Kelledin
Distinguished
- Mar 1, 2001
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1) Most of the stuff Intel publishes regarding developer optimization for their CPUs applies similarly to the Athlon. For pretty much every other piece of CPU info Intel publishes, AMD publishes the same info about theirs.
2) Intel manufactures many, many more chipsets. Many of those 100's of PDFs are for obsolete products (Intel's euphimism for "obsolete" is "mature" btw...LoL).
3) Head over to <A HREF="http://www.x86-64.org" target="_new">http://www.x86-64.org</A> and get all the info about Hammer you might want.
Kelledin
"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
2) Intel manufactures many, many more chipsets. Many of those 100's of PDFs are for obsolete products (Intel's euphimism for "obsolete" is "mature" btw...LoL).
3) Head over to <A HREF="http://www.x86-64.org" target="_new">http://www.x86-64.org</A> and get all the info about Hammer you might want.
Kelledin
"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
I's rather say it looks different.. very very different.
And frankly, I think AMD's approach is the smartest one. It may be 5 or 10 years before mainstream apps and systems require true 64 bit architectures. During this transition period, AMD will offer something that runs current code fast, and support these very few apps that require 64 bit (as far as I can see, 64 bit addressing mostly. Like I posted in the tread "64 bit question"). They can use the same architecture on the desktops, workstations and servers.
Intel on the other side, may be working on a long term strategy with IA-64, and Im sure it will find niche markets over the next years (it actually seems to perform quite well on a few very specific apps), but I do not see it replace x86 over the next five to ten years. I think it is an illusion to think 32 bit apps will have faded out by then, much as 16 bit code was still used in the time of the Pentium Pro. Also consider moving from 16 to 32 bit x86 was way much easier than migrate from x86 to IA64. It also gave some additional advantages (multithreading, true protected memory, ..) that IA64 doesnt. Add the fact that 99% of the apps dont require 64 bit today or tomorrow, and I think its safe to say 32 bit is here to stay quite a few years.
This being said, Im sure there will be cases were IA64 makes sense, even in the near future. We'll just have to see how well for instance 64 bit windows with a 64 bit SQL server and/or IIS etc perform. If it performs well, we might see some heavy duty Itanium servers, but thats still something totally different from establishing an industry standard architecture.
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
And frankly, I think AMD's approach is the smartest one. It may be 5 or 10 years before mainstream apps and systems require true 64 bit architectures. During this transition period, AMD will offer something that runs current code fast, and support these very few apps that require 64 bit (as far as I can see, 64 bit addressing mostly. Like I posted in the tread "64 bit question"). They can use the same architecture on the desktops, workstations and servers.
Intel on the other side, may be working on a long term strategy with IA-64, and Im sure it will find niche markets over the next years (it actually seems to perform quite well on a few very specific apps), but I do not see it replace x86 over the next five to ten years. I think it is an illusion to think 32 bit apps will have faded out by then, much as 16 bit code was still used in the time of the Pentium Pro. Also consider moving from 16 to 32 bit x86 was way much easier than migrate from x86 to IA64. It also gave some additional advantages (multithreading, true protected memory, ..) that IA64 doesnt. Add the fact that 99% of the apps dont require 64 bit today or tomorrow, and I think its safe to say 32 bit is here to stay quite a few years.
This being said, Im sure there will be cases were IA64 makes sense, even in the near future. We'll just have to see how well for instance 64 bit windows with a 64 bit SQL server and/or IIS etc perform. If it performs well, we might see some heavy duty Itanium servers, but thats still something totally different from establishing an industry standard architecture.
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
Holy crap, now we're gonna fight over which company has the best .pdf files? "Forget performance, I buy Intel because I like their WEBSITE DOCUMENTATION!" Is this silly, or am I just not getting it? What's next, Intel has a better color scheme than AMD?
Heh I guess these people can speak on behalf of me.
Thanks guys =)
--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
Thanks guys =)
--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
even if they do..
Intel is uing DDR soon...
what happened to magical rambus??
--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
Intel is uing DDR soon...
what happened to magical rambus??
--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--
died off... Cuz i wanted it to die. Well i would QDR-SDRAM be introduce with the P4 later on in time.
Also this:
Well i would like to benchmarks between IA64 and x86-64. So far we know IA64 is faster then the Sparc3 and Alpha. IA64 design is very complex. For some reason in the AMD PDF it say alot that x86-64 address at 48-bit not IA64's pure 64-bit. One reason in the future AMD will switch to IA64.
Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy
Also this:
Well i would like to benchmarks between IA64 and x86-64. So far we know IA64 is faster then the Sparc3 and Alpha. IA64 design is very complex. For some reason in the AMD PDF it say alot that x86-64 address at 48-bit not IA64's pure 64-bit. One reason in the future AMD will switch to IA64.
Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie....
Yummy Maybe AMD will just say f-it and go with 128bit LOL....Now
that would be funny! I'll buy the 128bit software and just skip 64 all together....or maybe 256bit??? what the hec!
I'm going to replace all my software why stop at a measly 64bit?
J/K yall...
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
that would be funny! I'll buy the 128bit software and just skip 64 all together....or maybe 256bit??? what the hec!
I'm going to replace all my software why stop at a measly 64bit?
J/K yall...
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
"well i would like to benchmarks between IA64 and x86-64. "
Would be about as tricky as benchmarking Macs to Pc to Ultra Sparcs. They dont have anything in common. (okay, maybe an OS one day..)
"So far we know IA64 is faster then the Sparc3 and Alpha"
Oh do we ? We know its faster in two benchmarks (I suppose you are referring to the SSL test and the SPECfp results?). And even then the SSL benchmark is quite strange as it compares totally different software implementations. Not saying the result of the Itanium wasnt impressive, but given the nature of VLIW I'm sure some types of software would benefit much from it.. SSL decoding being one of them aparantly.
"One reason in the future AMD will switch to IA64."
You're forgetting something important. IA64 is a completely new architecture. It has nothing in common with x86, and even differs very much from Sparc and the like in 64 bit arena because of its VLIW core. Wether VLIW is viable remains to be seen. If I remember correct, HP tried it many years ago..
Also, having a new architecture isnt necesarely bad.. but you need software support for it. Especially for IA64 since it so reliant upon compiler optimizations. IA64 isnt going to be worth dime if there is no software to take advantage of it. Quick ports from to x86 to IA64 may actually show an impressive performance decrease if there are not ported well.
X86-64 on the other hand, will have a huge installed base of software when it comes out.. Since any x86 application will run on it, and run fast. This may translate into a considerable installed base of x86-64, even when the -64 would not be used for most apps.. Then, given the fact its much easier to port to x86-64 for those few apps that need it, will give AMD a huge window of opportunity.
IA64 is going up against UltraSparc, Alpha and the like. Not an easy task. x86-64 will be a natural extension of the existing x86 architecture. If it competes well on 32 bit apps, it will have a much easier market acceptance. It will not be competing with IA64 for a while.. it will rather attack the market from below. Much like intel did with their first Xeon servers.
We will more when Mc Kinley comes out, but when rumours are true the VLIW architecture would be very hard to scale beyond 1.5 - 2 Ghz, we might be in for a suprise over the next years.
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
Would be about as tricky as benchmarking Macs to Pc to Ultra Sparcs. They dont have anything in common. (okay, maybe an OS one day..)
"So far we know IA64 is faster then the Sparc3 and Alpha"
Oh do we ? We know its faster in two benchmarks (I suppose you are referring to the SSL test and the SPECfp results?). And even then the SSL benchmark is quite strange as it compares totally different software implementations. Not saying the result of the Itanium wasnt impressive, but given the nature of VLIW I'm sure some types of software would benefit much from it.. SSL decoding being one of them aparantly.
"One reason in the future AMD will switch to IA64."
You're forgetting something important. IA64 is a completely new architecture. It has nothing in common with x86, and even differs very much from Sparc and the like in 64 bit arena because of its VLIW core. Wether VLIW is viable remains to be seen. If I remember correct, HP tried it many years ago..
Also, having a new architecture isnt necesarely bad.. but you need software support for it. Especially for IA64 since it so reliant upon compiler optimizations. IA64 isnt going to be worth dime if there is no software to take advantage of it. Quick ports from to x86 to IA64 may actually show an impressive performance decrease if there are not ported well.
X86-64 on the other hand, will have a huge installed base of software when it comes out.. Since any x86 application will run on it, and run fast. This may translate into a considerable installed base of x86-64, even when the -64 would not be used for most apps.. Then, given the fact its much easier to port to x86-64 for those few apps that need it, will give AMD a huge window of opportunity.
IA64 is going up against UltraSparc, Alpha and the like. Not an easy task. x86-64 will be a natural extension of the existing x86 architecture. If it competes well on 32 bit apps, it will have a much easier market acceptance. It will not be competing with IA64 for a while.. it will rather attack the market from below. Much like intel did with their first Xeon servers.
We will more when Mc Kinley comes out, but when rumours are true the VLIW architecture would be very hard to scale beyond 1.5 - 2 Ghz, we might be in for a suprise over the next years.
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
God damnit rcf.. stop changing your posts all the time.. I keep on replying to posts that no longer exist ! LOL
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
To answer your question:
"Will AMD make a IA64 Processor over time?"
Maybe.. if IA64 really takes of, they might one day.. *if* intel licences IA64 to AMD (acutally, would be a good move by intel to gain more momentum for IA64...)
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
"Will AMD make a IA64 Processor over time?"
Maybe.. if IA64 really takes of, they might one day.. *if* intel licences IA64 to AMD (acutally, would be a good move by intel to gain more momentum for IA64...)
---- Owner of the only Dell computer with a AMD chip
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