[SOLVED] Help with deciding components

May 18, 2019
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Hi

I'm trying to decide which mobo and processor to get, Which of the below combos is better to reach fully stable 5GHz with no pushing hardware to it's limits, shorten it's life or have thermal or any other issues, trying to fit things into my budget

Gigabyte Aorus z390 Pro wifi + i9-9900k

OR

Gigabyte Aorus z390 Ultra + i7-9700k

OR

My original plan (and budget) get Aorus Pro or Elite + 9700k (even if I won't achieve the above regarding stable 5GHz)

Rest of the build for deeper insight and recommendations if needed

  • Cooling is Cryorig H5 Ultimate is it good for 5GHz over-clocking or not?
  • PSU Couger 750 Watts and it's 7 years old
  • HyperX Predator DDR4 RGB 16GB kit 3200MHz CL16
  • Zotac RTX 2080 (non-TI)
  • Coolermaster MasterCase Pro 5 3x 140mm fans installed
Any professional recommendations would be appreciated
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
No, the H5 is really not suitable for a full time 5Ghz overclock with either of those CPUs. Possibly for an i5, but even then the H5 is more of a 4.6-4.7-ish heatsink unless you want it running full bore anytime there is a moderate load.

Get a new PSU before you do anything else. That PSU wasn't terrific when it was new, and at 7 years old, is getting very long in the tooth and is likely an unnecessary risk to the rest of your hardware. If that means going with the 9700k, or even an 8700k, in order to budget for a good power supply, then it would be recommendable for you to do that.

Here are my recommendations for PSU models. Click the spoiler for those.

Let's start with the biggest misconception out there, which is that if a unit has high watts it will be ok or is good. Well, that couldn't be further from the truth.

There are plenty of 750-1000w units out there that I wouldn't trust to power a light bulb and might in fact be more dangerous due to their supposedly high capacity due to poor or non-existent protections inside the unit.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, how many watts or amps it says it can support is irrelevant.

Higher 80plus certification doesn't mean anything, UNLESS it's on an already known to be high quality PSU platform. For example, a Seasonic Prime platinum unit is going to be a better product than a Seasonic Prime Gold unit, because we already know the Prime platform is very good, and platinum efficiency along with it shows there are some improvements internally to account for the higher efficiency.

In a case like that, it might be worth it. It's likely the unit will create less heat, it will probably have better performance in regard to ripple, noise and voltage regulation. It might shave a few pennies, or dollars, off the electric bill over the course of a year.

Other than that, it is not going to perform any better than the same platform with Gold efficiency. On the other hand, just because a unit has Titanium 80plus ratings doesn't mean the unit is any good at all. For example, there are Raidmax units with Titanium efficiency and I wouldn't trust one of those to power a light bulb. There are a lot of units like this out there.

If the platform isn't good to begin with, whether or not it has an 80plus certification or not is irrelevant.

Whatever you do, don't EVER buy a power supply based on whether it has RGB or lighting, or looks like it might be a quality unit. Some of the biggest hunks of junk out there look just as good as a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but I assure you, they are not. So far as I've seen there are really no excellent units out there that have RGB built in. Maybe one or two models, but rest assured you'll be be paying for the lighting, not for the quality of the power supply.

I don't know what country you reside in, and I know that sometimes it's hard to come by good units in some regions, but when possible, when it comes time to get that PSU, I'd stick to the following if you can.

Seasonic. Seasonic isn't just a brand, they are a PSU manufacturer, unlike many of the PSU brands you see they make their own power supply platforms AND a great many of the very good PSU models out there from other brands like Antec, Corsair and older XFX are made by Seasonic.

Just about anything made by Seasonic is good quality for the most part. There are really no bad Seasonic units and only a very few that are even somewhat mediocre. They do make a few less-good quality OEM style units, but mostly those are not going to be units you come across at most vendors, and they are still not bad. Also, the S12II and M12II 520 and 620w units are older, group regulated models. At one time they were among the best units you could buy. Now, they are outdated and not as good as almost any other Seasonic models. They are however still better than a LOT of newer designs by other manufacturers.

The Seasonic 520w and 620w S12II/M12II units CAN be used on newer Intel platforms, if you turn off C6/C7 in the bios, but I'd really recommend a newer platform whenever possible. Prices are usually pretty good on those though, so sometimes it's worth accepting the lack of DC-DC on the internal platform. Higher capacity versions of the High current gamer are not based on that platform, so they are fine. Those being the 750w and higher versions.

Most common currently, in order of preference, would be the Seasonic Focus series, then Focus plus, then Prime, then Prime ultra. It's worth mentioning that there are generally Gold, Platinum and Titanium versions within each, or most, of those series, but that does not necessarily mean that a Focus plus Platinum is necessarily better than a Prime Gold. It only means that it scored better in the 80plus efficiency testing, not that the platform is better.

Again, don't let yourself get tangled up in the idea that a higher 80plus rating specifically means that it is a better unit than another one with a lower rating, unless you know that it is a good platform from the start. All these Focus and Prime units are pretty good so you can somewhat focus on the 80plus rating when deciding which of them to choose.

Super Flower. Super Flower is another PSU manufacturer. They are like Seasonic and they make power supplies for a variety of other companies, like EVGA. Super Flower units are usually pretty good. I'd stick to the Leadex, Leadex II and Golden Green models.They also make most of the good units sold by EVGA like the G2, G3, P2 and T2 models.

Super Flower doesn't have a very broad availability for the units with their own brand name on them, and are not available in a lot of countries but for those where there is availability you want to look at the Leadex and Leadex II models. The Golden green platform is fairly decent too but is getting rather long in the tooth as a platform AND I've seen some reviews indicating a few shortcomings on units based on this platform.

Even so, it's a great deal better than a lot of other platforms out there so you could certainly do worse than a Golden green model. Units based on the Leadex and Leadex II platforms are much better though.

Corsair. The CX and CXm units are ok as a budget option, but I do not recommend pairing them with gaming cards. The newer 2017 models of CX and CXm are better than the older ones, but still not what we'd call terrific, so if it specifically says 2017 model, or it has a capacity other than an even 100, like 550w, 650w, 750w, etc., then it's likely at least better than those older ones. Aside from that, any of the TX, RMx, RMi, HX, HXi, AX or AXi units are good. Those are listed from best to worst, with the best being the AX and AXi units.

Antec. The True power classic units are made by Seasonic, and are very good, but are not modular. The High current gamer 520w and 620w, or any other PSU you see on the market that is 520w or 620w, are also made by Seasonic, based on the S12II and M12II platform for modern versions, and are pretty good units but again they are an older platform that is group regulated so if you go with a Haswell or newer Intel configuration you will want to avoid those because they do not support the C6/C7 Intel low power states.

The Antec High current gamer 750w and 850w units are very good and are not the older design, which came in 520w and 620w capacities and were good for back then but again, are an aging Seasonic platform that is not the best choice most of the time these days. Occasionally, these older units MIGHT be the best unit available and you could do worse than one of them, but a newer DC-DC platform is desirable when possible if it doesn't mean sacrificing quality elsewhere in the platform. There are however older and newer HCG models, so exact model number will likely be a factor if choosing one of these however both the older models and the newer models are good.

Antec Edge units are ok too, but reviews indicate that they have noisy fan profiles. I'd only choose this model if it is on sale or the aesthetics match up with your color scheme or design. Still a good power supply but maybe a little aggressive on the fan profile. This may have been cured on newer Edge models so reading professional tear down reviews is still the best idea.

Antec Earthwatts Gold units are very good also.

BeQuiet. BeQuiet does have a few decent models, BUT, you must be VERY selective about which of their models you put your trust in. From model to model their are huge differences in both quality and performance, even with the same series. If you cannot find a review for a BeQuiet unit on HardOCP, JonnyGuru or Tom's hardware that SPECIFICALLY says it is a very good unit, and does not have any significant issues in the "cons" category, I would avoid it. In fact, I'd probably avoid it anyhow unless there is a very great sale on one that has good reviews, because their units are generally more expensive than MUCH better units from Antec, Seasonic, EVGA and Corsair.

EVGA. They have BOTH good and not very good models.

Not very good are the W1, N1, B1, B3 (All models except the 650w model), BQ, BR, BT and G1 NEX models.

Good models are the B2, B3 650w, G2, G2L, G3, GQ, P2 and T2 models.

FSP. They used to be very mediocre, and are a PSU manufacturer like Seasonic and Super Flower, although not as well trusted based on historical performance. Currently the FSP Hydro G and Hydro X units are pretty good.

I would avoid Thermaltake and Cooler Master.

They do have a few good units, but most of the models they sell are either poor or mediocre, and the ones they have that ARE good are usually way overpriced.

This is just ONE example of why I say that. Very new and modern CM unit. One of the worst scores ever seen on JonnyGuru for a well known brand name product. Doesn't look to be much better than a Raidmax unit. Sad.

Cooler Master Masterwatt Lite 600W review

And most of the models I have linked to the reviews of at the following link are at least good, with most of them being fantastic.

Power supply discussion thread

Certainly there ARE some good units out there that you won't see above among those I've listed, but they are few and far between, much as a hidden nugget of gold you find in a crevice among otherwise ordinary rocks and don't EVER assume a unit is good just because of the brand.

If you cannot find an IN DEPTH, REPUTABLE review on Tom's hardware, JonnyGuru, HardOCP, Hardware secrets (Old reviews by Gabe Torres), Kitguru (Only Aris reviews), TechPowerUP, SilentPC crew or a similar site that does much more than simply a review of the unboxing and basic tests that don't include reliable results for ripple, noise, voltage regulation and a complete teardown of the unit including identification of the internal platform, then the unit is a big fat question mark.

I recommend not trusting such units as companies generally always send out review samples of any unit they feel is going to get a good review, and don't send them out if they know they are going to get hammered by the reviewer. No review usually equals poor quality. Usually.


Other models that should never be trusted OR USED AT ALL, under any circumstances, include

A-Top, AK Power, Alpine, Apevia, Apex (Supercase/Allied), Artic, Ace, Aerocool (There might be one model worth using, but I'd still avoid them.), Aspire (Turbocase), Atadc, Atrix, Broadway com corp, Chieftech, Circle, CIT, Coolmax, Deer, Diablotek, Dynapower, Dynex, Eagletech, Enlight, Eurotech, Evo labs, EZ cool, Feedtek, Foxconn, G7, HEC/Compucase Orion, HEDY, High power, iBall, iStar computer co., Jeantec, JPac, Just PC, Kolink, LC Power, Linkworld electronics, Logisys, Macron, MSI, NmediaPC, Norwood Micro (CompUSA), Okia, Powercool, Powmax, Pulsepower, Q-tec, Raidmax, RaveRocketfish, Segotep, SFC, Sharkoon, Shuttle, Skyhawk, Spire, Startech, Storm, Sumvision, Tesla, Trust, Ultra, Wintech, Winpower, Xilence (Until I see a reputable review of a model showing different), xTreme (Cyberpower), Youngbear and Zebronics.
 
May 18, 2019
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@Darkbreeze thank you so much! that was really helpful

I replaced the old Cougar PSU with a Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750 Watts and got i7-9700k , Aorus Pro board and Aorus 3200MHz CL16 2x8 RAM

Now about the CPU cooling if I'm to replace the H5 can you please suggest best 2 options (not high end because of cost) for water and air cooling, my target is fully stable no issues what so ever 5GHz
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Ok, so, there is no "no issues whatsoever 5Ghz" cooler that is "not high end because of cost". If you want a heatsink or AIO cooler that can handle that kind of thermal load, it HAS to be a high end cooler. If there were budget coolers that could handle 5Ghz overclocking then nobody would even bother to buy a high end cooler. That's the WHOLE point of them being high end is that they CAN handle thermal loads beyond what other coolers can handle. Rarely is a cooler expensive ONLY because of it's aesthetics.

A heatsink or AIO that just looks good, isn't worth much to anybody.

If you already have the H5, my advice would be to simply run that CPU at whatever OC you can manage using that cooler and still keep it stable and keep thermals below 80°C. If that means 4.5Ghz, then run it at that. If it means 4.7Ghz, then do that. The difference between 4.7Ghz and 5Ghz isn't astronomical in terms of performance AND it may be performance that doesn't benefit you that much anyhow unless you are doing 144 or 240hz gaming and need the peak FPS.

What resolution is your monitor? How many monitors do you actually use FOR gaming on? What in game quality settings are you targeting?

If you HAVE to shoot for 5Ghz, and keep in mind there are no guarantees that any specific CPU sample can even ACHIEVE a full time 5GHz overclock, then what is the most you can actually afford to spend on a new cooler AND what country are you in so I can recommend something that will actually be available to you?
 
Reactions: Karadjgne
May 18, 2019
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Thank you, resolution is QHD single monitor 144hz I'm targeting high quality settings and best FPS I can get, you're absolutely right on staying with H5 and getting 4.6 or whatever the H5 will handle nicely, I'm from Egypt and $100 won't get an okay cooler would it
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
In the US, it WOULD. Where you are, probably not.

Here is my list of recommended CPU coolers. Maybe you can look around, see if anything closer to the top than the H5 is available to you for a reasonable price and get back to me. I'd be happy to offer my thoughts on any specific model you might be interested in. Professional reviews are a good thing to look at for any given cooler model too.

Below is my list of preferred CPU AIR coolers, also known as Heatsink fans (HSF).

Do not look here for recommendations on water/liquid cooling solutions. There are none to be found.[/b]

They are basically listed in order of preference, from top to bottom. To some degree that preference is based on known performance on similarly overclocked configurations, but not entirely. There are likely a couple of units that are placed closer to the top not because they offer purely better performance than another cooler which is below it, but potentially due to a variety of reasons.

One model might be placed higher than another with the same or similar performance, but has quieter or higher quality fans. It may have the same performance but a better warranty. Long term quality may be higher. It may be less expensive in some cases. Maybe it performs slightly worse, but has quieter fans and a better "fan pitch". Some fans with equal decibel levels do not "sound" like they are the same as the specific pitch heard from one fan might be less annoying than another.

In any case, these are not "tiered" and are not a 100% be all, end all ranking. They are simply MY preference when looking at coolers for a build or when making recommendations. Often, which HSF gets chosen depends on what is on this list and fits the budget or is priced right at the time due to a sale or rebate. Hopefully it will help you and you can rest assured that every cooler listed here is a model that to some degree or other is generally a quality unit which is a lot more likely to be worth the money spent on it than on many other models out there that might look to be a similarly worthwhile investment.

Certainly there are a great many other very good coolers out there, but these are models which are usually available to most anybody building a system or looking for a cooler, regardless of what part of the world they might live in. As always, professional reviews are usually an absolutely essential part of the process of finding a cooler so if you are looking at a model not listed here, I would highly recommend looking at at least two or three professional reviews first.

If you cannot find two reviews of any given cooler, it is likely either too new to have been reviewed yet or it sucked, and nobody wanted to buy one in order to review it plus the manufacturer refused to send samples out to the sites that perform reviews because they knew it would likely get bad publicity.

IMO, nobody out there is making better fans, overall, than Noctua, followed pretty closely by Thermalright. So if you intend to match case fans to the same brand on your HSF, those are pretty hard to beat. Of course, Corsair has it's Maglev fans, and those are pretty damn good too, but since they don't make CPU air cooling products, only AIO water coolers, they cannot join the party.


Noctua NH-D14 (Replace stock fans with NF-A14 industrialPPC 2000rpm)
Noctua NH-D15/D15 SE-AM4
Noctua NH-D14 (With original fans)
Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme
Phanteks PH-TC14PE (BK,BL, OR or RD)
Cryorig R1 Ultimate or Universal
Thermalright Legrand Macho RT
FSP Windale 6
Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b
Noctua NH-U12A
Noctua NH-U14S
Thermalright Macho rev.B
Thermalright Macho (Direct, 120)
Scythe Mugen max
BeQuiet dark rock pro (3 or 4)
BeQuiet dark rock (3 or 4)
Deepcool Assassin II
Thermalright true spirit 140 (Direct, Power, BW)
Cryorig H5
Noctua NH-U12S



It may not be obvious, but is probably worth mentioning, that not all cooler models will fit all CPU sockets as aftermarket coolers generally require an adapter intended for use with that socket. Some coolers that fit an AMD platform might not fit a later AMD platform, or an Intel platform. Often these coolers come with adapters for multiple types of platforms but be sure to verify that a specific cooler WILL work with your platform before purchasing one and finding out later that it will not.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
For what? Personally I'm not a big fan of a LOT of RGB, on everything, but I do have lighting in my case. I'm running an older pre-RGB craze light system which is the NZXT Hue+ but I am running open source 3rd party software to control the colors as I refuse to use the NZXT CAM software anymore due to their personal information collection policy.

So, are you talking about a case lighting controller, or an RGB fan system, or what exactly?
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Nope. None of the really decent CPU coolers that are out there are RGB. If you wanted, you COULD add an RGB fan but most of those are not particularly good in terms of performance when compared to non-RGB high end fans either. I'd get my RGB elsewhere, not on the CPU cooler.

If you MUST have it, then I'd go with the Thermaltake Riing fans for RGB with decent static pressure, however, there are ZERO fans that are RGB AND have good static pressure characteristics which is important for any fan being used on a heatsink or radiator.

Even within the same brand and model, once they put RGB on them, they start to suck. Take the Corsair ML120/140 Pro fans. Both have very good static pressure, and are maglev magnetic bearing fans, however the ML RGB versions of both fans have about half the static pressure of the non-RGB models.

The Thermaltake Riing fans have the highest static pressure of any RGB fans that I'm aware of although I haven't looked around much lately. For cooling, you are better off to worry about just getting a good cooler or great fans, than to worry about RGB on them. Plenty of other non-critical areas to get your RGB on without affecting the performance of anything.
 

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