HIS X1950 PRO AGP: To risk it or not

[Slava]

With all the scary posts about the X1950 PRO AGP, I am not sure whether to risk getting one or not. By the looks of it there is a huge batch of faulty digital voltage regulators which are used in the boards made by just about every company. Sapphire, Powercolor, Diamond, Visiontek - all have been reported to make non-working X1950 PRO AGPs. The most common symptoms are system lockup or crash to blank screen/standby mode and no video signal after installing the card

After you vote, please post your opinions. If you think buying this card is worth the risk, then why? Are there any indications that the bad batch of cards will be recalled and replaced by a batch of good ones? Or what?

EDIT 1: I have heard all the reasons in favor of moving on to PCI-Express and I decided to stay with AGP for now. Please vote on the poll question assuming that AGP is the only way to go for me. If interested, you will find my own reasons in favor of staying with AGP further in this thread.

EDIT 2 (sorry, forgot to post current specs in the original poll):

My current system:
Antec True550 550W PSU
Abit IS7
P4 Northwood 3.0 GHz with HT
2 Gb of PC3200 Dual Channel
eVGA GeForce 6800 Ultra AGP
Seagate Barracuda x2 (7200 RPM, SATA)

IMPORTANT BIT OF NEWS:

If I could vote again, I would vote "Yes, it is worth it because there seems to be no risk after all". Why? Because I've read an arcticle which explains the most likely cause of those no signal / crash to blank screen reports.

Many people have had varuius problems with X19xx series of cards where they would get no signal or see their PCs lock up/crash into a blank screen.

Well I've just read this about Sapphire's Radeon X1950 Pro AGP on Firingsquad and thought everyone should keep this in mind when troubleshooting such problems:

Fortunately as we mentioned earlier, you can daisy chain your VGA power connection, allowing you to piggyback off the power cable(s) you already use for your optical or hard disk drives, but you can’t run both Molex connectors off the same power cable.

Sapphire could have eased end user's pain by including dual power adapters inside the card’s packaging, but unfortunately only one adapter is provided. Sapphire also should have spelled this out more explicitly on the card’s packaging and inside the manual. We honestly wouldn't be surprised if quite a few perfectly good cards end up getting returned because end users didn't know this.

To clarify, since you need 30 amps to feed this card and most PSUs have less than 30 amps per one +12V rail you do need to connect two independent +12V cables to this card even if one of the cables feeds your optical drives and such...

I am gonna throw the above into every recent thread complaining about "No signal" problems. Hopefully, this will save some people some headaches.

 

[pmr]

Instead of naming the capacitators as the guilty ones, I'd say the problems are psu related.
The average AGP gamer never felt the need of a beefy power supply, and now that they need one, they forgot to buy it. The x1950 pro is a little power hungry.
Just my 2 cents

 

[Slava]

I'd say the problems are psu related

People with good PSUs (550-650W) reported the problems... You are not saying that a 1 KW PSU is needed. Are you? (Yes, yes, I know that not all 12V rails are created equal). Still...

 

[haftarun8]

agreed. My friend bought one recently (pci-e version) and had to make a major psu upgrade. Even though he has the pci-e version, anyone upgrading from the x700 or x800 series or earlier will have to remember to do that. He got a 500w with enough amps on the 12v rail, so everything works like a charm now

 

[blade85]

I personally think its a heating issue tbh.

reason: My psu is a Tagan 380 watt psu with 22 amps on the 12V rail. Yet for the last month i have never had a single issue with my card at all (sapphire x1950 pro agp 512mb) Infact i have nothing but praise for this card.

My fan is running at a measly 40% and i cant hear it yet my gpu's temp barely reaches 50. Only after playing games like oblivion and rainbow 6 vegas for a good few hours does the temp come any where close to 70. Even then the fan runs at 40-45%. Its only when the gpu hits 75 does the fan speed starts to increase to about 50-60% to keep it at 75 or lower, even then it isnt that loud.

The only time my card hit 80 was when i was testing it for artifacts using ati tool.



soooo...i think its really a heating issue and really bad batch of cards have been made. I was lucky enough to get a good one.

Just my two cents or two pence since im in uk

 

[prozac26]

I would say no.

Main reason is AGP. I wouldn't spend money on an AGP system

However, if you do want to spend the money, I would go for it.

 

[Anoobis]

I partially agree with prozac26 on this but before I cast a vote, you need to post the system specs of the machine the card is going in. Including the existing card. IIRC, you're GF also has a system too. Are you entertaining ideas of passing on older equipment to her system?

 

[harty23690]

I wouldnt bother with it. Itll be time to upgrade again soon.

 

[prozac26]

Itll be time to upgrade again soon.

There is always "time to upgrade again soon"

There's always something new coming, so you can't necessarily wait.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

This is like the GF7900gTX and eVGA GF7900GT issues, there were a fair amount reported, and it should be considered, but only if there is an equal competitor out there.

If it was the initial GF7800 series that experienced that then you wouldn't care if you want the best. Same it this situation, if for some reason you NEED a new AGP card and for another reason you cannot upgrade to PCIe, the get an X1950Pro, HOWEVER make sure you have an easy return policy and bring up this issue during the time of purchase so you can get an explicit note of that need should you have to return it.

Personally I still say AGP is almost always the wrong choice, but if you must, and the difference between the GF7600GT / X1650XT and the X1950Pro aren't large, then sure it's worth the risk, but just don't be silly like one of the posts here I read, and expect it to work with a swap out of a previous card, be sure to clean out the F'in old drivers first.

Right now if the GF8800GTS were to have the same early growing pains I'd still recommend it, but I'd also recommend a company you can trust to replace or upgrade, which really wouldn't change my eVGA GTS recommendation for PCIe.

I think it's a question of risk/reward, if you really want to make your dollar worthwhile I think it's 1 of the 2 best paths, but of course it's a little riskier than the GT/XT path, but likely last longer too.

PS, to me this isn't as bad as the R9800Pro-256DDR2 which had little/no benefit and mainly risk, that was an easy option to miss, this might be harder for some people.

 

[Slava]

your GF also has a system too. Are you entertaining ideas of passing on older equipment to her system?

Yeah, she has a gaming PC (used for World of Warcraft mainly) but I just got her a X850PRO a couple of months ago. I see no good reason to pass my 6800U on, cuz her card is comparable. I will either keep the Ultra for my VGA hall of fame *grin* (because I just love this card) or e-Bay it.

My logic for staying with AGP a while longer is still the same as it was 2 months ago: It will be some time before R600 is around. No real need for an uber card just yet anyway, not until Vista/drivers are stable and DX10 titles become abundant.

Gaming performance of my PC with a *working* X1950 PRO AGP (especially if it is the HIS Turbo version – thanks to GW for the hint) will double. (I've seen reports that 3DMark 05 scores went from 5,000 to up to 10,000 marks on PCs comparable to mine after upgrading to HIS X1950 PRO AGP)

I think that by mid-summer 2007 we will be presented with the second iteration of current 8800s and upcoming R600s and I think C2D prices may go down. It is also possible that newer, badder motherboards and RAM may be available.

For now my PC serves most of my gaming and work-related needs. It is my hope that by sticking a X1950 PRO AGP into it will allow me to enjoy Crysis and some other upcoming titles and wait until it is time for me to build a seriously uber next gen PC in the summer time.

just don't be silly like one of the posts here I read, and expect it to work with a swap out of a previous card, be sure to clean out the F'in old drivers first.

:lol: Of course! I might even do a clean install of XP for good measure - I have not done this in 3 years. Good to hear from you again Grape, by the way ..

 

[Slava]

Mm-kay.. I would appreciate a few more votes and a few more thoughts, so

BUMP

 

[Anoobis]

I'd say wait for Crysis to be released later this year. That H.I.S. card is running almost $300 right now. There's nothing to say that the price is going to go down right away. The prices on the AGP 7600GT haven't dropped since it's release. It was ditto on the 7800GS until the X1950Pro came out. Then again if your system works good for you right now, the risks of waiting for a possible price drop are better than buying now due to the risk of a price increase or bad product availability. In other words, I don't see the card going anywhere right now, so it should still be there either at the same price, or hopefully at a lower price, when Crysis arrives later this year. Keep your eye on it though. You might find a good deal with a MIR that would make it a good value. You could also run into a good deal on a PCI-E setup between now and Crysis.

 

[wimcle]

buy them (agp), in a year dump them on ebay for what you paid for them!

The supply is contrained, but there are a zillion AGP motherboards out there with 3+Ghz procs that are 'good enough' for all but hard-core gamers.

 

[Slava]

buy them (agp), in a year dump them on ebay for what you paid for them!

The supply is contrained, but there are a zillion AGP motherboards out there with 3+Ghz procs that are 'good enough' for all but hard-core gamers.

Interesting thought. Anyone care to comment on this pelase?

 

[blade85]

dunno if they will still be worth as much on ebay in a years time, but i sold my xfx 7800 gs extreme for the same price i bought it for after using it for 5 months :lol: . Perhaps i just got lucky

 

[Talon]

I'll say yes. If you want to upgrade an AGP system and breath some life into it its the best right now for that interface.

I wish I'd waited a few more days before ordering the Sapphire card i just got because I'd have been willing to spend a few more $ on the HIS card.

Overall I feel a lot of the card problems have been power issues, maybe not all but a lot of them sure sound like the right symtoms.

I bought mine to pep up my setup for a bit longer so I don't feel like I have to upgrade right now. I had collected a few "new build" parts but the wife and I blew out the wallet so badly on the kids for Xmas this year that I decided to wait on My "new toy" for later this year

I am using a OCZ 700w GamerXstream btw not the Antec 400w listed in my sig. Need to update that I guess.

 

[enforcerfx]

I would stick with getting the X1950pro. If you get a good bang-for-your-buck on it, then by all means go with it. The Powercolor version on newegg with the Accelero X2 cooler is going for 240, which is a hell of a bargain I think. Just because some people got bad luck with their X1950's does not mean you will. Even though the ordeal of RMAing a card can be tough, in the end as long as you are satisfied with your product, then by all means enjoy it.

 

[muffin]

I picked up an HIS 1950 pro PCI-e for a friend for $280 CDN and was very impressed, and got myself an ATI 1950 pro AGP and an ATI 1950 pro PCI-e for $200 CDN each on boxing day (didn't have the heart to tell him what I paid, however) and both are great. Very good upgrade from my 6800GT AGP, and well worth the money, though I did upgrade to a 700W Enermax True Power 2 because it was a good deal also. No issues at all, other than ATITool doesn't know how to OC them. Both are quiet, no signs of any heating or other problems, and now I have 2 comparable machines so kids can play and not fight over who gets which machine, which was worth the money alone. I still have 17" monitors (3) so detail settings can be cranked to the max. Didn't know there were issues, maybe I'm lucky, or as has been mentioned, perhaps it is mostly a clean, adequate power problem.

 

[Slava]

now I have 2 comparable machines

I understand you have two PCs one using X1950 PRO AGP and the other - X1950 PRO PCI-E.

Could you post exact specs for both machines and some benchmarks, such as 3DMark 05 score achieved at the default settings (1024x768, no AA, no AF)?

Download 3DMark05 Basic Edition (Free) here.

This would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Broosta]

I just bought a HIS x1950 pro turbo agp 256mb for £136 to replace my old AIW 9800SE. I need to stay AGP cos I use my pc for music and PCIE sucks when doing music, well on AMD at least.

I have an Antec 430 PSU and it runs no problem.

My 3dMark06 score went from 445 to 4523.

Get one .

Cheers,
Broosta.

My system:-
Case - Antec P150
Mobo - Asus A8v deluxe
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 (socket 939)
Memory - 2GB DDR PC3200
Sound card - E-MU 1820M
Speakers - Logitech Z-5500 + Fostex PM1 active monitors
Graphics card - HIS X1950 Pro AGP 256MB IceQ3 Turbo

 

[Slava]

My 3dMark06 score went from 445 to 4523

Dude! LOL.. that's like 10 times better, hilarious. Well, to be honest, the 3DMark06 score does not tell me much. Could you post your current 3DMark05 score with your new HIS X1950 PRO AGP please?

EDIT: Okay, my current 3DMark06 score is 2490. I suppose HIS X1950 PRO AGP might double it.

 

[barathum]

I've got the GeCube x1950 pro agp for 3+ weeks now with no prob at all. Gecube has 2 years warranty and 1 to 1 replacement policy, quite neat imo.

My system: AXP 3000+, 2x256Mb DDR333, GA7N400Pro2, SB Live! 5.1, Enlight 400w.

One thing that scares me is my PSU, i dont think its strong enough to handle x1950p, however i haven't got any probs whatsoever until now, and my psu is 2 years old by now

 

[NI_DCLXVI]

Long Time reader, first time poster.

I have some info for you guys looking for x1950pro AGP benchmarks on games.

First my setup:

P4 Northwood 3.0GHz Oc'ed to 3.75GHz
DDR 3500 4 x 512 MB (ddr3200 oc'ed)
Asus P4C800-E Deluxe
HIS x1950pro 512 (621/750) AGP

here is fraps:

2007-01-18 11:06:35 - R6Vegas_Game 1024x768 all settings maximum
Frames: 59625 - Time: 1735939ms - Avg: 34.347 - Min: 0 - Max: 75

2007-01-18 16:18:01 - nwn2main 1280x1024 all settings max apart from shadows which are on lowFrames: 146874 - Time: 3794546ms - Avg: 38.706 - Min: 0 - Max: 78

2007-01-18 17:23:52 - BF2142 1024 x 768 4xaa 16xaf all settings max
Frames: 199 - Time: 2666ms - Avg:74.643- Min: 72 - Max: 76

2007-01-18 17:23:58 - BF2142 TITAN MODE 1024 x 768 4xaa 16xaf all settings maxFrames: 3964 - Time: 58957ms - Avg: 67.235 - Min: 1 - Max: 78

2007-01-18 22:23:48 - DarkCrusade 1280 x 1024 8player max settings
Frames: 80 - Time: 1211ms - Avg: 66.061 - Min: 66 - Max: 66

2007-01-18 22:23:51 - DarkCrusade online 6 players online 1280 x 1024 max settings, online syncs frames with slowest players PCFrames: 113607 - Time: 3886767ms - Avg: 29.229 - Min: 0 - Max: 78


I replaced my BFG 6800gt oc'ed to 410/1150 and saw massive improvements, NWN 2 went from unplayable to silky smooth and Call of Duty 2 I can now run at 1280x1024 4xaa 8xaf all settings on max and smoke blend set to "everything" and it is a constant 45-75 FPS, from game start to finish!!!

Also Oblivion is Remarkable with this card, it was obviously designed to make optimum use of the ring bus architecture, I play with all settings on max (draw distance,grass,tres etc) and outdoors at 1280x1024 with HDR I get an average of 45FPS, I was overjoyed! So Tamriel is getting a revisit now!

I highly recommend this card if you have a "decent" AGP platform, I saw a 10% drop in FPS when I turned off my Overclock on the CPU!

just my 2 pence!

I got mine from www.overclockers.co.uk, click on the card for my review there too!

Compared to buying a PCI-express mobo, cpu, gpu and the required RAM, I get the performance of a PCI-e 1900xt with HDCP for a 3rd of the price and "oh look" PCI-Express 2.0 is defined now and "oct+" cores will be out by the end of the year, get a 1950 pro, we have let the early adopters pay for us to get this far, PCI-E has finished it's teething period (problems and price) just in time to be made redundant, no games make use of dual core to any tangible degree as developers are just getting the tools to develop for them, and with this card you turn your PC into a xbox 360 equivalent (Oblivion looks BETTER in 1280x 1024 2xaa 45-100 FPS than in 1280x720 15-30 FPS on a xbox 360 PLUS YOU CAN USE A MOUSE AND KEYBOARD!!)

End of the year I will have a top media centre PC that will play all games fine at 1280x1024 or lower and jump over the PCI-E stop gap (inevitable really) and get blistering performance again at the best bang for buck when I build a system Jan 08 when they might have just ironed out all the Vista DX10 driver issues and hardware incompatabilities!!

Regards,

Happy x1950pro'er

 

[Slava]

I get the performance of a PCI-e 1900xt with HDCP for a 3rd of the price

I am with you, man.

What are your 3DMark scores?