HL2 Dev's oppinion on Nvidia's performance

GeneticWeapon

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The B3D Tomb Raider benchmark is causing quite a stir on the web. On the Half Life forums, a guy asked one of the game developers what his thoughts were about B3D's findings....
<A HREF="http://hl2.burstfire.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1298&perpage=15&pagenumber=17" target="_new">http://hl2.burstfire.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1298&perpage=15&pagenumber=17</A>
You know Nvidia's in trouble when when you see stuff like this:)

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lhgpoobaa

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Definately worrying.
The next few months will be interesting to see when new DX9 titles come out... see how well people can implement DX9 wihout hideous perforamnce loss.

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coolsquirtle

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ATi gets Gainward on their side, and off i go to ATi~~ lolz

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ufo_warviper

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I'm worrying to death too. I just purchased 3 Nvidia Ti 4200 cards for $80 apeice hoping that we can at least run the game on Medium Quality. If we can't then we just wasted our money. I am Glad I only opened and installed one of the boards (I received the boards the same day that Sargeduck posted the Tombraider performance analysis thread), so I halted progress altogether and I am waiting in suspense until I figure out what I should do. Do you think the Ti 4200 can run HL2 in Medium Quality at a decent framerate like 40 FPS or more on at least 640x480 (1024x768 would be really nice)? If not then I need to send back my boards and buy a REAL 3D accelerator from ATi. Do yall think I should keep the boards? I am trembling (overexageration) and worrying about this matter and await your replies in suspense. We thought that paying $80 bucks apeice to run this outstanding game in Medium quality would be a real bargain, but I am casting lots of doubts. Somebody give me advice about this matter ASAP. Thanks Guys.

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GeneticWeapon

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The Nvidia/HL2 problems that we're discussing are it's pixelshader/vertexshader 2.0 limitations....the directX9 end of the game.
When you play HL2, it will detect that you arent running DX9 hardware, and will fallback to it's DX8 mode(it will run on DX6 hardware even..I've heard)
So you will still be fine playing on a Ti4200. I dont know what quality settings you'll be able to use, but your framerates should be good. I'm confident that there will be a good balance in the game for most users to find.

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coolsquirtle

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the Ti4200 wont be affected cause they wont even run the game using PS2.0 cause hmmmmm maybe cause they dont have it?
without the the DX9 eyecandy, u'll run it at medium quality no pro~~~ lolz

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coolsquirtle

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i know i said "well try too" the Ti4200 dont have PS2.0

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jmecor

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the 5200 has the ps2.0 right. But very slow compared to ati.

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phial

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the 8500 is faster at PS than teh 5200ultra

not 2.0.. but 1.4, which is essentially ALMOST the same.. just doesnt allow for the loong shader programs

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ufo_warviper

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Phial do you think that I can play HL2 on medium quality with decent framerate on the ti4200s that I am considering installing in my systems?

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Caimbeul

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I'd say send them back...wait till it comes out then choose. I say this because:

1) I have heard on this forum that there are some new cards on the horizon in september(ish) time. So there may be something better for you there and if not, then the prices will have gone down anyway.

2) do you really only want to experience HL2 and all the other great games on the way in a low res and mediocre details levels??

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ufo_warviper

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Well that would be alot better than a res on low details. IMO 800x600 and 1024x768 are decent resolutions, but 640 is ok for desparation mode. Remember back when the only res in town to play ANY game on period was 320x200. The first time I saw 640 I was like - Man this is an AWESOME res. I know that's not the situation now days. Remember when Quake 3 came out? High detail looked very good, but the default Medium setting didn't look much worse off than High and still looked better than UT. I have a feeling that will be the same scenario with HL2 & Doom III, but then again I could be wrong. I thought Medium was more or less of an "average" setting rather than "mediocre".

Here are my system specs if they would be any guuidance to y'all helping me make the right choices on hardware. We have 4 gamers in the house (including my 6 year old sister & she is even excited about the hardware upgrades we're considering). Me? I'm a 20 year old college-student, and so my budget is going to have to get at least 3 of these systems up to spec for decent HL2 settings.

System 1:
Dell Inspiron 4150 Notebook
Pentium 4 1.6 GHz
256 megs DDR RAM
Mobility Radeon 7500c

system 2:
Gigabyte KT333 board
Athlon XP 1800+
256 megs DDR333 RAM
Radeon 8500LE/ or could install GeForce4 Ti4200 64 megs.
Case with 300 Watt powersupply

System2:
Gigabyte KT266A board
Athlon XP 1500+
512 megs DDR266 RAM
PCI Radeon 7200 64 meg DDR/ or GF4 Ti4200
Case with 300 Watt Power SUpply

System 4:
Gigabyte KT266A motherboard
Athlon Thunderbird 1333 OC'd to 1400 MHz.
256 megs DDR266 RAM
Matrox G400 Millineum 16 MB *cough*
Crappy 230 Watt power supply on the case.

As you can see, upgrading the Notebook has no possibility. In addition to that, if I buy faster than a Ti4200 wouldn't that bottleneck my systems? If so, then I would have to replace the memory and the CPU on almost all of them wouldn't I? I could probably afford all of these things myself w/o Question but my little brother would feel left out if he didn't help pay his fair share. I even offered to lower the percentage of pay ratios on hardware from 2:1 to me paying 80%, but he wouldn't accept & I don't blame him either. But the real question is, Would it REALLY be worth it to upgrade so many hardware items on so many systems to bump the detail up one level?

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Caimbeul

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Ah yes, 320x200 those were the days. Playing IndyCar Racing on a P100 or 200?...sigh...How I ever saw those corners comming on Laguna Seca will always remain a mystery :lol:

The Mediocre vs average thing...I only used the word mediocre coz I hadnt for ages really, lol but I think the gap between "Medium" detail settings and "Maximum" are getting bigger and more noticeable and whilst medium is usually pretty good, when you bump it up to max just to see what it looks like it kind of leaves you feeling a bit cheesed off (well id does for me)

Its all up in the air really with HL2 until the game is released all we can do is guestimate, I know how you feel, I have the Ti4200 64Mb and and itching to buy the right card right now but know I would be throwing my money down the pan. IMO a 9600pro or 5600 Ultra Rev 2.0 wouldnt be a loss in the XP1800, the others you may be right. Where are you based? USA? They are going for practically nothing here in the UK. or maybe see what 2200/2400's or that sort of thing are going for. It may be worth seeing if you can scrape together the cash for a 2500+ Barton or something, the KT333 board i think should be able to take that (my 2nd machine has an Epox 8K3A+ KT333 in it with a 2100 and can go up to 2800) over here they are practically nothing to buy and apparently can be OC'd through the roof. you could then put your 1800 in the KT266 and the 1500 in the other KT266, that way all machines get an Upgraded CPU and you only bought 1! always worth jiggling components round, I even managed to build a spare machine out parts I had left over!! . . . Also if you managed to but a 2500+ Barton in your KT333 an even higher card than the 2 i mentioned wouldnt be wasted. All I would say is to be wary of the current (possible major) issue with Nvidia cards at the moment that has been highlighted by the Tomb Raider:AOD Benchmark. I make no comment on this situation as I dont want to see another ATI or Nvidia sucks or rulez type of thing going on here.

Just something to be aware of.

Hope some if this was a help.


<i>Mmmm Dawn AND Eve at the same time...Drroooooll
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<b>XP2800 Barton, 2x512Mb PC2700, ASUS A7N8X, PNY 64Mb Ti4200. :cool:
 

Caimbeul

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In answer to your final bit about u/g'ing all the Hardware...It depends on how ypou look at it, how much do you want to enjoy your HL2 playing experience? Dont forget that your upgrade wont only help with HL2 but with other new games too like Doom3, Deus Ex 2, Far Cry etc. Dont forget Im not saying these upgrades will definatley allow you to play all these games well, but on a budget they may be the best option. Either that or save your arse off and make major upgrades to all machines which wil cost an arm and a leg!...possibly even two! :lol:

<i>Mmmm Dawn AND Eve at the same time...Drroooooll
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<b>XP2800 Barton, 2x512Mb PC2700, ASUS A7N8X, PNY 64Mb Ti4200. :cool:
 

Willamette_sucks

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I just wanna say that q3a on medium detail does NOT look better than UT at max detail. And by max detail I mean typing "preferences" in the console and turning on coronas and detail textures and all teh goodies. Q3A had more polys, but UT looked better in some ways as well.

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ufo_warviper

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Thanks for the advice Caimbeul. Compared the other 2 original cards, the 8500LE card I bought a year ago probably won't be much worse off than a Ti4200. I want one of my systems to have a Linux partition, so I'll probably need a Nvidia card. So, I could go for a Radeon 9700 for one of the systems. or do you think I should buy 3 9500 Non-pros and attempt to softmod them? 9600 Pro's could be in my budget as well. I am concerned about the RAM. Two of my systems have a paltry 256 megs and could probably use more for the newer games even though this amount seems adequate for Jedi Outcast and UT2k3 demo. Also, I'm REALLY worried about the 230 P.O.S. Powersupply on one of the systems. Personally, I have a few thousand extra dollars saved up, BUT I don't know what kind of scholarships will be available to me in the future. I'm on full scholarship at a Junior College now and its my last semester,but I doubt the situation will be half as gleeful when I go to a big time university next semester. So those extra $$$ could come in very handy (and perhaps might be essential) in that situation. If I spent a thousand or more on hardware now, I could be taking a gamble as far as College payments goes.

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ufo_warviper

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I liked UT better for its gameplay value anyways. I didn't know about the coronas etc. in the console. I was comparing it to Setting texture detail and character detail on "High" in the Video Preferences tab.

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Caimbeul

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Yeah, I'd say you would be pushing it it with a 230w (if it worked at all!) a couple of sticks of 256Mb to bump up your other systems wouldnt be that much. Can your parents help? how much do you have to spend on the lot??

I obviously dont know enough of your personal situation to be suggesting breaking into college/uni funds...thats all long term stuff and if you screw it up now then in a few years time you may not be in the job you wanted due to lack of funds early on and you wont be earning big bucks and be able to afford your GF FX 5,000,000 or ATI 9Billion with 500Ghz memory and super duper components to go with it.

I wouldnt touch the funds. What about work? save from that? I dunno. Best thing to do is shop for all the stuff you think you'd need, see how much it comes to then see what you think you can go without. Maybe waiting a couple of months will yield more money for you?

either that or you could start taking to street corners late at night, lol :wink:

<i>Mmmm Dawn AND Eve at the same time...Drroooooll
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<b>XP2800 Barton, 2x512Mb PC2700, ASUS A7N8X, PNY 64Mb Ti4200. :cool:
 

ufo_warviper

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I'm such a big Half-Life fan that I'll probably replay this game several times over the next 2-3 or more years along with some other upcoming titles that I'll probably play not as much as HL2, maybe I'll play Doom 3 several times as well. Since such is the case, if I don't get to enjoy the luxury of High detail the first time around that won't be such a big deal as it PROBABLY will look decent. But that will give me something to look forward to next year, and make the replay value even better when I get the engine upgrade, so to speak. Do you think that it will at least run on Medium 800x600 at decent framerates on the current setups with Ti4200s? I might keep one or 2 of them and get a 1 or 2 Radeon 9500s or 9600s or maybe even a 9700 instead of getting 3 of the same thing, (which would be kind of bland anywayz. At least I would have 1 system on the network capable of experiencing HL2 to its fullest. But like I asked before, do you think it will WORK well on the settings I was hoping for with Ti4200s?

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