the drive bays. Not really relevant for our discussion. The case size is typical for a mini tower case.

 

[clutchc]

I've cheated a little I found a PSU from an older thread and there is good news.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/324845-10-600w-power-supply-size

ThermalTake TR2 600W with the following:

Dimensions (LxWxH) 140 x 150 x 86 mm
5.5 x 59 x 3.4 inch

Now obviously I'd like to go with a reliable Corsair etc but at least I know they do 600w in those dimensions.

Also as we have the size of the MB Mother board 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) x 24.38 cm (9.6 inches) we have a rough idea via the picture if a HD 7770 will fit hopefully?


** EDIT: Looks like I've found a contender***

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMPSU-600CXV2UK-Builder-Series-Supply/dp/B0050AFU46/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360149678&sr=8-1


Size is exact same so no worrying there and it's ATX the only issue may be the cable length but other than that seems to tick the boxes, does this version have the 6 pin connection? I think there is a newer Bronze version which def has?

The Corsair in your link above would be a nice choice. It has 2 6-pin PCIe power cables, yes. I'm going to assume for now, that it is the same unit sold here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139019
The "V2UK" tacked onto the end of the model number no doubt is code for: 240 volt, United Kingdom. As you know, our residential electrical receptacle voltage here in the US is 120V. That PSU will fit fine. The only issue you will have is what to do with all the extra length the cables have (bottom mount PSUs have longer cables that top mount PSUs) , and what to do with all the cables you don't use. Tuck them away as best you can and keep them out of the way of air flow theu the case.

 

[Diamond-HP]

Thank you, well this is it then just the question of the HD 7770 will they fit?

The Mobo is coming up on the specs as 9.6ish inches, the GPU is various dependant on make but most come in at 8.2 inches long or there abouts so do you think that will fit in the tower?

Will every version of that particlular Corsair PSU have the 6 pin cables right, some versions seem slightly different?

 

[clutchc]

Thank you, well this is it then just the question of the HD 7770 will they fit?

The Mobo is coming up on the specs as 9.6ish inches, the GPU is various dependant on make but most come in at 8.2 inches long or there abouts so do you think that will fit in the tower?

Will every version of that particlular Corsair PSU have the 6 pin cables right, some versions seem slightly different?

The MB is a std mATX. They all are about the same size.

Depending on which card you choose, it appears (in the stock photo you linked me to) that your HDD is mounted vertically right in the path of the card if it were long-ish. Normally, a card as short as 8.2 inches is no problem. But if it were my system, I would measure.

A 600W PSU almost always has a pair of 6-pin connectors for gfx cards. You'll be fine. One of the reviews for that PSU states he is running an HD 6870; a much more powerful card the requires 2 connectors. If you go with the HD 7770, you only need one, anyway.

 

[Diamond-HP]

Ok well to sum up although there has been a slight change, I'm going to go for the HD 7850 if I can find one at a comparable price because it is a much better GPU than the 7770 but has the same size and system requirements PSU /slot wise etc, if the difference is only £20 then I may as well go for it as it'll last longer regarding future game requirements.

CPU: Athlon II X4 651K

RAM: 8GB (From 4GB)

Graphics card: HD Radeon 7850 (or 7770)

PSU: Corsair CMPSU-600CXV2UK 600w

That's a big step up from where I am currently and better than I thought I could reach and all of that is sized checked/power checked etc (fingers crossed).

Well I have to say a MASSIVE thank you to Clutchc for taking the time to help me out with this I'm a pretty inquisitive type of guy and want to know everything so thanks for being patient ..... I've learned a lot!, it's posters like yourself who boosts this sites reputation.

If you have any last bits of advice on my choices that's great otherwise I'll pop in when it's all installed and let you know how it's turned out, should be done I'd say in around 3-4 weeks poss less.

Once again thanks.

 

[clutchc]

You're quite welcome. Most of us here are ardent PC lovers and enjoy discussions and helping out.

The HD 7850 is a bit more card than you'll make use of with a 720p display. In fact, the HD 7770 would be more than enough to play most games at max settings. But going with the 7850 will allow you to upgrade to a higher rez display in the future and still get great frame rates at high settings. Next though, you'll be having to decide between a 1GB card or a 2GB. The extra GB of memory is only needed for higher resolutions than 1920x1080. Although, there are a couple games out that are VRAM hogs and like the extra memory even at 1920x1080.

I'm betting by the time you finish this upgrade, you'll be wishing for a bigger case, though.
Feel free to come back if you have more questions...