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Splendid
Dec 26, 2003
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Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

I just found a game from when I was younger called High Ground by Crown
Tactics at my parent's house. I can't wait to play it again. I have a
renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know any good
computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play? Preferably
Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War. Any help is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 20:21:33 -0400, <a> wrote:

>I just found a game from when I was younger called High Ground by Crown
>Tactics at my parent's house. I can't wait to play it again. I have a
>renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know any good
>computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play? Preferably
>Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War. Any help is greatly
>appreciated.
>Thanks

For Napoleonic or ACW, you can't possibly do better than the Talonsoft
"Battleground" series. One hitch: they might run a bit strangely on an
XP machine. And be sure you download and run the patch files.

-- Steve Lopez
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
news:410473d3.15549767@localhost...
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 20:21:33 -0400, <a> wrote:
>
> >I just found a game from when I was younger called High Ground by Crown
> >Tactics at my parent's house. I can't wait to play it again. I have a
> >renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know any good
> >computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play?
Preferably
> >Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War. Any help is
greatly
> >appreciated.
> >Thanks
>
> For Napoleonic or ACW, you can't possibly do better than the Talonsoft
> "Battleground" series. One hitch: they might run a bit strangely on an
> XP machine. And be sure you download and run the patch files.
>
> -- Steve Lopez

Another hitch; their micromangement makes them an exercise in tedium, more
than enjoyable.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

<a> wrote in message news:41044ea1$0$5628
> renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know any good
> computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play? Preferably
> Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War. Any help is
greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks

HPS has a series in each of those flavors. http://www.hpssims.com/ The
programmer is the same as the Talonsoft games, but the game engine is much
refined. Downside is the 3D graphics in the HPS titles are inferior to the
Talonsoft titles. (However, if you use 2D rather than 3D, it is not really
an issue.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

<a> wrote in message news:41044ea1$0$5628$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> I just found a game from when I was younger called High Ground by Crown
> Tactics at my parent's house. I can't wait to play it again. I have a
> renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know any good
> computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play? Preferably
> Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War. Any help is
greatly
> appreciated.
> Thanks

Well, give the Matrix Games website a visit: http://www.matrixgames.com

There are some Napoleonic titles there.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

<a> wrote in news:41044ea1$0$5628$61fed72c@news.rcn.com:

> I just found a game from when I was younger called High Ground by
> Crown Tactics at my parent's house. I can't wait to play it again. I
> have a renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know
> any good computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet
> play? Preferably Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil
> War. Any help is greatly appreciated.
> Thanks
>
>

Take a look at ShrapnelGames.com
Sounds like the areas they most prefer to publish.

Gandalf Parker
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch-michael@vom.com> wrote in message
news:10gabakf7hbftfc@corp.supernews.com...
>
> <a> wrote in message news:41044ea1$0$5628
> > renewed interest in Hex wargaming as a result. Does anyone know any good
> > computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play?
Preferably
> > Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War. Any help is
> greatly
> > appreciated.
> > Thanks
>
> HPS has a series in each of those flavors. http://www.hpssims.com/ The
> programmer is the same as the Talonsoft games, but the game engine is much
> refined. Downside is the 3D graphics in the HPS titles are inferior to
the
> Talonsoft titles. (However, if you use 2D rather than 3D, it is not
really
> an issue.

The engine hasn't changed much at all from the BG series imo. A Tiller
game is a Tiller game is a........which is fine, if the engine wasn't a
decade old, and showing every bit of its age.

I'd recommend, as others said, the Matrix or Shrapnel games.
>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

"JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WSeNc.184$el3.5187@eagle.america.net...

> > > computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play?
> Preferably
> > > Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War.


> > HPS has a series in each of those flavors. http://www.hpssims.com/

>
> The engine hasn't changed much at all from the BG series imo. A Tiller
> game is a Tiller game is a........which is fine, if the engine wasn't a
> decade old, and showing every bit of its age.
>
> I'd recommend, as others said, the Matrix or Shrapnel games.
> >

Well a single phase per player turn rather than 3 phases per turn makes a
big difference, among other things.

That being said, Matrix, being primarily a World War 2 house (and they have
great WW2 titles), has two Napoleonic titles: Frank Hunter's Campaigns on
the Danube (division/corps level) (which I really like) and the unreleased
(yet long promised) Empires in Arms.

Shrapnel has a variety of games, none specifically Napoleonic, American
Civil War or American War of Independence. They do have Horse N Musket,
Great Battles of the 18th Century includes Brandywine and they also sell a
scenario pack that includes Saratoga. However, the system is being
completely reworked (and has become a much better game based on the demo)
for the upcoming Horse N Musket 2 - Dragoon.

HPS on the other hand has 3 Napoleonic (battalion level) titles and more in
the pipeline I am sure. They also have 1776 (company level) with a boat
load of scenarios on the AWI, as well 2 other games on The War of 1812 and
the French & Indian War in the series. They also have 3 Civil War battles
(also battalion level) with another, Gettysburg, coming next week. Yes
Tiller games have the same basic feel, which one either loves or hates, but
in every title I have played an enormous amount of effort has been made by
the designers to give it a unique feel.

HPS forum http://www.wargame.ch/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=26
Shrapnel forum http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
Matrix Forum (website actually, you need to register for the forum)
http://www.matrixgames.com/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch-michael@vom.com> wrote in message
news:10gb4u8h4n35id0@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:WSeNc.184$el3.5187@eagle.america.net...
>
> > > > computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play?
> > Preferably
> > > > Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War.
>
>
> > > HPS has a series in each of those flavors. http://www.hpssims.com/
>
> >
> > The engine hasn't changed much at all from the BG series imo. A
Tiller
> > game is a Tiller game is a........which is fine, if the engine wasn't a
> > decade old, and showing every bit of its age.
> >
> > I'd recommend, as others said, the Matrix or Shrapnel games.
> > >
>
> Well a single phase per player turn rather than 3 phases per turn makes a
> big difference, among other things.
>
> That being said, Matrix, being primarily a World War 2 house (and they
have
> great WW2 titles), has two Napoleonic titles: Frank Hunter's Campaigns on
> the Danube (division/corps level) (which I really like) and the unreleased
> (yet long promised) Empires in Arms.
>
> Shrapnel has a variety of games, none specifically Napoleonic, American
> Civil War or American War of Independence. They do have Horse N Musket,
> Great Battles of the 18th Century includes Brandywine and they also sell a
> scenario pack that includes Saratoga. However, the system is being
> completely reworked (and has become a much better game based on the demo)
> for the upcoming Horse N Musket 2 - Dragoon.
>
> HPS on the other hand has 3 Napoleonic (battalion level) titles and more
in
> the pipeline I am sure. They also have 1776 (company level) with a boat
> load of scenarios on the AWI, as well 2 other games on The War of 1812 and
> the French & Indian War in the series. They also have 3 Civil War battles
> (also battalion level) with another, Gettysburg, coming next week. Yes
> Tiller games have the same basic feel, which one either loves or hates,
but
> in every title I have played an enormous amount of effort has been made by
> the designers to give it a unique feel.
>
> HPS forum http://www.wargame.ch/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=26
> Shrapnel forum http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
> Matrix Forum (website actually, you need to register for the forum)
> http://www.matrixgames.com/


More phases hardly means a new engine, not even close in fact. Yep, HPS
has three Nappy titles..........and except for graphics, they're the exact
same thing. Same with all the Tiller games via HPS for that matter.

Never seen an iota of difference in feel between any of the HPS or BG
titles myself, imo. All at the wrong scale too for that matter; battalion
level........ah yes, the good 'ole "Grand-Tactical" scale, which ends up
doing neither well.


>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:45:47 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Another hitch; their micromangement makes them an exercise in tedium, more
>than enjoyable.

Depends on your definition of "micromanagement". The original poster
appeared to be looking for games with a hex boardgame "feel" and the
Talonsoft games certainly fit the bill. Personally, I don't find them
tedious in the least but, as always, YMMV.

-- Steve Lopez
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
news:41059c26.1427743@localhost...
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:45:47 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Another hitch; their micromangement makes them an exercise in tedium,
more
> >than enjoyable.
>
> Depends on your definition of "micromanagement". The original poster
> appeared to be looking for games with a hex boardgame "feel" and the
> Talonsoft games certainly fit the bill. Personally, I don't find them
> tedious in the least but, as always, YMMV.
>
> -- Steve Lopez

Managing hundreds of battalion sized units, ala Tiller game, fits the bill
of micromanagement I would think. The only hex boardgame feel similar to
Tiller games would be the old SPI "Campaign in North Africa" <g>

Or any other monster game that never got its campaign/larger scenarios
played because of it dying under its own weight.

A good hex boardgame feel for the Nappy era i.e, would be Matrix's
"Campaign/La Grande Armee" Well chosen scale, playable, enjoyable, etc.

Unless he's looking to spending a couple hours per turn and having
carpatunnel syndrome, then the Tiller games would fit the bill <g>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

"JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news😛HgNc.191$el3.5472@eagle.america.net...
>
> Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch-michael@vom.com> wrote in message
> news:10gb4u8h4n35id0@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:WSeNc.184$el3.5187@eagle.america.net...
> >
> > > > > computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play?
> > > Preferably
> > > > > Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War.
> >
> >
> > > > HPS has a series in each of those flavors. http://www.hpssims.com/
> >

> >
> > Well a single phase per player turn rather than 3 phases per turn makes
a
> > big difference, among other things.
> >
>
>
> More phases hardly means a new engine, not even close in fact. Yep, HPS
> has three Nappy titles..........and except for graphics, they're the exact
> same thing. Same with all the Tiller games via HPS for that matter.
>
> Never seen an iota of difference in feel between any of the HPS or BG
> titles myself, imo. All at the wrong scale too for that matter; battalion
> level........ah yes, the good 'ole "Grand-Tactical" scale, which ends up
> doing neither well.
>

I never said the engine was new, just reworked and refined. I get the
feeling that you don't have any of the Nappy series, as you would know that
the current engine is the one with the single phase. Since you have so
much disdain for the games, I can't imagine you spending cash on more than
one, so I am not sure you are in any place to make commentary on the
differences within the series.

In another post, you compare Tiller to Campaign for North Africa, which for
the El Alamein 42 game, in terms of number of units might just be true.
However, every Tiller game come with plenty of scenarios, ranging from
things involving a dozen or so units per side that might take a half hour to
whole campaigns taking a hundred hours or more. Campaigns do get played,
often multiplayer, and to conclusion.

The original poster asked a simple question, he wanted a recommendation for
a hex based game based in one of three eras. In this case, Tiller games
were a legitimate response as they met all of his criteria. While I can
understand that some people might not find the games to their taste, many
do. However, what I do not understand is the need on usenet by some posters
to bash HPS/Tiller at every opportunity.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch-michael@vom.com> wrote in message
news:10gcqg699ar5h6a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news😛HgNc.191$el3.5472@eagle.america.net...
> >
> > Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch-michael@vom.com> wrote in message
> > news:10gb4u8h4n35id0@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:WSeNc.184$el3.5187@eagle.america.net...
> > >
> > > > > > computer hex war games that are good for solo or internet play?
> > > > Preferably
> > > > > > Napoleanic, American Revolution, or American Civil War.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > HPS has a series in each of those flavors.
http://www.hpssims.com/
> > >
>
> > >
> > > Well a single phase per player turn rather than 3 phases per turn
makes
> a
> > > big difference, among other things.
> > >
> >
> >
> > More phases hardly means a new engine, not even close in fact. Yep,
HPS
> > has three Nappy titles..........and except for graphics, they're the
exact
> > same thing. Same with all the Tiller games via HPS for that matter.
> >
> > Never seen an iota of difference in feel between any of the HPS or BG
> > titles myself, imo. All at the wrong scale too for that matter;
battalion
> > level........ah yes, the good 'ole "Grand-Tactical" scale, which ends up
> > doing neither well.
> >
>
> I never said the engine was new, just reworked and refined. I get the
> feeling that you don't have any of the Nappy series, as you would know
that
> the current engine is the one with the single phase. Since you have so
> much disdain for the games, I can't imagine you spending cash on more than
> one, so I am not sure you are in any place to make commentary on the
> differences within the series.
>
> In another post, you compare Tiller to Campaign for North Africa, which
for
> the El Alamein 42 game, in terms of number of units might just be true.
> However, every Tiller game come with plenty of scenarios, ranging from
> things involving a dozen or so units per side that might take a half hour
to
> whole campaigns taking a hundred hours or more. Campaigns do get played,
> often multiplayer, and to conclusion.
>
> The original poster asked a simple question, he wanted a recommendation
for
> a hex based game based in one of three eras. In this case, Tiller games
> were a legitimate response as they met all of his criteria. While I can
> understand that some people might not find the games to their taste, many
> do. However, what I do not understand is the need on usenet by some
posters
> to bash HPS/Tiller at every opportunity.


<shrug> Its a public ng. And if you're finding HPS getting bashed at
every opportunity, maybe that should tell you something.

And I never said the Tiller games weren't a legitimate response. Just a
poor choice to actually purchase.

p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely long
before you even heard of them.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

"JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3BzNc.245$el3.6902@eagle.america.net...
>
> <shrug> Its a public ng. And if you're finding HPS getting bashed at
> every opportunity, maybe that should tell you something.

It is bashed repeatedly by a small group of posters (including you) at
c.s.i.p.g.w-h any chance they can, even if it means hijacking another game's
thread.

> And I never said the Tiller games weren't a legitimate response. Just a
> poor choice to actually purchase.
>
> p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely long
> before you even heard of them.
>
You seem oddly compelled to purchase "everything HPS ever put out" when you
don't like the games. As for the last bit - while I doubt it, I don't get
the relevance of when you or I first played/heard of a HPS title/Tiller
game.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch-michael@vom.com> wrote in message
news:10gdp0feltsrq0c@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3BzNc.245$el3.6902@eagle.america.net...
> >
> > <shrug> Its a public ng. And if you're finding HPS getting bashed at
> > every opportunity, maybe that should tell you something.
>
> It is bashed repeatedly by a small group of posters (including you) at
> c.s.i.p.g.w-h any chance they can, even if it means hijacking another
game's
> thread.


Funny. Ever since the TS lackeys went over to HPS, it seems the TS
attitude followed. You know the one right ? "Let no one dissent with our
opinion" And while you're at it, point out a hijacked thread for me.

As long as there's public forums, deal with it.


>
> > And I never said the Tiller games weren't a legitimate response. Just
a
> > poor choice to actually purchase.
> >
> > p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely long
> > before you even heard of them.
> >
> You seem oddly compelled to purchase "everything HPS ever put out" when
you
> don't like the games. As for the last bit - while I doubt it, I don't get
> the relevance of when you or I first played/heard of a HPS title/Tiller
> game.


Wrong. I bought a few of the first HPS/Tiller games. Haven't bothered
with an HPS title since.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:44:20 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

First you wrote:

>> > p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely long
>> > before you even heard of them.
>> >

Then you wrote:

> Wrong. I bought a few of the first HPS/Tiller games. Haven't bothered
>with an HPS title since.

Which is it? "Almost everything" or "a few"? Take your time -- we'll
wait patiently to allow you the opportunity to remove your proverbial
foot from your mouth.

-- Steve Lopez
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
news:4107686a.7184823@localhost...
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:44:20 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> First you wrote:
>
> >> > p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely
long
> >> > before you even heard of them.
> >> >
>
> Then you wrote:
>
> > Wrong. I bought a few of the first HPS/Tiller games. Haven't bothered
> >with an HPS title since.
>
> Which is it? "Almost everything" or "a few"? Take your time -- we'll
> wait patiently to allow you the opportunity to remove your proverbial
> foot from your mouth.
>
> -- Steve Lopez

Note for the hard to comprehend: "almost everything *HPS* ever put
out......"

and THEN, "a few of the first Hps/*TILLER* (as in when Tiller joined HPS)
games...."

That should be clear enough for even you, that its two different subjects.
Maybe this will help ? One statement was pre-Hps/Tiller, and the other is
post.

Or I guess you too are one of those that think life with HPS began with
Tiller ? Seeing as basic language comprehension is a challenge for you,
could be eh ?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:25:52 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
>news:4107686a.7184823@localhost...
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:44:20 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> First you wrote:
>>
>> >> > p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely
>long
>> >> > before you even heard of them.
>> >> >
>>
>> Then you wrote:
>>
>> > Wrong. I bought a few of the first HPS/Tiller games. Haven't bothered
>> >with an HPS title since.
>>
>> Which is it? "Almost everything" or "a few"? Take your time -- we'll
>> wait patiently to allow you the opportunity to remove your proverbial
>> foot from your mouth.
>>
>> -- Steve Lopez
>
> Note for the hard to comprehend: "almost everything *HPS* ever put
>out......"
>
> and THEN, "a few of the first Hps/*TILLER* (as in when Tiller joined HPS)
>games...."
>
> That should be clear enough for even you, that its two different subjects.
>Maybe this will help ? One statement was pre-Hps/Tiller, and the other is
>post.
>
> Or I guess you too are one of those that think life with HPS began with
>Tiller ? Seeing as basic language comprehension is a challenge for you,
>could be eh ?

So Tiller games are in the HPS minority? Or are you equally flexible
with your definitions of English words such as "minority"? What
constitutes a "minority"? Just wondering...

If you want to be comprehended, learn to write in a comprehendable
manner. Given what I've seen of your writing so far, I'd settle for a
hackneyed manner from you, but I doubt that's within your limited
capacity.

So, before you start whining again, let's cut to the chase -- and I'll
make this as clear as possible: talk to people like you're some kind
of dickhead and be talked to like you're a dickhead. But for God's
sake, stop whining. It's a public newsgroup (as you keep repeating),
so take what you get. And like it.

-- Steve Lopez
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
news:4108572f.5188786@localhost...
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:25:52 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
> >news:4107686a.7184823@localhost...
> >> On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 18:44:20 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> First you wrote:
> >>
> >> >> > p.s. I've bought almost everything HPS ever put out, most likely
> >long
> >> >> > before you even heard of them.
> >> >> >
> >>
> >> Then you wrote:
> >>
> >> > Wrong. I bought a few of the first HPS/Tiller games. Haven't
bothered
> >> >with an HPS title since.
> >>
> >> Which is it? "Almost everything" or "a few"? Take your time -- we'll
> >> wait patiently to allow you the opportunity to remove your proverbial
> >> foot from your mouth.
> >>
> >> -- Steve Lopez
> >
> > Note for the hard to comprehend: "almost everything *HPS* ever put
> >out......"
> >
> > and THEN, "a few of the first Hps/*TILLER* (as in when Tiller joined
HPS)
> >games...."
> >
> > That should be clear enough for even you, that its two different
subjects.
> >Maybe this will help ? One statement was pre-Hps/Tiller, and the other
is
> >post.
> >
> > Or I guess you too are one of those that think life with HPS began with
> >Tiller ? Seeing as basic language comprehension is a challenge for you,
> >could be eh ?
>
> So Tiller games are in the HPS minority? Or are you equally flexible
> with your definitions of English words such as "minority"? What
> constitutes a "minority"? Just wondering...
>
> If you want to be comprehended, learn to write in a comprehendable
> manner. Given what I've seen of your writing so far, I'd settle for a
> hackneyed manner from you, but I doubt that's within your limited
> capacity.
>
> So, before you start whining again, let's cut to the chase -- and I'll
> make this as clear as possible: talk to people like you're some kind
> of dickhead and be talked to like you're a dickhead. But for God's
> sake, stop whining. It's a public newsgroup (as you keep repeating),
> so take what you get. And like it.
>
> -- Steve Lopez


LOL ! And its ME, thats whining, right ? You're a hoot.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:06:49 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

> LOL ! And its ME, thats whining, right ?

You're a fence-jumper, contentious as hell, and a prevaricator. And
you try (unsuccessfully) to cover it by attacking those who point it
out.

>You're a hoot.

Beats being a garden-variety troller.

-- Steve Lopez
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.wargames (More info?)

pulgao <baayszhore@md.net> wrote in message
news:41097abf.2338423@localhost...
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:06:49 -0500, "JP" <jp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > LOL ! And its ME, thats whining, right ?
>
> You're a fence-jumper, contentious as hell, and a prevaricator. And
> you try (unsuccessfully) to cover it by attacking those who point it
> out.
>
> >You're a hoot.
>
> Beats being a garden-variety troller.
>
> -- Steve Lopez


Ah, the age old, "I don't like his opinion, so time to call him a troll"
line. Wondered when it would show up.
 
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