Hello all, I'm attempting my first case mod. And want some opinions with a little problem I've got going. FIRST: If i mount a 120x120x12mm fan behind the mobo mounting plate, should the fan be set to exhaust hot air from mobo to the outside or would it be best by bringing cooler air in to blow on mobo? SECONDLY: I've got two 120's bringing cooler air in from front and this case has two 80mm in back of case for exhaust. There is no room to add a 120mm so i'm kinda stuck with the 80's. Will That be enough to get the air out of the case or create a stagnant air pressure kind of thing. I'm kind of thinking I'm gonna have to run the 80's a little harder to keep up with the 120's. I can add 2-3 80's or 120's at top of case {PSU mounts up top btw} if i need too. Also im not using the area behind the 5.25 bays so i could technically place a 120 there. Just trying to keep the air flowing nice and smooth without placing a ton of fans. I haven't decided if i'm going to make this case my main. Already have that. But proc will be either AM4 or possibly AM5. Just not sure what kinda heat i'm gonna be dealing with. Proc will be air cooled unless i decide i want water. GPU will be a 3060 im thinking. So let me know what you think people. Thanks all!
Question Help with a unique case fan issue please.
- Thread starter RT2022
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- Nov 19, 2010
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Hard to say without something more concrete on the case design. Without knowing how the case is actually laid out, it's next to impossible to suggest a good fan solution. And I completely fail to see what a fan behind the motherboard would accomplish.
Yeah, told you it was a unique question. air or water cooled, we all can cover the heat issues pretty much on the cpu side of the board. But ive always wondered about the heat that the actual board gives off. It occured to me that i might be able to lower the cpu temp by drawing some of that heat. Never really thought about that til lately. If it could bring down the cpu temp by only a few degrees, would it be worth the mod to do it? Dunno. 12mm fan only costs $12. Thought maybe someone had done some heat tests on it to see.
Case is an old 2004 Antec 1000 tower case. PSU located up top. Had 2-80mm in front of case, has 2-80mm in rear of case stock. I'm removing the 2 front 80's and replacing with 120's. Rear 80's have to stay though. No room to place a 120 there. I have the option of cutting top to add 120's or 140's. Also have option to place a 120/140mm in upper front where 5.25 bays are. Thats the case in a nutshell bro.
- Nov 19, 2010
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The problem isn't that the case is unique, it's that it's unique and we don't know anything about it.
In any case, I still don't see what you're accomplishing by having a fan behind the motherboard. There's a reason that areas behind motherboards don't have fan mounts, are designed to have lots of things behind it, are not always even completely open cutouts; it doesn't do anything. It's like pointing a desk fan at your car's dashboard from the passenger seat to cool the engine.
In any case, I still don't see what you're accomplishing by having a fan behind the motherboard. There's a reason that areas behind motherboards don't have fan mounts, are designed to have lots of things behind it, are not always even completely open cutouts; it doesn't do anything. It's like pointing a desk fan at your car's dashboard from the passenger seat to cool the engine.
As a general "rule of thumb", place intakes at front, exhausts at rear and top. So far you have 2 x 120 at front and 2 x 80 at rear. That's good but short of exhaust capacity. No matter how much faster you run the 80 mm fans, they will not match the intake capacity of the 120's.
Another factor: balance of flow capacities. Many (including me) prefer to have slightly higher intake capacity than exhaust so that the net balance most of the time is that ther air pressure inside the case is SLIGHTLY higher than outside. This means that any LEAKS of air at cracks will flow from inside to out, and prevent intake of dusty room air. Of course, that only works if you DO have dust filters on all your intake fans. To accomplish this in your case, you need more exhaust capacity which will increase total air flow a bit. For that, I suggest you cut a top hole as you suggest but for ONE 120mm fan only. That plus the existing 2 x 80 mm at rear should come close to matching the intake capacity of the pair of front fans.
As you describe this case, I gather you can NOT cut an exhaust fan hole in the top right at the rear - there is a PSU there. So to put a second exhaust fan at top it would have to be near the front. In a case with no other components at top FRONT you might mount an intake fan there. BUT when you do those two fan additions, what happens is that the air brought in by the front top is "short-circuited" right out of the top fan mounted almost right above it, so it is of little benefit. In your case, you do have 5¼" bays at top front you are considering converting to an intake fan location. If you do that WITH a second top front exhaust, you create this problem. If you do the front intake with only a single top fan further back, you do not get a good balance of intake and exhaust capacities. In my view, your better option is the single top exhaust added but not a front top in the 5¼" bay area.
Another factor: balance of flow capacities. Many (including me) prefer to have slightly higher intake capacity than exhaust so that the net balance most of the time is that ther air pressure inside the case is SLIGHTLY higher than outside. This means that any LEAKS of air at cracks will flow from inside to out, and prevent intake of dusty room air. Of course, that only works if you DO have dust filters on all your intake fans. To accomplish this in your case, you need more exhaust capacity which will increase total air flow a bit. For that, I suggest you cut a top hole as you suggest but for ONE 120mm fan only. That plus the existing 2 x 80 mm at rear should come close to matching the intake capacity of the pair of front fans.
As you describe this case, I gather you can NOT cut an exhaust fan hole in the top right at the rear - there is a PSU there. So to put a second exhaust fan at top it would have to be near the front. In a case with no other components at top FRONT you might mount an intake fan there. BUT when you do those two fan additions, what happens is that the air brought in by the front top is "short-circuited" right out of the top fan mounted almost right above it, so it is of little benefit. In your case, you do have 5¼" bays at top front you are considering converting to an intake fan location. If you do that WITH a second top front exhaust, you create this problem. If you do the front intake with only a single top fan further back, you do not get a good balance of intake and exhaust capacities. In my view, your better option is the single top exhaust added but not a front top in the 5¼" bay area.
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THANK you for the input!
Yeah i got you on the intake at front and exhaust at rear. Case came stock with all 80mm fans {4 total). 2004 thing. I knew id have to go to a bigger fan{s} or else those 80's would be kinda loud. That's whyI'm cutting the front of the case to be able to add the 120's. The exhaust capacity is what i was worried about somewhat. I too didn't think the 2x80's would be enough to exhaust the amount of air the 120's were pumping in. But no room in the rear of the case to take out the 80's and install a 120mm. So yeah, i knew id have to cut top of case for more exhaust.
And yes, all fans get dust covers...lol. I agree with your assertion that it'll take just one 120 up top. I obviously will have to get my exhaust capacity up some and that sounds right. I had thought to use 2 80mm's up top but I'm thinking it would be a little louder than the 120.
And yes i understand what you're saying about the drive cage area and not placing one in there. I agree. And yes the PSU which is mounted up top, will have it's fan facing up to vent. The decision i had to make was, Do i cut the top and position a 120 fan directly above the PSU's exhaust fan? Which would have that fan located farther back on the top....Or I could put a 120 in the middle on top of case?
But a question if you don't mind. If i were to place a 120x12mm fan behind the motherboard, either bringing cool air in to help cool the area under the CPU OR exhaust air out drawing some of the heat out from back of motherboard? MY THOUGHTS. Since the CPU and vrm's still creates heat and I'm sure warms up the board itself, how much i don't know. But if placing a fan in back.....would it help one way or another? Doesn't cost much to do it and is different idea all around. Maybe get a few degrees out of it? Worth it, not worth it....
SkyNetRising
Titan
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Can you show a photo of your pc case with side panel removed?
(upload to imgur.com and post link)
Does it have closed or mesh front?
- Nov 19, 2010
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What exactly are you planning to do the case? Unless there's a very specific theme and extensive mods, I can't see this case as having good enough "bones" to be a good foundation for any current system.
The intent of that case's original design was that the PSU would have its air INtake at the bottom or front, and discharge out of the BACK of the case. Thus in part it became a small exhaust fan system. You speak of having your PSU exhaust out of the TOP, and thus require a hole top be cut there. Is that correct - a newer style PSU with that air flow pattern? Does that PSU take air IN through its BACK panel? Or is it the other way around? Or is PSU intake from INside the case?
The PSU will be very close to the top. If it has either intake or exhaust at its top, there is no need for you to add a fan right in front of that through a new hole. OR, if the PSU has NO air venting through its top, placing a fan there may not work well because the air flow path from case interior to the fan's intake would be rather restricted. Your better choice would be an exhaust fan hole in the MIDDLE of the top panel.
I doubt there is any real advantage to placing a fan in the case's right side behind the case's metal mobo mounting panel. Any heat you could remove by air flow from there would first have to move THROUGH the mobo and THROUGH the mounting panel (there's a stationary air gap of ¼" between those established by the stand-offs). Plus, where does that air come from - what goes out must come in? I see no good air supply to that area. Mobos are designed to have heat removed by air flow over their top side, and that's where all the heat-generating components are.
IF you're really trying to maximize cooling by air flow, you MIGHT consider replacing the old 80 mm rear exhaust fans with other models. FIRST you'd need to find the specs of the old fans to see what their max air flow rating is. Then you could look for new ones with significantly higher air flow max. By "significantly", I mean at least 25% higher.
The PSU will be very close to the top. If it has either intake or exhaust at its top, there is no need for you to add a fan right in front of that through a new hole. OR, if the PSU has NO air venting through its top, placing a fan there may not work well because the air flow path from case interior to the fan's intake would be rather restricted. Your better choice would be an exhaust fan hole in the MIDDLE of the top panel.
I doubt there is any real advantage to placing a fan in the case's right side behind the case's metal mobo mounting panel. Any heat you could remove by air flow from there would first have to move THROUGH the mobo and THROUGH the mounting panel (there's a stationary air gap of ¼" between those established by the stand-offs). Plus, where does that air come from - what goes out must come in? I see no good air supply to that area. Mobos are designed to have heat removed by air flow over their top side, and that's where all the heat-generating components are.
IF you're really trying to maximize cooling by air flow, you MIGHT consider replacing the old 80 mm rear exhaust fans with other models. FIRST you'd need to find the specs of the old fans to see what their max air flow rating is. Then you could look for new ones with significantly higher air flow max. By "significantly", I mean at least 25% higher.
- Nov 19, 2010
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The fan on a PSU is almost always the intake, so keep that in mind with any planning.
Since we don't have a direct shot of the back, is there enough room to mount a 120 fan if you do some metal cutting?
Going with such a poor airflow case by 2022 standards, I might go a little weird with it if I were modding. Get or make higher feet for the case so that there's clearance, make three cutouts at the bottom of the case and mount three 120 or 140mm fans to them as your primary intake. Then have a 120mm exhaust in the back (if you can fit it) and, after cutting out the front panel, a 240mm radiator exhaust in the front. So the GPU's hot air gets removed from the back, the CPU's from the front, the PSU's from the top.
If you're going to mod it, at least mod it with the goal of making it good. Otherwise, there's no real benefit from using a 20-year-old case that's going to be a worse performer than the cheapest $25 cases hanging around.
Thank you for the reply and input! First if i misstated PSU position, forgive. It pulls from top and exhausts thru back. it will have appox 2inches of clearance from top of PSU to the top of case. The 120 exhaust hole cut in middle of top of case sounds right. I can replace the 80mm's that are exhausting in the back and replace them with 92mm's. Not enough room to get 120's in there even if i cut metal out. Sucks really. So the 2 80's will have to stay there and thats really what prompted my questions about airflow. I was just unsure of size and positions for fans to be added. Old saying, better to ask twice....cut once! lol. I wouldn't say I'm trying to maximize the airflow as much as i was wanting to achieve a smooth airflow. In this particular case it seemed kinda up for grabs on smooth airflow. So thats why i asked.
And ok, no fan behind mobo. Although i did some better searching and found a guy who did so and recorded temp changes. Kinda mild results but they were positive. But I like your thinking about it so i'll concur.
The actual PSU had a fan on the front sucking case air and exhausting it straight back thru PSU to exhaust. New PSU would be sucking air from the case having that 2" gap.
Guys i know this case is so old and odd......but i have 6 mid cases to play with and then i came across this old thing from way back {Abit mobo's and AMD Athlon 64's & Phenom's, sound blaster sound cards and 56k modem's.} lol.
It was NOT my intention to mod this case! I just wanted to play with something different. I'm 60 years old and memory is fading faster than i like, lol. I'm having to relearn so much it makes me feel like I'm already put out to pasture! But i like a challenge too! It's keeps my mind going. Thank you so much for your time with my questions!! First class
The fan on a PSU is almost always the intake, so keep that in mind with any planning.
Since we don't have a direct shot of the back, is there enough room to mount a 120 fan if you do some metal cutting?
Going with such a poor airflow case by 2022 standards, I might go a little weird with it if I were modding. Get or make higher feet for the case so that there's clearance, make three cutouts at the bottom of the case and mount three 120 or 140mm fans to them as your primary intake. Then have a 120mm exhaust in the back (if you can fit it) and, after cutting out the front panel, a 240mm radiator exhaust in the front. So the GPU's hot air gets removed from the back, the CPU's from the front, the PSU's from the top.
If you're going to mod it, at least mod it with the goal of making it good. Otherwise, there's no real benefit from using a 20-year-old case that's going to be a worse performer than the cheapest $25 cases hanging around.
Sadly there is no room to cut the case and add a 120 for exhaust. I'd have to redesign the whole back of case for that. Kinda not wanting to go there if i can help it. ALSO, lol, I never intended to mod this case. among 5-6 mid cases i have, this is the only old case i had in my storage. I just figured, hey what the heck, see what i can do with it. But the airflow and fan placement issues kinda made me wanting to get opinions from you guys before i started cutting it up. So there we are.
I like your ideas on cutting the bottom of case to put 120's in. That may be what i end up doing. Would solve a lot of problems for sure. Oh yeah, no fan behind mobo. Rule that out.
If i continue to mod this case....i just hope it ends up being good enough for you bro! lol. And I'm thinking that it isn't so much how old the case is, its more imagination than anything.
Thanks for your ideas and input on my case issues brother, appreciate it!
- Nov 19, 2010
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I assumed you were modding the case because you said you were in the very first sentence of your post.
OK, so a further thought regarding the PSU. Its design intended that the intake side of it would be facing a hole in the case for air entrance. Often this new design is placed at the BOTTOM of a new case, with the fan intake facing down. For your situation, having that facing a solid top with 2" clearance for air flow to it might reduce cooling of the PSU but would be a slight increase in total air flow exhaust capacity. Alternatively, cut a hole in the top rear to match up with the PSU intake, and mount a dust filter there. Let the PSU have free access to outside air. Then go ahead with the middle of the top for mounting a case 120 mm exhaust fan. IF you are so inclined, mount a small baffle inside the top about 2" deep between the PSU intake area and the top exhaust fan area to avoid any misdirected air flow there.
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