Build Advice Help with my (literally) backwards airflow ?

[lewis1190]

Hi there,

I've had an InWin 509 for the last 6 years. There seems to be a ton of places to mount fans on this case, but I've always struggled with getting decent airflow with this case.

My current fan setup looks like what you see in the images here.
That's:

• 3x 120mm fans (Corsair HD120) on the side-front.
• 1x 140mm fan (Corsair AF Series 140) on the back.
• 2 fans on my 280mm h115i elite capellix (the ones that come with it).

Now here's where it gets weird. If you couldn't see already by fan brace positioning, my airflow is reversed. This means:

• My back fan is an intake
• My radiator pushes the radiator air to the front of the case
• Those 3 fans on the front are likely harming my airflow. They're static pressure fans, and my coolant temp dropped by about 3-4°C after capping their rpm at 20%, instead of allowing them to run at their regular curve.

You can view a super-simple 3d model of my current airflow here: https://app.vectary.com/p/1CIREHR4LBV2iBGKaO9Otc
Please keep in mind that there is a hexagon mesh on the opposite side of where my 3 fans are mounted, as you can see in other examples linked below.

Why did I do this? Initially it was all done in the name of aesthetics; it looked nice! However, with my recent purchase of a 3080 (PNY Revel EPIC-X RGB) to replace my 1070 (Palit Gamerock), a lot more heat is being created in my case, and I can't ignore this airflow issue for much longer.

Some quick stats:

• With my 1070, my CPU coolant temp never went over 37°C no matter what I threw at it; with the exception of summer this year, which got it up to 41°C.
• With my 3080, my CPU coolant temp goes up to 40°C with about 30 minutes of Cyberpunk 2077.
• With my tempered glass side panel off, my coolant temp goes to 35°C. This also makes my ram go from 55°C to 45°C, and my GPU from 80°C to 65°C. GPU hotspot and VRAM temps are 10°C hotter, but also fall by 15°C.

The temps from the last point would be ideal (with the side on), but I'm not sure how to do it. I've got a few ideas, but I'm not sure what would be optimal for this case.

Obviously, I'd like aesthetics to be retained where possible, but it looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and stare at a few fan back-braces if I want this case to run cooler.

Here's the OFFICIAL picture of the case airflow, from InWin:
https://www.technologyx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Air-Flow2_clipped_rev_2.png

Fans can also be mounted elsewhere in the case. Here's a few examples:

• https://www.pctechreviews.com.au/wp..._cases_in-win-509_practical_done/50900097.jpg
• https://www.pctechreviews.com.au/wp..._cases_in-win-509_practical_done/50900098.jpg
• https://cdna.pcpartpicker.com/stati...9107.8e35d87755b4b8330c0c68970053bb10.512.jpg
• https://cdna.pcpartpicker.com/stati...5338.dcc6931b5eccef89290c39600105bd27.512.jpg
• https://cdna.pcpartpicker.com/stati...5338.2f1854c04daaeb42b1e277d2c23e9520.512.jpg

Hopefully that's enough to show what can be done with this case. As you can see, some people here intake through the back too, but some others intake through the front as well.

What I'm pretty sure I MUST do, is that I need to:

• Move my Hard Drive cage to the front chamber of the case (as shown in some of the above builds), and put a 140mm fan on the bottom as an additional intake.

As for potential solutions, I was considering:

• Recessing my front 3 fans to the other side of the case, to exhaust through the hexagon mesh mesh in the side panel, which would continue to work the cases airflow in reverse.
• However, I'm not too happy about the idea of heat coming from my GPUs back exhaust, going straight back into the case via my rear intake (which is what I assume is happening right now with my rear-intake setup).

Some advice from you guys would be much appreciated! I'm definitely going to add the extra intake, but everything after that is open to discussion and debate with you guys.

Also, one last thing, are my fans and their "types" okay? Currently, every fan is static pressure except the rear fan. I'm open to more efficient fan suggestions, although it would be ideal to stay in the Corsair side of things, as a majority of my stuff is Corsair and controlled by iCUE (as good / awful as that can be...).

Thanks in advance for any and all help! I apologise for the info-dump, but will happily provide more info if needed.

 

[Aeacus]

Your current issue is these blowing into each other:

• 3x 120mm fans (Corsair HD120) on the side-front.
• 2 fans on my 280mm h115i elite capellix (the ones that come with it).

Now, as you said, there are several options and here, all you need to do, is to install the 2-3x HD120 fans as seen here:

This creates a nice airflow path from the back of the case, through the rad, 90 degree turn and exhausting to the side, while:

• you keep your eyecandy of HD120 fans and
• you'll create extreme negative pressure inside your PC case.

Negative pressure is the best when it comes to cooling. Downside is that it creates vaccuum effect inside your PC and can draw in dust from every small hole your PC case has. But far better cooling performance + nice eyecandy outweighs the every once in a while cleaning PC internals from the dust. Right?

Installing bottom intake fan reduces the negative pressure a bit, but you'd still have negative pressure inside the case. (Not as severe though.) Since you'd have 2x intake fans and 5x exhaust fans.

 

[lewis1190]

Your current issue is these blowing into each other:



Now, as you said, there are several options and here, all you need to do, is to install the 2-3x HD120 fans as seen here:

This creates a nice airflow path from the back of the case, through the rad, 90 degree turn and exhausting to the side, while:

• you keep your eyecandy of HD120 fans and
• you'll create extreme negative pressure inside your PC case.

Negative pressure is the best when it comes to cooling. Downside is that it creates vaccuum effect inside your PC and can draw in dust from every small hole your PC case has. But far better cooling performance + nice eyecandy outweighs the every once in a while cleaning PC internals from the dust. Right?

Installing bottom intake fan reduces the negative pressure a bit, but you'd still have negative pressure inside the case. (Not as severe though.) Since you'd have 2x intake fans and 5x exhaust fans.

Thanks for taking the time to read and advice! Negative airflow sounds good to me tbh; I've got laminate flooring so dust isn't a serious issue, plus I have a 18V makita blower to de-dust my stuff (highly recommend btw!).

I'll probably go for this approach, I'll try and do it this weekend and keep you updated with how I do!

I'll probably get the additional intake fan anyway, although depending on cooling results, I may not mount it and send it back if it's not necessary.

Are there any specific Corsair 140mm fans that you'd recommend for the bottom intake? There's a ton of "static pressure" ones, (SP, LL, ML, etc.) so it'd be great if you had an "ideal" suggestion in mind. No worries if not, you've been plenty helpful already. 😉

 

[Aeacus]

Are there any specific Corsair 140mm fans that you'd recommend for the bottom intake?

ML140 Pro LED (or non-LED version), specs;
red LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050047-WW
blue LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050048-WW
white LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050046-WW
no LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...Levitation-Fans/ml-pro-config/p/CO-9050045-WW

Why?
After searching far and wide, i found that Corsair ML Pro LED fans (both 120mm and 140mm) are one of the best (if not the best) fans when it comes to the balance in airflow and static pressure. Sure, ML Pro LED fans have premium price but they also have mag-lev bearing (one of the few fans that have it) and very good balance between airflow (CFM) and static pressure (mmH2O).

pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/D34NnQ,cfyxFT,sYNypg,ycH48d/

Here are the pros and cons of 140mm Corsair ML140 Pro LED fans:
Pros

• great airflow (20 - 97 CFM)
• great static pressure (0.2 - 3.0 mmH2O)
• great RPM range (400 - 2000 RPM)
• PWM control (4-pin fan)
• mag-lev bearing (lifetime 300.000+ hours)
• 4 color options (red, blue, white LED and non-LED version)

Mediocre
* noise output (16 - 37 dB(A))

Cons
* price

I have Corsair ML Pro LED series fans in use with 2 out of 3 of my PCs (Skylake and Haswell, full specs with pics in my sig). Per PC, i have 4x Corsair ML Pro LED series fans and 3x NZXT AER140 RGB fans. While i can get by with (let's say) 3 fans, there's a benefit of having more case fans. With 7 case fans, i don't have to run my fans at high RPM to maintain the proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases and i can run them at much slower speeds, which in turn also reduces noise coming from fans. My case fans run at about 800 - 1100 RPM and i can hardly hear them.

Note: the RGB versions of ML-series fans are nowhere near close to the performance of ML Pro LED fans. But if you want RGB eyecandy that you can control via iCUE, then best would be: ML140 RGB Elite,
specs: https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categ...Levitation-Fan/p/CO-9050114-WW#tab-tech-specs

Which offers: 82.9 CFM, 2.06 mmH2O, 1600 RPM, 31.8 dB(A).

plus I have a 18V makita blower to de-dust my stuff (highly recommend btw!).

For that, i bought Nuair Miny air compressor (1100W, 8 Bar, 180 l/min). But since it's 96 dB(A), i can not use it indoors, to clean my PCs. It's way too loud for indoor use.

Spoiler: Image of the air compressor. Click here to view.

So, when i get time, i'll look into another, more quieter option, for indoor use. Perhaps Makita blower, which can be used with the Makita power banks i have for my Makita drill.

 

[lewis1190]

ML140 Pro LED (or non-LED version), specs;
red LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050047-WW
blue LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050048-WW
white LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050046-WW
no LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...Levitation-Fans/ml-pro-config/p/CO-9050045-WW

Why?
After searching far and wide, i found that Corsair ML Pro LED fans (both 120mm and 140mm) are one of the best (if not the best) fans when it comes to the balance in airflow and static pressure. Sure, ML Pro LED fans have premium price but they also have mag-lev bearing (one of the few fans that have it) and very good balance between airflow (CFM) and static pressure (mmH2O).

pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/D34NnQ,cfyxFT,sYNypg,ycH48d/

Here are the pros and cons of 140mm Corsair ML140 Pro LED fans:
Pros

• great airflow (20 - 97 CFM)
• great static pressure (0.2 - 3.0 mmH2O)
• great RPM range (400 - 2000 RPM)
• PWM control (4-pin fan)
• mag-lev bearing (lifetime 300.000+ hours)
• 4 color options (red, blue, white LED and non-LED version)

Mediocre
* noise output (16 - 37 dB(A))

Cons
* price

I have Corsair ML Pro LED series fans in use with 2 out of 3 of my PCs (Skylake and Haswell, full specs with pics in my sig). Per PC, i have 4x Corsair ML Pro LED series fans and 3x NZXT AER140 RGB fans. While i can get by with (let's say) 3 fans, there's a benefit of having more case fans. With 7 case fans, i don't have to run my fans at high RPM to maintain the proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases and i can run them at much slower speeds, which in turn also reduces noise coming from fans. My case fans run at about 800 - 1100 RPM and i can hardly hear them.

Note: the RGB versions of ML-series fans are nowhere near close to the performance of ML Pro LED fans. But if you want RGB eyecandy that you can control via iCUE, then best would be: ML140 RGB Elite,
specs: https://www.corsair.com/ww/en/Categ...Levitation-Fan/p/CO-9050114-WW#tab-tech-specs

Which offers: 82.9 CFM, 2.06 mmH2O, 1600 RPM, 31.8 dB(A).



For that, i bought Nuair Miny air compressor (1100W, 8 Bar, 180 l/min). But since it's 96 dB(A), i can not use it indoors, to clean my PCs. It's way too loud for indoor use.

Spoiler: Image of the air compressor. Click here to view.

So, when i get time, i'll look into another, more quieter option, for indoor use. Perhaps Makita blower, which can be used with the Makita power banks i have for my Makita drill.

Thanks for all the help!

I've recessed my front 3 fans this evening, and whilst the temps have definitely improved, I was hoping for a bit more of a difference. I'll follow up with a pic tomorrow evening.

I've bought a digital thermomenter from Amazon so I can get an idea for ambient room temp.
Currently idle, my ambient room temp is 22.1C, and my temps look like the following:

https://imgur.com/a/BJYAf25

View: https://imgur.com/a/BJYAf25


I've also ordered 2 ML Pro NON-LED fans for my bottom intake and to replace my back fan, thanks for the recommendation! I would've gone for the RGB elite, but it's a pain to get hold of in the UK, and I can get this non-LED one from Amazon by tomorrow. Plus, like you said, better performance

Since stress-testing on Cyberpunk, MW2 and Darktide tonight, the highest I've seen my coolant temp go is ~38C in Cyberpunk. However, I've had to make a few shortcuts that I'm not 100% happy with.

It seems my RGB on my RAM sticks increase them by about 5-7C when running on XMP. Ideally, I'd like to have them on full purple, as I've always had them; I've currently got them as low as they can go. After Cyberpunk, the RAM sticks hit about 46-48C wth the lights OFF. With them on, they're touching about 55C with XMP. Currently, I've kept the RAM RGB off so I can run around 37C on myCPU coolant temp; the absolute max I'm happy with.

In terms of the negative air pressure now in my case, I'm a bit concerned that the slits in my front panel of the InWin are where a majority of the drawn air is coming from. Would I need to "seal" that gap to force cool air to be drawn in more from the rear end of the case? (or is that not how it works? 😅)

With the tempered glass panel off, I'd typically hit about 35-36C on coolant temps for my CPU (fans are about 25% of the speed compared to +37C), and my RAM sticks hover around 35-45C, no more.

It seems like I've still got a ways to go in terms of the coolant temp I want, but I'm starting to worry that I may not be able to achieve what I'd like, even with all of your much-appreciated advice 😢

This weekend, I'll fit my 2 fans, move my Hard Drive cage and let you know if that changes temps any further. Hopefulle that bottom intake will help to cool the GPU further, although I'm unsure how I'm going to cool my RAM any better at this point 😬

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Aeacus]

I was hoping for a bit more of a difference.

Ramp up your fan RPM for better difference. Or for the very least, you can look what kind of temps you'd get, with 100% fan speed.

It seems like I've still got a ways to go in terms of the coolant temp I want, but I'm starting to worry that I may not be able to achieve what I'd like, even with all of your much-appreciated advice 😢

Here, i'm curious , why do you want to keep your coolant temp at 37C or below?
E.g, do you have a White Paper, stating that this specific coolant, must be kept 37C or below?

Since as far as i can see, you temps are very good, compared to the hardware you're running.

In terms of the negative air pressure now in my case, I'm a bit concerned that the slits in my front panel of the InWin are where a majority of the drawn air is coming from. Would I need to "seal" that gap to force cool air to be drawn in more from the rear end of the case? (or is that not how it works? 😅)

Sure, you can seal those up, to better optimize the airflow path. Also, it may pay a temp diff role (albeit small), for the RAM.

After Cyberpunk, the RAM sticks hit about 46-48C wth the lights OFF. With them on, they're touching about 55C with XMP.

RAM temps are a bit on the toasty side. But then again, this is another downside cooling CPU with an AIO. (Since you don't have tower cooler, to provide additional cooling for the RAM.)

While DDR4 can sustain up to 81C, you could start seeing memory errors at 50+C and BSoD at 60+C.

So, look what bottom intake fans would do in terms of RAM cooling and if no help, increase your fan speeds.

 

[lewis1190]

Ramp up your fan RPM for better difference. Or for the very least, you can look what kind of temps you'd get, with 100% fan speed.

Tried this earlier, results here:

https://imgur.com/a/K9fnyRI

View: https://imgur.com/a/K9fnyRI


In the last pic, I changed the fan curve to "quiet" and let it run for 10 mins just to see what would happen to temps. The PC sounded great! The temps? Not so much...

Here, i'm curious , why do you want to keep your coolant temp at 37C or below?
E.g, do you have a White Paper, stating that this specific coolant, must be kept 37C or below?

Since as far as i can see, you temps are very good, compared to the hardware you're running.

It's normally just a rule of thumb that I'm following, as with my 1070, my coolant temp would never exceed 37C in typical ambient December temps. Albeit, I was never running XMP with the 1070 (long story, forgot to turn it back on after sorting a few issues).

It's also dictated by the noise of my iCUE fan curve. Over 36C is when the fan RPMs really start ramping up. My two radiator fans and three exhausts all run in the default "Balanced" preset, with the pump on "Quiet".

As said previously:

• With my tempered glass side panel off, my coolant temp goes to 35°C. This also makes my ram go from 55°C to 45°C, and my GPU from 80°C to 65°C. GPU hotspot and VRAM temps are 10°C hotter, but also fall by 15°C.

Because I know that this is possible with my temps, it would be great to get as close to this as possible. Not to mention it's orders of magnitude quieter too! 😅

Here's the RPM differences after playing on Cyberpunk until the temperatures would not rise any further; time taken for that noted in each point.

• https://imgur.com/a/YnaT9UT

  View: https://imgur.com/a/YnaT9UT
  

Both "runs" had the game closed and allowed the components to cool before restarting the game and running the exact same scenes / locations. Both image sets have XMP on, my RGB on the RAM are on full purple bright (what I used to run it at with the 1070). GPU is undervolted, running at 98% usage, CPU is hovering around 50% usage, but never typically exceeds 64C package temp.

I've done some testing with my fans too for noise, here's where they start becoming "loud" to me.

Elite Capellix fans (In my pictures, these are fans 1 and 2 under my H115I Elite Capellix iCUE tile):

• Slight noise at 60% (1200rpm)
• Slightly louder at 70% (1390 rpm)
• "hmmm must be toasty in there" at 80% (1560rpm)
• "damn that must be hot" at 90% (1700rpm), sounds similar to 80%
• Wind tunnel at 100% (1820rpm), not sure how to properly measure this, but it's very "hmmm do i need to let the pc take a break for 5 mins?"

Other 3 front fans (now exhausts) (In the iCUE pictures, these are fans 3-5):

• Stops being near-silent (besides the usual drone) at 50% (1109rpm)
• Slight noise at 60% (1300rpm)
• "hmmm must be toasty in there" at 70% (1457rpm)
• Can hear through headphones watching a video at a reasonable volume at 80% (1577rpm)
• "hmmm must be toasty in there" at 90% (1750rpm)
• Wind tunnel at 100% (1854rpm)

I also see people online who max their coolant temps out at nowhere near as high as 37C, and some people say anything beyong 38-40C typically signifies a problem in a room at 22C ambient room temps. Examples of this below:

• View: https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/es9dkq/comment/ff8rwdv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
  
• View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Corsair/comments/8xe08u/comment/e22ns63/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
  
• View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Corsair/comments/8xe08u/safe_aio_coolant_temperatures_during_summer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
  ("under heavy load eg. gaming for hours it can rise to 35-36°C", yet mine reaches that within 10 minutes of Cyberpunk, as shown above)

With both of these 100%-ing out together, sounds like a double-wind tunnel.
Of course, I could just create a custom curve and tell my fans to "shut up", but that doesn't seem like the smartest approach, as shown by the first imgur link.😅

Sure, you can seal those up, to better optimize the airflow path. Also, it may pay a temp diff role (albeit small), for the RAM.

If I try this I'll let you know.

RAM temps are a bit on the toasty side. But then again, this is another downside cooling CPU with an AIO. (Since you don't have tower cooler, to provide additional cooling for the RAM.)

While DDR4 can sustain up to 81C, you could start seeing memory errors at 50+C and BSoD at 60+C.

So, look what bottom intake fans would do in terms of RAM cooling and if no help, increase your fan speeds.

Fans are coming at 1pm tomorrow, so I'll update further when they're in and running! I'm fairly pessimistic about this affecting/improving RAM temps, as there's a big ol' 3080 smack-between the new intake and the RAM sticks

Hopefully this wasn't too much of a ramble, thanks so much again for your help!

 

[Aeacus]

Because I know that this is possible with my temps, it would be great to get as close to this as possible. Not to mention it's orders of magnitude quieter too! 😅

Correction: It is possible with no airflow path, but instead essentially running open-air PC case, making most of your case fans redundant.

Since most PC cases are closed boxes, where air volume inside is limited (compared to the whole room you're in). And due to the small air volume inside the PC case, it will heat up much faster, compared when you remove the side panel and use your entire room's air volume as makeshift "heatsink".

If you were to close all doors/windows in your room, blocking all ventilation as well, open up PC side panel, and letting PC to run 100% load, eventually (after some days) the air inside the room would be as hot as it is when you have PC side panel closed.

With PC airflow, you'll either have: great cooling (low temps) but loud noise OR poor cooling (high temps) and no noise. Can't have both. Unless you replace your PC case with open-air type.

For open-air type PC cases, look towards Thermaltake and their Core lineup. E.g Core P3 or Core P5,
Tt full Core lineup: https://www.thermaltake.com/product...product_list_limit=30&product_list_order=name

These open-air type PC cases are actually quite neat. They aren't closed boxes (hindering airflow), they look like showcase PCs and many of them can be mounted on the wall as well.
And fan wise, all you need, is two fans on your AIO, to cool CPU. GPU and PSU has their own fans to keep them cool and the rest of hardware (storage drives, RAM etc) are sitting in open, relying on natural convection for cooling. Or when to put it another way, rest of the components aren't heated up by a GPU in a small closed box.

 

[lewis1190]

Correction: It is possible with no airflow path, but instead essentially running open-air PC case, making most of your case fans redundant.

Since most PC cases are closed boxes, where air volume inside is limited (compared to the whole room you're in). And due to the small air volume inside the PC case, it will heat up much faster, compared when you remove the side panel and use your entire room's air volume as makeshift "heatsink".

If you were to close all doors/windows in your room, blocking all ventilation as well, open up PC side panel, and letting PC to run 100% load, eventually (after some days) the air inside the room would be as hot as it is when you have PC side panel closed.

With PC airflow, you'll either have: great cooling (low temps) but loud noise OR poor cooling (high temps) and no noise. Can't have both. Unless you replace your PC case with open-air type.

For open-air type PC cases, look towards Thermaltake and their Core lineup. E.g Core P3 or Core P5,
Tt full Core lineup: https://www.thermaltake.com/product...product_list_limit=30&product_list_order=name

These open-air type PC cases are actually quite neat. They aren't closed boxes (hindering airflow), they look like showcase PCs and many of them can be mounted on the wall as well.
And fan wise, all you need, is two fans on your AIO, to cool CPU. GPU and PSU has their own fans to keep them cool and the rest of hardware (storage drives, RAM etc) are sitting in open, relying on natural convection for cooling. Or when to put it another way, rest of the components aren't heated up by a GPU in a small closed box.

Hi Aeacus,

I've put in the fans today and have got them all set up and running. It's a shame I can't get these fans to listen to my coolant temp, but at least I can manually control the RPM to prove that these fans will make a huge difference to my temps.

When not under load, they run super-quiet! They also run very loud over 1000RPM, so I was expecting a big difference.

Somehow, these fans have made everything worse. A lot worse.

First of all, my idle temps are now 32C, instead of yesterday's 29.2C. Both readings were taken with an ambient room temp of 21.5C. Not a good start.

Below is a image of what 10 minutes of Cyberpunk did to my temps. Running on the following settings:

• Run for 10 minutes
• 21.5 room temperature
• XMP on
• Lights on full purple
• Intakes on 1730RPM
• Commander fans on balanced (specific RPMs in the screenshot)

Link to image here:

https://imgur.com/a/BeL3Cl5

View: https://imgur.com/a/BeL3Cl5


I've also uploaded a video so you can hear what I'm hearing. These are the ML140s running on 90%. Turning them up makes absolutely no difference to my coolant temp. Video of sound here, although this sounds much quieter than what it actually is:

View: https://youtu.be/1QjaeuF6nIc


I'm not really sure now what to do. I guess I'll need to send these fans back to Amazon and go back to my old AF140 fan, but I've got no idea where to go from here.

 

[Phaaze88]

@lewis1190 , hi, can I ask if the following fan options are filtered/not filtered:
-side
-interior
-bottom
-top
-rear

Can you please re-take those photos with the glass panel off? That's making the images blurry and causing odd reflections.

Also, where does your priority lie: cpu cooling or gpu cooling. It's a pick your poison scenario, where you can't avoid one cooler 'feeding' used air into the other, except with tower air coolers and blower gpus.

 

[Aeacus]

Somehow, these fans have made everything worse. A lot worse.

Your most recent telemetry of:

cyberpunk 10 mins, 21.5C room temperature, XMP, lights on full purple, intakes on 1730RPM, commander fans on balanced

Is actually better than your earlier telemetry of:

cyberpunk 94 mins, 21.2C room temp, XMP, lights on full purple, retook image at 38.1C coolant temp to highlight fan speeds change

Whereby you shaved ~4C off from GPU max temps, ~4C off from RAM temps, ~2C off from CPU temps while CPU is working 10-18% harder and you only gained 1C for coolant temp. <- And you call that "a lot worse"?

Question: if getting lower temps than before is "a lot worse" for you, then what is "good" for you? Getting far higher temps?

Turning them up makes absolutely no difference to my coolant temp.

This brings me back to my earlier question, which you did not answer:

why do you want to keep your coolant temp at 37C or below?
E.g, do you have a White Paper, stating that this specific coolant, must be kept 37C or below?

-----

but I've got no idea where to go from here.

You did read my previous reply to this one, right?
Namely this part:

With PC airflow, you'll either have: great cooling (low temps) but loud noise OR poor cooling (high temps) and no noise. Can't have both. Unless you replace your PC case with open-air type.

For open-air type PC cases, look towards Thermaltake and their Core lineup. E.g Core P3 or Core P5,
Tt full Core lineup: https://www.thermaltake.com/product...product_list_limit=30&product_list_order=name

These open-air type PC cases are actually quite neat. They aren't closed boxes (hindering airflow), they look like showcase PCs and many of them can be mounted on the wall as well.
And fan wise, all you need, is two fans on your AIO, to cool CPU. GPU and PSU has their own fans to keep them cool and the rest of hardware (storage drives, RAM etc) are sitting in open, relying on natural convection for cooling. Or when to put it another way, rest of the components aren't heated up by a GPU in a small closed box.

 

[lewis1190]

Your most recent telemetry of:

Is actually better than your earlier telemetry of:

Whereby you shaved ~4C off from GPU max temps, ~4C off from RAM temps, ~2C off from CPU temps while CPU is working 10-18% harder and you only gained 1C for coolant temp. <- And you call that "a lot worse"?

Question: if getting lower temps than before is "a lot worse" for you, then what is "good" for you? Getting far higher temps?



This brings me back to my earlier question, which you did not answer:



-----



You did read my previous reply to this one, right?
Namely this part:

Hi Aeacus,

Sorry, it seems I haven't been very clear with what I consider "cool" temperatures.

My biggest focus is keeping my coolant temp as low as possible. 37 and below is ideal, and I've explained why in my reply on Friday (should be post #7 in this thread). I said a lot in that reply, but to summarise, 37C and below is great for acoustics, but most importantly, its what it used to run at before my new GPU. I've also seen people in other threads with the same cooler, having much cooler coolant temps under load. I linked a few examples in the #7 reply.

With these new fans in, I'm not too sure how I can view these temps as improved. As opposed to taking 94 minutes for my coolant temp to reach 38C, it only takes merely 10 minutes for my coolant temp to reach 39C now with these new fans as intakes. Sure, the other components are a bit cooler by 3C, but the whole PC takes 84 minutes less to reach the temperature where the temp graphs "level off".

The TLDR in this is that my coolant temp (which is the most important factor to me) is heating up much quicker with these two new ML fans than what it is with my old single AF140, and I can't really understand why.

Additionally, my ML140 fan on my bottom intake is MUCH louder than the one on the side, running at the same RPM. Not 100% sure what that's about, so I'll probably test by making them both face sideways.

I totally understand what you're saying by "you can either have a cool case or a quiet case", but with the recent rise in my coolant temps, and the change in my acoustics, I feel as if I have neither.

Apologies for sounding so negative, it's been a long week with all this 😅, thanks so much again for your time!

I've now flipped the top left intake to an exhaust now, so my sole intake is now on the bottom. I'm hoping to chuck the GPU heat out of the back, with the bottom intake hopefully providing fresh air to the radiator. I'm not sure how well that will work, but I'll keep you updated!

 

[lewis1190]

@lewis1190 , hi, can I ask if the following fan options are filtered/not filtered:
-side
-interior
-bottom
-top
-rear

Can you please re-take those photos with the glass panel off? That's making the images blurry and causing odd reflections.

Also, where does your priority lie: cpu cooling or gpu cooling. It's a pick your poison scenario, where you can't avoid one cooler 'feeding' used air into the other, except with tower air coolers and blower gpus.

Hi, I'll update you with pictures soon;' I'm in the middle of rotating my radiator and repasting my CPU.

I've currently removed all dust covers for the sake of testing, but there's typically 1 dust filter on the bottom, covering the bottom intake and PSU, and there's also a dust cover on the front behind the InWin logo, but there's no fans mounted there. The rest of the openings you ask for are just metal meshing / hexagon pattern (as shown on pictures of the side panel online for the inwin509).

As for what my priorities are, I'm focusing on CPU coolant temperature.

• My GPU runs at 70-75C (+10C on hotspots and VRAM), which I'm very happy with.
• CPU often doesn't go over 65-70C, which I'm very happy with.
• RAM hangs around 45-50C, which isn't super-ideal, but I've not had any issues with.

My main concern is that I'm unsure if / how some of my other components are increasing my coolant temperatures. I've recently flipped the rear intake into an exhaust to dump the GPU (and possibly RAM) heat out, but that hasn't made much difference, so maybe having it as an intake was helping to cool my radiator, despite it carrying "used" air from the RAM and 3080 backplate.

UPDATE: Case Pictures w/ panel off, picture of back side panel mesh:

https://imgur.com/a/c34FvCT

Also, I've currently got the back hex panel off too; was just checking everything still works when plugged back in! 😅
View: https://imgur.com/a/c34FvCT

 

[Aeacus]

Somehow, i missed your reply (got loads of topic i answer daily and have other stuff going on too).

I've also seen people in other threads with the same cooler, having much cooler coolant temps under load. I linked a few examples in the #7 reply.

Other people's builds are not comparable to your build.

E.g, do those people, whom you linked, also run i7-11700K with RTX 3080 in an InWin 509 PC case? If not, then none of their builds are comparable to yours, despite them using Corsair AIO. And not the very same AIO either, but different ones. Unless... you consider H150i Pro and H115i same as your H115i Elite Capellix?

sigh ......

It's like when one bloke has Porsche 911 GT3 RS, another bloke has Porsche 911 Turbo and you have Porsche 911 Carrera S. Whereby you're referencing to the other two blokes and complain as of why your Porsche 911 Carrera S doesn't perform equally as good as other two cars do. While completely disregarding all differences between the cars. Since after all, they all are "Porsche 911", right? And thus, they all MUST perform equally good, right?

but to summarise, 37C and below is great for acoustics, but most importantly, its what it used to run at before my new GPU.

You had your coolant at 37C and below with GTX 1070, which is 150W GPU. Now you have RTX 3080, which is 320W GPU. Double + then some, of your previous GPU. And with it, GPU heat output is also essentially doubled.

Now, are you willing to accept that your new GPU produces FAR MORE heat than your previous GPU?

If you are willing to accept it, then you must also realize that it will increase the temps within your PC, including the coolant temp. Since rad fans are pushing the far hotter GPU exhaust air through the rad, heating up the coolant far more, than GTX 1070 ever could.

But if you are not willing to accept it, then my help ends here. If one refuses to accept the laws of thermodynamics, then there's no point for me to flog a dead horse.

 

[lewis1190]

Somehow, i missed your reply (got loads of topic i answer daily and have other stuff going on too).



Other people's builds are not comparable to your build.

E.g, do those people, whom you linked, also run i7-11700K with RTX 3080 in an InWin 509 PC case? If not, then none of their builds are comparable to yours, despite them using Corsair AIO. And not the very same AIO either, but different ones. Unless... you consider H150i Pro and H115i same as your H115i Elite Capellix?

sigh ......

It's like when one bloke has Porsche 911 GT3 RS, another bloke has Porsche 911 Turbo and you have Porsche 911 Carrera S. Whereby you're referencing to the other two blokes and complain as of why your Porsche 911 Carrera S doesn't perform equally as good as other two cars do. While completely disregarding all differences between the cars. Since after all, they all are "Porsche 911", right? And thus, they all MUST perform equally good, right?



You had your coolant at 37C and below with GTX 1070, which is 150W GPU. Now you have RTX 3080, which is 320W GPU. Double + then some, of your previous GPU. And with it, GPU heat output is also essentially doubled.

Now, are you willing to accept that your new GPU produces FAR MORE heat than your previous GPU?

If you are willing to accept it, then you must also realize that it will increase the temps within your PC, including the coolant temp. Since rad fans are pushing the far hotter GPU exhaust air through the rad, heating up the coolant far more, than GTX 1070 ever could.

But if you are not willing to accept it, then my help ends here. If one refuses to accept the laws of thermodynamics, then there's no point for me to flog a dead horse.

No worries at all, your answers are much appreciated!

I totally understand what you mean about the whole "different people with different builds" thing.

Now, for the sake of this example, I'd like to ignore everyone else's builds and temps for the moment and focus solely on the temps I have now (with the 2 new fans), vs the temps I had on Friday (with the single AF140 intake).
Also for this example, I'd like to primarily focus on coolant temperature; rather than CPU, GPU and RAM.

On Friday, here were my temps, after playing Cyberpunk for 24 mins, variables noted in the imgur title/:

https://imgur.com/a/sPuLLny

View: https://imgur.com/a/sPuLLny


As shown the coolant temps are 36C after 24 minutes. Here's what I imagine the airflow looked like:

https://imgur.com/a/KPuoV6s

View: https://imgur.com/a/KPuoV6s


With a less-powerful airflow fan, and a second intake from the bottom, I'd expect today's setup temps to be much better.

As a refresher for the current fan setup I'm running, here's where I'm at:

• 1x 140ML fan on the back, as exhaust (To get rid of GPU heat)
• 1x 140ML fan on the bottom, as cool intake
• 2x 140 Elite Capellix fans on the radiator, exhausting towards the front panel.
  • Today, I've also flipped the radiator pipes so that they're pipes down now; probably worth mentioning
• 3x HD120 fans on the hexagonal mesh side panel, as exhaust.

I'd expect the airflow to look like this:

https://imgur.com/a/FKAWxH6

View: https://imgur.com/a/FKAWxH6


And here's the temps for that, variables noted in the imgur title:

https://imgur.com/a/04pIoDl

View: https://imgur.com/a/04pIoDl


As we can see, these extra 2 fans cause the coolant temp to run hotter, but I can't understand why. I'm dumping GPU heat out of the back now, causing a ~10C drop in my GPU thermals, which is great! But then the coolant temp has increased compared to Friday. As far as I'm aware, there seems to be less heat in the case than what there is on Friday, yet more heat in the coolant. By comparison, it seems the AF140 and no other intake provides better cooling (for the CPU coolant) than these 2 ML140s, but I just can't understand why 😭.

I'm using the 3080 both on Friday and today, so I don't think it's anything to do with how much hotter the 3080 runs; it ran hotter on Friday but I also got better coolant temps on that day as well 🤔.

Hopefully this explains it a bit better, if there's anything you'd like me to clarify, please let me know!

 

[Phaaze88]

As for what my priorities are, I'm focusing on CPU coolant temperature.

Ok. For the best possible coolant temperature, 2 things need to happen:
1)Pump needs to be maxed out. Should already have that covered.
2)The cooler needs direct access to the coolest air source, which is in your room(always cooler than the air inside the case), and it should be used as an intake.
3)Your 3080 dumps all its waste heat inside the PC, so using the H115i as an exhaust will not help you achieve your goal, as it makes the coolant absorb more heat energy.

UPDATE: Case Pictures w/ panel off, picture of back side panel mesh:
[images]

The best thing you can do here for coolant thermals is to:
1)Flip those side fans to intake.
2)Flip the H115i's fans so they grab the side intake air. Now, some fans do better pushing air through radiators rather than pulling it through; may have to experiment with that a little.
3)You can keep the bottom intake where it is, but beware that you will need to keep it clean more frequently than other areas; bottom intakes are the quickest to collect and get clogged by dust.
4)Rear fan exhaust.

 

[Aeacus]

As we can see, these extra 2 fans cause the coolant temp to run hotter, but I can't understand why. I'm dumping GPU heat out of the back now, causing a ~10C drop in my GPU thermals, which is great! But then the coolant temp has increased compared to Friday. As far as I'm aware, there seems to be less heat in the case than what there is on Friday, yet more heat in the coolant.

Less heat, yes. But also less air to pass through the rad and cool down the coolant. Since having ML140 Pro at the rear as exhaust, it basically halves the available air in your PC case, which used to flow through the rad earlier, when you used your AF140 as rear intake.

If you were to flip the rear ML140 Pro around, as an intake, you'd have similar setup as you had with your AF140, but since you also have bottom intake, and both ML140 Pro fans move far more air than single AF140 ever could, you may see better temps than in the beginning.

Edit: Took your image and edited it, to show what i mean;

-----

The airflow setup described by Phaaze88 (front/side - intake, bottom - intake, rear - exhaust) does give your coolant the lowest temps, since all the fresh air, which would be drawn in from the front of the case, is 1st passing through the rad, cooling the coolant down. But with this setup, there are other issues.

Namely, you may see 60+C on your RAM and your GPU may thermal throttle as well. It also creates extreme Positive Pressure inside your PC case. But as long as coolant temp is low, this is all that matters, right?

 

[lewis1190]

Less heat, yes. But also less air to pass through the rad and cool down the coolant. Since having ML140 Pro at the rear as exhaust, it basically halves the available air in your PC case, which used to flow through the rad earlier, when you used your AF140 as rear intake.

If you were to flip the rear ML140 Pro around, as an intake, you'd have similar setup as you had with your AF140, but since you also have bottom intake, and both ML140 Pro fans move far more air than single AF140 ever could, you may see better temps than in the beginning.

Edit: Took your image and edited it, to show what i mean;

-----

The airflow setup described by Phaaze88 (front/side - intake, bottom - intake, rear - exhaust) does give your coolant the lowest temps, since all the fresh air, which would be drawn in from the front of the case, is 1st passing through the rad, cooling the coolant down. But with this setup, there are other issues.

Namely, you may see 60+C on your RAM and your GPU may thermal throttle as well. It also creates extreme Positive Pressure inside your PC case. But as long as coolant temp is low, this is all that matters, right?

Thanks! Apologies if you feel like I'm sending you round in circles, but everything you said has been hugely helpful!

In this case, I'll definitely continue to use the rear AND bottom as an intake, so we can feed the GPU and radiator as much cool air as possible for a reverse-flow setup.

I did put the AF140 in last night, and played Cyberpunk and MW2 for around 3 hours back-to-back, all inner lights on max. Component temps were the usual (GPU 67 highest, RAM just touching 50C, CPU 64C highest), but coolant temps were around 34 with the lights off, then took about 2 hours to get to 36.5C with the lights on, and never went over that!

I have no idea what act of God has caused this, so I'll need to take another look at this after work tonight to ensure I didn't actually dream these temps 🤣.

What I'll probably do is run the old fan for ~2 hours again to see if it's consistent with last night, then I'll put the new ML140 back in as rear intake and check the temp differences running it for another two hours.

EDIT: I'm back to working now this week, so it'll probably be a few days before I update with a new reply!