Help with upgrading older system (video card, RAM, monitor)

LC2017

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Hello!

I'm hoping to get some help in selecting a few computer components. I have an older PC built back in 2010, and the video card is no longer working. I can't afford to get a new PC atm, so I'm trying to extend the life of this PC for another year or two. I'm looking to replace the video card asap, and I'm also considering other possible worthwhile upgrades, such as an increase in RAM and a new gaming monitor.

I live in the US and typically order from Amazon, but other sites like Newegg would be fine if there's a great deal to be had. I'd be very thankful if you could provide a specific link to any computer components that you recommend. Trying to differentiate between all of the manufacturers / models out there has left my head spinning!

PC SPECS:
Processor: Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Quad Core, Overclocked)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI 3 Edition (131­GT­E767)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz (Triple-Channel)
Video Card: 1x Nvidia GeForce GTX 580 1.5GB
Power Supply: 1200W Corsair Pro Gold Series (CMPSU­1200AX)

USAGE:
This is an entertainment PC, primarily used for gaming. After upgrading, I hope to play a decent variety of games with good 40+ framerates and high+ settings (examples include MMOs like WoW and ESO, Witcher 3, Fallout 4, GTA 5). Given the age of my PC, I'm trying not to set my hopes too high as far as what current games I'll be able to play and what performance I can expect.

VIDEO CARD:
Budget is around $150. I've opted for Nvidia video cards for several years now due to past issues with AMD (drivers, black screens). I was almost sold on the GTX 1050 ti, but I keep reading that the RX 470 is a superior video card overall. I've noticed a few deals going on right now on Amazon and Newegg that would put the RX 470 within my budget. Maybe time to give AMD another chance? Note that I have no plans to overclock the card myself. Also, would bottlenecking be a serious concern with either the GTX 1050 ti or RX 470 in my system?

RAM:
System performance of my PC had become more sluggish over time. As mentioned, I won't be buying a new computer in the near future. That said, I do have concerns about putting more money into an older system like mine. I'm trying to determine if an upgrade to 12GB of RAM would significantly improve system performance and be a worthwhile investment. Or should I just stop at replacing the video card?

MONITOR:
Budget is around $100. My current monitor is an old 22" 1680x1050 Samsung, but I'd like to upgrade to a 22-24" 1080p monitor for gaming. Any decent options out there for budget monitors?

I think that about covers it! Any advice and computer component suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
 
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Firecheetah13

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ScreamSilence

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Sorry, but DONT listen to this guy.

Some of what you will read may make you lose hope in your upgrade. But read through it all. Your expectations of being stuck playing MMOs and 2015 games are too low (Therefore I have decided you don't know what you want and I will not include those old titles in the comparisons :na:). I will instead show you will be able to play Newer titles :bounce:

First of all your motherboard doesn't support Quad channel ram (seriously did he even check your parts?) The worst part is IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to run 14GB on Quad Channel 14GB is not divisible by four :fou:. On top of that his suggestion for the 14 GB "(3x2 + 1x8)" CANNOT be done. Quad Channel architecture can be used only when all four memory modules (or a multiple of four) are identical in capacity and speed, and are placed in quad-channel slots. By multiple of four I am referring to the exception that eight modules can be used on motherboards with eight memory sockets, and each group of four modules can have different capacities, but the modules inside the same group must be identical. The motherboard will then downclock the faster ram to match the slowest one Ex. 4x2@1600Mhz + 4x2@1333Mhz =16GB@1333Mhz Quad Channel
Tri Channel is the same but with multiples of 3.

Your motherboard supports only Single, Dual, and Triple channel.

The only valid point he has is you want minimum 8GB of RAM. I recommend 18GB RAM inTriple Channel. Read the RAM section for why and how it can be possible for you to keep your current RAM sticks.

Monitor
24" is a little big to be viewing at less than 3ft. (I went from a 21" to a 24" less than a month ago) Typically I am 2ft from the monitor playing dota I have to move my eyes to be able to view the map and other key elements on the border. (I used a measuring tape)
If you are used to your 22" check out this ASUS 22-inch FHD (this means 1080p) Ultra Slim Gaming Monitor [VX228H] 1080p, 1ms Rapid Response Time, Dual HDMI, Built in Speakers, Low Blue Light, Flicker Free, ASUS EyeCare https://www.amazon.com/22-inch-Monitor-VX228H-Response-Speakers/dp/B00FXOTJAA/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
It's 19 inches tall and not adjustable


Bottleneck
Your processor and RAM will bottleneck the RX470 in most modern games so you should not even start to think about overclocking yet.

CPU andThe Latests Games
Resident evil 7
your CPU exceeds the minimum requirements by 15% but falls below the recommended by 26% meanwhile the RX 470 exceeds the recommended by 35% and exceeds the minimum by 162% check it out for yourself here http://www.game-debate.com/hardware/index.php?gid=3598&graphics=Radeon%20RX%20470%204GB

An example using framerates could be found here http://gamesystemrequirements.com/game/resident-evil-7-biohazard

using your core i7-950 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 6GB RAM at 1080p you can get 35fps on very low settings.
Using the same setup but increasing RAM to 8GB you can get 40fps on very low and 35 on medium.

Motherboard Change?
Using a core i7-2600 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 8GB RAM at 1080p you can get 55fps on very low 50 on medium 40 on high and 35 on very high
Using a core i7-3770 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 8GB RAM at 1080p you can get 60fps on very low 50 on medium 40 on high and 35 on very high

As you can probably tell an i7-2600 is around the area where your bottleneck ends.

Don't Want to Change Motherboards?
there is still a ray of hope if you can find an i7-970 hexcore it uses the same LGA1336 socket as your 950. YOU WILL NEED TO UPDATE BIOS only new one I found is on ebay for $230 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-i7-970-Processor-12M-Cache-3-20-GHz-4-80-GT-s-Intel-QPI-/162373016695?hash=item25ce2f9c77:g:7-AAAOSw5cNYY1TG

there's also used ones on amazon for $185 you might find cheaper one's look around though. considering they aren't unlocked processors, they will likely have little difference from a new one. A CPU is a silicon chip which is mostly a crystalline structure and as such doesn't degrade over long periods of time. Heat above the rated thermal design will degrade a CPU but non overclocked CPUs are likely to function fine used, granted the pins are good and no signs of abuse. DO NOT buy off craigslist

On RE7
Using a core i7-970 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 8GB RAM at 1080p you can get 60fps on very low 50 on medium 40 on high and 35 on very high This is identical to the frames with the i7-3770 yay :wahoo:

Cant change the CPU?
Smile because as you can see you will still be able to run new games. Maybe not at the highest detail but they're still fun :p! I played Dying light at 720P 30fps on my old laptop alienware M17XR3 with an i7-2720QM and a GTX460M. Loved it!
So even though your CPU will bottleneck you from the highest settings and the full potential of the RX470 you can still run the latest AAA titles RE7, For Honor, and Tom clancy's Wildlands on an acceptable 30 frames at 1080p
A great example is that using your i7-950 w/ 8GB RAM you can run for honor on medium at 60 Frames 1080p 50 on high and 45 on very high.

RAM Demanding Games
Battlefield 1 is a great example on this game the RAM really comes into play
http://gamesystemrequirements.com/game/battlefield-1

Using your core i7-950 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 6GB RAM at 1080p you can get 30fps on very low settings 25 on low 20 on medium 15 on high and 15 on very high
Using the same setup but increasing RAM to 8GB you can get 35fps on very low and 30 on medium. 25 on high and 20 on very high
Using the same setup but increasing RAM to 12GB you can get 40fps on very low and 35 on medium, 30 high, and 30 very high.
Using the same setup but increasing RAM to 16GB you can get 40fps on very low and 35 on medium, high, and very high.

Using a core i7-970 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 8GB RAM at 1080p you can get 50fps on very low 35 on medium 25 on high and 20 on very high
Using a core i7-970 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 12GB RAM at 1080p you can get 60fps on very low 45 on medium 35 on high and 30 on very high
Using a core i7-970 and a Radeon RX470 (4gb) with 16GB RAM at 1080p you can get 60fps on very low 45 on medium 40 on high and 35 on very high

GPU
If the RX 470 is cheaper get it....and I hate to say this :pfff: (Nvidia Fanboy here :D) even if it is not cheaper get it! The 1050Ti is a sad sad card and should be disowned by Nvidia. the RX... out ...per ...forms ... it. There I said it :(
(sorry Nvidia :( )

RAM
Your motherboard has six 240-pin slots for DDR3 memory
It is technically possible to run a second set with a completely different brand speed and timings and still achieve Triple Channel while keeping your original RAM.

I recommend these
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 1600Mhz (PC3 12800) Model F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL now for $28.50
The picture states it is a 2 pack, and one of the Q&A says it is indeed a 2 pack It is also "New" (The low price seems shady, but you could always buy the $1 2year warranty or simply return it if it isn't as advertised lol...
https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL-Ripjaws-Desktop-Memory/dp/B002X578SM
On Newegg a 2 pack of these cost $58.99
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

Eventually to complete the 18GB and have your second tri-channel grouping you will want to get a single identical RAM stick. You could buy the same product for $28.50 and end up with and extra RAM stick or get a single stick for $28.99 on NewEgg https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231313

to install the RAM on your specific motherboard I would leave the RAM you ave now in slots 1,3 and, 5 (the green ones)
then place the 2 new sticks in slots 2 and 4 (the first 2 black ones in the diagram) this should maintain your current tri channel and place the 2 new ones into dual channel or single channel. When you get the final stick place it in the remaining slot 6 (the final balck one). Now you should have both sets running on Tri-Channel.

if it somehow fails follow the guidelines from you motherboard's manual below. (honestly the guidelines below don't make sense for the use of Six DIMMs unless all 6 are identical)

 One DIMM: If using 1 DIMM (Single Channel), install into: DIMM slot 1.
 Two or Four DIMMs: If using 2 DIMMs (Dual Channel), install into: DIMM
slots 1 and 3. If using 4 DIMMs (Dual Channel), install into: DIMM slots 2, 1,
4, and 3.
 Three DIMMs: If using 3 DIMMs (Triple Channel), install into: DIMM slots 1,
3 and 5.
 Six DIMMs: If using more than 4 DIMMs, use: DIMM slots 2, 1, 4, and 3 then
proceed to occupy the following DIMM slots in this order: 5 and 6.
vmvwao.png


This took forever.... sorry if I forgot anything. i'll double check it tomorrow.
 

LC2017

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Feb 18, 2017
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Thank you so much for taking the time to give such an in-depth and helpful response, ScreamSilence! Can't tell you how much I appreciate it! Given my limited budget right now, it looks like I'll be able to get a new video card and possibly some RAM. That ASUS monitor looks great, and I plan on getting it in the very near future - woot!

VIDEO CARD:
If I could find an Nvidia video card in the same performance/price range, I'd get it in heartbeat! I've been checking out the various RX 470s, and here's where I'm at currently with choices (again, advice appreciated!):

1. The least expensive RX 470-4GB I can find atm is the ASUS-ROG Strix: https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-STRIX-Radeon-Graphics-STRIX-RX470-O4G-GAMING/dp/B01JS2UFDM/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1487953603&sr=1-2&keywords=rx+470

I see the ASUS card being recommended quite often. However, I'm feeling cautious after reading this post regarding it's design: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3221013/rx470-compatibility-system.html

2. For a little more money, I'm considering this MSI-Armor card. (Maybe a "safer" choice than the ASUS card?) https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Radeon-RX-470-ARMOR/dp/B01N3TCNNW/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1487953603&sr=1-1&keywords=rx+470

3. Lastly, to complicate my decision-making even further, this seems to be a nice deal for an RX 480-4GB, MSI-Armor: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137049&cm_re=rx_480-_-14-137-049-_-Product

Decisions, decisions - AHHH! :D But seriously, any other brands to be sure and consider before deciding on one of these?

RAM:
I had read that mixing RAM can be a bit of a gamble and might not work? (Sorry, new to RAM upgrading here!) Looks like the cost of that G.Skill RAM has gone up to $40. It might be wishful thinking, but I'm trying to keep the cost of additional RAM to under $50. An upgrade to 12GB of RAM may be more within my reach. This Corsair RAM comes close cost-wise: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-3x2GB-12800-Desktop-Memory/dp/B002LZ1FPG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487957833&sr=8-1&keywords=6gb+ddr3+triple+channel Maybe I'll have some luck on Ebay? :D

Again, thanks for your time!
 

Firecheetah13

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Come on, I even gave you the math of how to use 14GB in quad channel (3x2GB 1x8GB)

 

ScreamSilence

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His motherboard does not support Quad channel so any further speak about quad channel ram is invalid.....
your math is wrong for quad channel you need multiples of 4 meaning 4 identical sticks in a single set you cant run 3 +1 sticks on quad that would come out to a single tri channel at 3x2Gbs and the 1x8Gb running on single channel. Also lets not hijack the thread it is not about ram.
 

ScreamSilence

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Yes when mixing RAM it is possible for it not to end up accepting the final stick into a tri channel it would instead run it at single channel.
You would still have your original 3 on tri channel the pair on dual channel and the last one if not accepted on single channel. I personally don't think there's anything wrong performance-wise with that even if the last stick got rejected from it's intended tri-channel grouping. What I was aiming for is to have your RAM at or above 16GB

In the end though unless you change your processor then 12GBs is just fine. As for which RX 470 to get I'm sorry I cant help you much I have never owned an AMD card.

I have an asus ROG strix 1070 it cools just fine.

If it's recommended often then I'd say Why not? also it comes pre overclocked and they bin the GPUs for their OC rog strix cards so I say that takes out the hassle on Overclocking it yourself. Although from what I read about this specific card it's OC potential is limited by its 6pin power socket.

I looked over the post that worried you. yeah those hotspots look worrisome. but unless someone has checked the hotspots on an msi armor card I wouldn't know what to say.

This one has an 8pin power socket and because of that it seems to be very well received in the overclocking sites I looked it up on so I am guessing temperatures are not an issue here. Oh and it's cheaper than the strix Ayyyyy :lol: look at that lol! https://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-NITRO-Graphics-11256-10-20G/dp/B01N0MI5PY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488230674&sr=8-1&keywords=nitro+rx+470 that is the stock core version of it though.
the pre OC version is at 196 but I still don't think you need an overclocked card. But if you insist https://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Radeon-backplate-Graphics-11256-01-20G/dp/B01J1M4HA6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1488230674&sr=8-2&keywords=nitro+rx+470

Edit: OH MY ...
that MSI armor OC 470 you linked to ... well don't look now but it seems to have gotten a huge price Cut it also has 8-pins if that's something I made you start wondering about heh https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Radeon-RX-470-ARMOR/dp/B01N3TCNNW/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1487953603&sr=1-1&keywords=rx+470
List Price:[strike]$199.00[/strike]
Price:$169.99 & FREE Shipping.

If you get an RX480 you'll really have to start thinking about bumping up your poor processor XD Unless you can change the processor before 3-4 years Then you'll never really get to cherish the RX 480 on that rig, before it gets outclassed.

In the end an RX470 is an RX 470 is an RX 470 until you overclock it but I don't think you stand to gain from overclocking the GPU if the CPU can't keep up? Although this will differ from game to game. So grab any well reviewed RX470 that makes your wallet happy, hell even get the blower style card.

 
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