Question Help with troubleshooting needed. USB overcurrent issue with brand new MSI X399 Creation

[raulo1985]

Hi. I'm building a rig and having some troubles, so I'm trying to figure what the faulty component is. All of them are brand new, with 0 use.


Motherboard: MSI X399 Creation

CPU: AMD 2990WX

PSU: Cooler Master V1000 80 Plus Gold

RAM: G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 modules, but used only one during troubleshooting)

Graphic Card (to be able to see POST messages): MSI Geforce GTX 1070 8G


Note: this system is going to be used for 3d rendering and video editing tasks, always at stock frequencies, no overclock intended.


Description of the issue:


After finished building the system and turned it on, I immediately started getting the "overcurrent have been detected on your usb device" error message, and the system shuts down after 15 seconds. That's all I've seen at the monitor, no other POST messages, and I'm unable to enter the BIOS. I've never got past that part. I've read a lot on the internet about this issue (I'm kind of a veteran building rigs, but somehow I had never run into this one) and it seems that most of the times it ends up being a hardware problem, mainly something shorting out. Weird, considering this is a brand new motherboard, and it's the flagship mobo of MSI, so I expect top notch quality control.


I did many things to find the problem, without success. After a few basic and naive tries, I ended up breadboarding the mobo at a wooden surface, with only the essential components connected and with the metal backplate that goes over the backpanel taken out: cpu, cpu fan (it works, so its connection is not shorting, I guess), graphic card (to see the messages at POST), PSU, and one ram module installed at the correct slot. All of the power cables were connected (main ATX cable, both 4 + 4 8 pin cpu power cables, the PCI-E molex power cable and the PCI-E power cable connected to the graphic card. No other components or peripherals were connected at this point, including the case usb cable, which I tried both connecting and disconnecting it. I also succesfully updated the BIOS using the Bios flashback button, and cleared the CMOS like ten times, both by taking out the battery and by using the clear CMOS button. Needless to say, I checked every single usb port and usb header of the mobo with a flashlight, looking for bent pins or things like that. Everything looks perfect, and I really, really looked. I also looked at the backside of the mobo, specially the zones related to the usb ports or headers. Everything looks fine again. I also took out the cpu looking for bent cpu pins, and the same, all looks good.


One thing I did to see if there was a real faulty usb port that wasn't even receiving power, was to connect a usb flashdrive that has a led to every single usb port, both from the backpanel and from the front panel (when the case cable was connected to the mobo, of course). Its led blinked normally when placed on every usb port during the few seconds the system stays on, so at least from a power point of view every usb port is alive and doesn't seem to be shorting out.


Well, as you can see, I tried everything I've thought off, and followed every tip I've read on the internet. Before I try to RMA this thing, I wanted to ask you if this could be a PSU problem instead of a mobo one. I don't have experience with this issue, that's why I'm asking for advice. I don't want to go through the trouble and waiting time of the RMA process (I live in South America and bought this at Amazon), only to find out that it was the PSU all the time. I already tested it on another system and works just fine, and it's a very well reputed PSU with plenty of power for at least getting this rig to POST. I know that this system is a beast, but there are reports of the exact same basic rig (MSI X399 Creation + 2990WX + G.Skill TridentZ) that run on a 650W PSU. Of course those systems can't overclock and usually suffer from some stability issues, but it shows that a good PSU, from a good brand, with 1000W and being 80 Plus Gold is more than enough to at least POST, I suppose. Has anyone had this issue and the faulty component ended up being the PSU? This is one of those problems that seems to be present since years ago (mostly with MSI and ASUS motherboards, acording to what I could read), and never has a unique cause or solution, sadly. And MSI doesn't help either, I already placed a ticket and received no answer so far.


Note: By the way, sadly I don't have a better PSU now to test the mobo with it, the V1000 is the best one I have right now (the other ones don't have a second 8 pin connector, and have less wattage). But, like I said before, it's tested on another system, so the only reason I imagine for the PSU being the root of the problem is that is not enought for even getting this new system to POST, which shouldn't be the case in my opinion. Any ideas?


Thanks in advance

 

[alexoiu]

Hi,
To rule out the PSU, try testing though different one, even if not featuring the second 8 pin cable and less wattage. See if POST-ing and, if yes, if same error message.

 

[raulo1985]

Hi,
To rule out the PSU, try testing though different one, even if not featuring the second 8 pin cable and less wattage. See if POST-ing and, if yes, if same error message.

Thanks for your reply. Probably I'll be able to do that later today, I don't have the other psus with me now.

Anyway, if it turns out to be the psu, it would be because it's faulty, right? Or do you think that a Cooler Master V1000 80 plus gold could be insufficient for this system to get past that error message? I've never built a system with this kind of components (I mean, so high end), but taking into account that I'm breadboarding the mobo, with only the essential peripherals, and trying only to POST (which doesn't draw too much power from every component), I'm under the impression that a V1000 should be plenty. Is that so?

Well, in case that with another PSU I get the same error message, I guess that the only thing that can be responsible is the motherboard, or is there something else I should be checking?
In case I get past that message with the other psu, even if I receive another error message that would mean that the psu is the problem and that this kind of rig needs a psu bigger than 1000W?

I'm really low on budget for this purpose, so I don't want to make a mistake. Either buying a new mobo or a new psu for this system means like 500 bucks for each one, and I can't afford to buy both. What I mean is that I must be sure of which is the faulty component here before spending on a new one.

Thanks again.

 

[alexoiu]

You're welcome.
For testing purposes, a lower wattage PSU should work. Let's see firstly the result and then decide.

 

[raulo1985]

You're welcome.
For testing purposes, a lower wattage PSU should work. Let's see firstly the result and then decide.

Done. I just did some breadboarding with only the essentials (cpu, cpu fan, graphic card, psu and one ram module on the correct slot). I cleared the CMOS too. The only difference this time was the psu, I tried with a Corsair TX950W 80 plus bronze (a little old, but tested on another system and with almost 1000W), and the result was the same (I can only see the "overcurrent..." message". This psu is not modular and has only one 8 pin cable, but for testing purposes I think it should be enough, at least for POSTing. And the error message didn't change, so does that mean that the mobo could be the only responsible for this issue in this case? I doubt it could be the cpu, if it was faulty it shouldn't give that kind of message, and cpus are supposed to be less likely to be damaged than a motherboard. Any other ideas? In your opinion, this rules out any other component and leaves the mobo as guilty? Like I said, buying a new one is not cheap at all, so I really want to make sure it's the mobo. And if it is indeed the mobo, what a shame. This is the flagship motherboard of MSI for the 2990WX, and apparently it was doa. Quality control wasn't the best, it seems.

Well, in case I have to buy a new one, do you have experience with a rig like this using a psu like the one I have (I'm refering to the Cooler Master V1000 80 plus gold)? I'm not going to overclock it, but I'll use it for 3d rendering and video edition. When I have some extra money I'll buy a better psu, but in the meanwhile do you think that this psu can handle this kind of system without stability issues?

 

[alexoiu]

It looks like a motherboard issue, then.
Here's an option, in the same price range:
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Extreme-Motherboard-Threadripper/dp/B07M6SD5GP
There are cheaper options too, more suitable, since not OC-ing, like

Amazon.com: ASUS ROG STRIX X399-E GAMING AMD Ryzen Threadripper TR4 DDR4 M.2 U.2 X399 EATX HEDT Motherboard with onboard 802.11AC WiFi, USB 3.1 Gen2, and AURA Sync RGB Lighting: Computers & Accessories

Buy ASUS ROG STRIX X399-E GAMING AMD Ryzen Threadripper TR4 DDR4 M.2 U.2 X399 EATX HEDT Motherboard with onboard 802.11AC WiFi, USB 3.1 Gen2, and AURA Sync RGB Lighting: Everything Else - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[raulo1985]

It looks like a motherboard issue, then.
Here's an option, in the same price range:
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Extreme-Motherboard-Threadripper/dp/B07M6SD5GP
There are cheaper options too, more suitable, since not OC-ing, like

Amazon.com: ASUS ROG STRIX X399-E GAMING AMD Ryzen Threadripper TR4 DDR4 M.2 U.2 X399 EATX HEDT Motherboard with onboard 802.11AC WiFi, USB 3.1 Gen2, and AURA Sync RGB Lighting: Computers & Accessories

Buy ASUS ROG STRIX X399-E GAMING AMD Ryzen Threadripper TR4 DDR4 M.2 U.2 X399 EATX HEDT Motherboard with onboard 802.11AC WiFi, USB 3.1 Gen2, and AURA Sync RGB Lighting: Everything Else - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Thanks. I also think it should be a mobo problem, but like I said, I don't have experience with this particular issue and sometimes, as I've read at other threads, the problem is not always the motherboard. Sometimes it has been the psu (the 5v lane), sometimes has been even a corrupt BIOS. I don't know if the cpu could be the cause, I haven't seen reports on that, I hope it's not the case this time. Any other idea to troubleshoot before replacing the mobo? Just to see if there's another thing I can do to make sure that the faulty component is indeed the motherboard.

By the way, in case that I have to replace the mobo, I was thinking on the exact same one. The Alpha version seems to be a nice improvement, but it's pricey. I'm not going to overclock, but I will be doing intensive 3d rendering tasks and video editing tasks. Do you think it's worth the money in this particular case? I'm all for building quality, because I want this rig to last as much as it can, and VRM cooling here kind of seems like a guarantee for that. But I'm not sure if I'm just overkilling it with that mobo, considering the price and that I won't be overclocking.

And my last question, and mainly because I don't have experience with systems that need this kind of power, do you think the Cooler Master V1000 80 plus gold could be enough at stock frequencies? At least for basic tasks like installing the OS, watch movies, things like that. For more intensive tasks, I think I'll have to look for a better PSU (I'm thinking on buying, when I have the money, the Corsair AX1600).

Thanks again for your help.

 

[alexoiu]

No problem.
Since power supply ruled out, all that remains is the board. What you could do is testing different CPU cooler, if possible. 1000W are already overkill, if using single 1070 card, even for demanding tasks. If searching for power consumption of that graphics card under load, you'd make an idea.
Now, about board and money worth, it's hard to say. It all depends on your budget. Choose a board that you can afford. Again, if not OC-ing, any average board in the 300 $ range should do.

 

[raulo1985]

Sadly, I don't have another CPU cooler for this socket, but the one I have, even though is air cooling (like I said, I'm going to run always at stock speeds), is the Noctua NH-U14S, which has nice reviews. And it's working, the few seconds that the system stays on the cpu fan spins and lights as expected.
Could the cpu be the problem? Obviously I don't have the means to try this mobo with another threadripper, but I haven't seen reports of this issue being caused by a faulty cpu. Do you think it's a possibility? I would find it weird, considering that the error messages points to a faulty usb port (which, in my head, means some kind of shorting on the mobo or a bad 5v psu lane, which shouldn't be as I tried the mobo with another tested psu with the same result).

Another question. I know this is a very subjective question, but based in your opinion and/or recent experience, which one(s) would you say are the current best brands for enthusiast level motherboards, specially for the threadrippers (X399 chipset)? Like I said before, I'm not interested in overclocking, but very interested on building quality because I want this system to last as long as it can. I was a fan of Asus some years ago, but had some bad experiences with them so I switched to MSI (I'm talking only about mobos), and now I had this problem with MSI's flagship mobo. I know that even the best brands can have faulty products, but I've been out of the game for some time and I'm trying to find out which brand is the one to go now. I'm currently reading reviews, but and opinion wouldn't hurt. Would you choose the Alpha over another MSI X399 Creation? What do you think about Gigabyte? Asrock? Another one?

Thanks again, your help is highly appreciated.

 

[raulo1985]

No problem.
Since power supply ruled out, all that remains is the board. What you could do is testing different CPU cooler, if possible. 1000W are already overkill, if using single 1070 card, even for demanding tasks. If searching for power consumption of that graphics card under load, you'd make an idea.
Now, about board and money worth, it's hard to say. It all depends on your budget. Choose a board that you can afford. Again, if not OC-ing, any average board in the 300 $ range should do.

Oh, and I'm not planning to change my graphic card for the meanwhile, so my V1000 should be plenty even for cpu demanding tasks (like 3d rendering), even if I choose the Asus Alpha mobo, right? What's your opinion about that?

 

[alexoiu]

A personal opinion - ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI. The power supply is ok. I would RMA the board and then decide, based on the result. I can't recommend any board. It's on you to decide, based on the available budget.

 

[raulo1985]

Thanks again for your quick reply. So you think the cpu is very unlikely to be the problem?

A personal opinion - ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI. The power supply is ok. I would RMA the board and then decide, based on the result. I can't recommend any board. It's on you to decide, based on the available budget.

I need this system to be up an running as soon as possible, and MSI is not replying any of my requests. Because of that, I was thinking on just buying another mobo, and when MSI decides to contact me, I’ll RMA it and maybe I’ll sell it later or give it to a relative. This is going to be a working station, right now I’m losing more money waiting than even losing the entire value of the faulty mobo.

Since I’ve been out of the game since some time, I am struggling to decide which mobo to buy. Would you recommend the Asus Alpha over the MSI Creation? Keep in mind that I’m not looking for extreme performance (no OC intented), what matters to me the most is building quality, reliability, stability at stock speeds and durability, taking into account that I will be using it with a 2990WX cpu. Let me put it this way: if you were in my position (needed a working station for cpu heavy tasks, with no intention to overclock the system, with normal requirements of feature sets like a couple of NVME ssd, like four classic HDs and the usual usb peripherals, and have a 2990WX cpu with a good air cooling solution) and budget wasn’t a concern (lets asume that all X399 high end mobos cost the same), which mobo would you go for? Always keeping in mind that you’re looking for reliability, stability and durability, with budget concerns out of the picture.

Thanks again, you’ve been very helpful.

 

[alexoiu]

The ROG STRIX X399-E .
I see no reason to pay more.

 

[raulo1985]

The ROG STRIX X399-E .
I see no reason to pay more.

Feature wise, you have a point. The Asus Zenith Extreme Alpha seems like an overkill for what I need, but I'm most concerned about reliability and durability. In other words, if I was considering the Alpha vs a less expensive mobo was because of the improved VRM cooling and, I guess, better overall quality of the components. I read some reviews of the Strix X399-E before your post, and it seems like the way to go for what I need, but the building quality and stability of the power components is what made me doubt (not saying that they are bad, but I really don't want another mobo doa or fail after one year of use). Do you know how good is the Strix in that regard comparing to the Alpha? I'm trying to look for comparisons, but it's always hard to know which mobo is more reliable looking at the big picture (time wise) by only reading reviews, and I don't know that much about electronics to understand how superior the components of the Alpha really are.

 

[alexoiu]

You can not compare them, feature-wise. The Alpha would be the winner, no doubt. But again, if not OC-ing, with a decent power supply and good cooling, no matter the tasks, any average board would be able to handle them, without failing after 1 year.
Another thing to consider is the technology progress. In 3 years you might want to upgrade the system. Why paying now a fortune for a board that you'd probably change in 3-4 years?
And last thing: what if the new board will not solve the issue?

 

[raulo1985]

You can not compare them, feature-wise. The Alpha would be the winner, no doubt. But again, if not OC-ing, with a decent power supply and good cooling, no matter the tasks, any average board would be able to handle them, without failing after 1 year.
Another thing to consider is the technology progress. In 3 years you might want to upgrade the system. Why paying now a fortune for a board that you'd probably change in 3-4 years?
And last thing: what if the new board will not solve the issue?

Thanks again for your reply. I was under the impression that a 2990WX cpu required top notch power management at mobo level, with the best VRMs and cooling you could find. Maybe I got that info from a place that exaggerated this concept, but, if not OCing, do you think that the Strix can handle the 2990WX at heavy tasks without issues? Heavy tasks like 3D rendering of heavy scenes, using Arnold as a renderer (which makes full use of all the cores of the cpu at the same time, no matter how many there are). I can't find a reliable source of information that talks about the difference in power management and VRM quality between these two boards, besides the difference in their VRM cooling solutions. Do you know something about it?
Sorry to ask all of these questions, but everytime I've read a review of the 2990WX, they always stress the importance of good VRMs (and PSU), and that appears to be one of the highlights of the Alpha. Don't know about the Strix, though. Just trying to learn here while I make my own research, to make the best possible decision

On a side note, I have to say that I have this ram for this system: G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200Mhz DIMM CAS 16 F4-3200C16D-32GTZR, but on Asus’s QVL page of the Alpha the closest ram is named F4-3200C16D-16GTZ(XMP). Is it the same memory that I have? Both are from the same brand and both are 3200 memories, with almost the same part number except for the last part. Both are two 16Gb modules. What catched my attention was that the memory modules I have are 16-18-18-38, and Asus lists this F4-3200C16D-16GTZ(XMP) memory as 16-16-16-36. They are not the same memory? Does this mean that the Zenith Extreme Alpha doesn’t support the ram i have? It’s a very good and reputed ram, I don’t see why it could not be supported, but the QVL made me doubt.

 

[alexoiu]

How long intending to keep the system and will using it cover the expenses in a convenient amount of time? If yes, then Alpha is the winner. It would be an investment in your business. Again, it's up to you. By the way, have you used Arnold on different setup? If yes, which one?
Regarding RAMs, the kit you have is compatible. But, I saw on the Arnold recommended hardware like 4 GB per CPU core.

Arnold Workstations - ZWorkstations.com

Recommended PC hardware for SolidAngle Arnold, an advanced Monte Carlo ray tracing renderer built for the demands of feature-length animation and visual effects.

zworkstations.com

And you have only 32 GB in total?

 

[raulo1985]

How long intending to keep the system and will using it cover the expenses in a convenient amount of time? If yes, then Alpha is the winner. It would be an investment in your business. Again, it's up to you. By the way, have you used Arnold on different setup? If yes, which one?
Regarding RAMs, the kit you have is compatible. But, I saw on the Arnold recommended hardware like 4 GB per CPU core.

Arnold Workstations - ZWorkstations.com

Recommended PC hardware for SolidAngle Arnold, an advanced Monte Carlo ray tracing renderer built for the demands of feature-length animation and visual effects.

zworkstations.com

And you have only 32 GB in total?

I think like 4 years would be a good guess. I guess the expenses could be covered in like 3 - 4 months (considering the other expenses I had to build this rig).
I've been using Arnold on an old i5-6600K, pretty slow renders as you can imagine.
This is in fact an investment in my business, but that doesn't mean I need a mobo that has features I don't need. That's why my only concern about chosing the Strix over the Alpha is the power management quality (VRM and stuff), but I don't know how superior is the Alpha in that regard. At least its cooling solution is better.
I have 4 modules of that ram, so 64 GB in total. But, like I said, now I'm not sure if they are compatible with the Alpha.

Update: I spoke to Asus’s customer support and they told me that that G.Skill memory is not supported for the Alpha, the 16GTZ is. I asked why, and they only told me that they’ve tested it and found it not reliable for the mobo. The latencies are not as good as the 16GTZ, but do you think that in fact the ram I have is not compatible with this mobo? Could that be the cause of the “overcurrent...” error message (the ram I have is also not on the MSI X399 Creation QVL page)?

 

[alexoiu]

I don't think so. Not sure what reliable does mean in their opinion. I don't think that the overcurrent issue could be related to those RAMs.

 

[raulo1985]

I don't think so. Not sure what reliable does mean in their opinion. I don't think that the overcurrent issue could be related to those RAMs.

Would you try them with those mobos, then? And what's your take on the VRMs and power management between the two mobos (Strix vs Alpha)? Is the difference in price worth the supposedly better quality of Alpha's VRMs and their cooling solution, stability and durability wise?

 

[alexoiu]

Yes for Alpha, definitely better quality and yes for RAMs, I would install them in that board.

 

[raulo1985]

Yes for Alpha, definitely better quality and yes for RAMs, I would install them in that board.

Why would they say that that ram is incompatible with that motherboard, then? I know that maybe it's because they haven't tested it with the Alpha and they are playing on the sure side, but that doesn't mean they are not compatible. Have you seen reports of an Alpha with a 2990WX using a ram that has 16-18-18-38 latencies? It seems that they recommend only 16-16-16-36 or better. I'm trying to find reports, no luck so far. Just want to make sure before purchasing this motherboard.