Hmmm, budget build with some longevity .... thinking Ryzen 1600?

[neiler0847]

It's been two years since my last build and I'm itching!

My objectives:

• 
  ■ I'd like to build something on a reasonable budget that will last for a while.
  ■ I'm not a PC-gamer, preferring a couch, PS4 and large-screen TV for video games.
  ■ I've never overclocked my 4790K system, but would like to leave the option open.
  ■ I'd like to experiment with an M.2 NVMe SSD.

I am a little annoyed with Intel after reading stories about inconsisent Kaby-Lake processor quality and heat issues. This whole Ryzen thing sounds pretty cool, and I wouldn't mind putting a few dollars into a competitor's pockets. I think Intel has maybe gotten a little too comfortable.

I like the price-points of the Ryzen 5's, and was reading that the 1500X and 1600 come with AMD's Wraith Spire cooler, so that makes those processors even more price-compelling. Sure, I can get a Hyper 212 cooler for $25, but that is another $25, and then I have to worry about case size.

I like the 1600 over the 1500X for the extra two cores. And the review of the 1500X on tom's HARDWARE was not compelling.

I was also a little concerned when I read that the Ryzen processors don't include graphics support, but it appears that this just means that the motherboard manufacturers throw a few more chips on the board. I wouldn't be adding a discrete graphics card to start.

When it comes to motherboards, I think there might be justification for the X370 chipset over the B350 chipset. I like the extra USB ports, SATA ports and PCI-E lanes. My PCI-E needs would be NVME SSD, wifi card and a discrete graphics card (eventually). It'd be nice to still have SATA bandwidth for an additional drive or two. I don't think an optical drive is required.

Anyway, enough talking ..... any opinions?

 

[Chugalug_]

Your 4790k still performs among the best CPUs on the market for gaming, still pummeling everything except the 6700k and 7700k. No need to upgrade the CPU. The only upgrade i'd consider is a graphics card upgrade.
Ryzen is more suited to editing/rendering or a replacement for an i5 for mid range gaming systems.

 

[marko55]

Yeah, if you're not gaming, rendering, etc. then honestly why upgrade? Your current CPU is still a beast by today's standards. In fact, if overclocked well it can perform about as well as a brand new (stock) Ryzen 1600 outside of apps that seriously benefit from mutli-threading.

If your current motherboard is lacking in features and you wanna have some fun upgrading you can save yourself some $$ by picking up a sweet board like an ASrock Z97 Extreme6 and an m.2 NVMe SSD (the board supports it), maybe some DDR3 3200 RAM (heck I even have some trident for sale), a liquid cooler and have some fun OC'ing your current rig.

That said, if you wanna do something new, the 1600 is a great choice. Throw it in and OC on the stock cooler by simply setting the multiplier to 3900 and you're off. That's a whole lotta processor if you're not really doin much on your machine though.

What DO you do on your computer?

 

[Chugalug_]

Nah, even if he is doing compute tasks the i7 4790k will still hold its own easily against the 1600, i'd expect it to perform a little worse, but not enough to justify another CPU purchase.
Plus then you have to consider gaming performance, not worth any change at all.
Also in regards to cooler, @OP, if you're not happy with your current cooler, don't get an AIO, a Cryorig H5 will perform much the same as an NH-D15 and costs $45 with no RAM interference.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

^ another one to consider is the sythe mugen 5 @ ~50 usd

 

[Chugalug_]

You really love that cooler eh?

 

[Lucky_SLS]

i love bang for buck products

 

[neiler0847]

I don't do anything on my current machine that justifies its current level of performance. And I wouldn't be replacing it.

I just want to build another machine to mess about with and to try some new technologies. Maybe I'll turn it into a media server for my home theater afterwards.

 

[marko55]

Haha, I love it. In that case grab a 1600 and a nice X370 board (maybe a gigabyte gaming K7), clock the CPU to 3.9, grab 2x8GB of DDR2666, an NVMe SSD and have a ball.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($217.55 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock X370 KILLER SLI/ac ATX AM4 Motherboard ($138.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team T-Force / Night Hawk 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: MyDigitalSSD BPX 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.66 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 480 8GB GTR Video Card ($224.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($61.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($47.78 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($86.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1065.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-02 13:07 EDT-0400

 

[Chugalug_]

An ITX system is best in that case. I'll make a list in a bit.
Just Fyi, you're not using this as a primary gaming machine right?
What are the uses?
Just CPU oriented tasks?

 

[Jack_242]

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/Shambles312/saved/#view=Gv2wP6

Here is a build for you.

I went with 4 x 4 GB DIMM because they bench better than 2 x 8 GB.

 

[Chugalug_]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

 

[Jack_242]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

http://www.userbenchmark.com/PCBuilder?tab=RAM

Benchmarks don't lie.
I thought running 4 sticks allows 2x the bandwidth since you are filling all the dual channel slots instead of just the one channel.

 

[Chugalug_]

That's not how it works, dimm slot bandwidth is irrelevant.
Also what 'benchmarks' are you referring to?
I see several dual channel kits in the supposed top rated kits area, its primarily dependent on frequency and CAS timings as well as module quality overall.
No single RAM stick bottlenecks a RAM slot currently that i can think of, that's dependent on the motherboard.
Most B250 boards have a maximum of 32GB RAM support (8GB sticks x4) while most Z series boards support 64GB (16GB modules) to even 128GB with some higher end boards.
Dual channel memory and quad channel are the only factors apart from frequency and module quality that should be considered when taking performance into account.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

only a quad channel supported chipset like intel x99 can take advantage of 4x ram sticks. z270, am4 have a dual channel setup. having 4 ram sticks just increases the stress on the memory controller.

 

[neiler0847]

The Scythe Mugen 5 is only compatible with AM4 if you get a conversion kit.

Scythe will send a free kit to European customers with proof of purchase of the cooler and an AM4 board or processor.

Don't know about North America though.

 

[marko55]

A Corsair H60 will cool a Ryzen 1700X OC'd to 3950 at 1.375v just fine. I've done it. You just have to be able to fit it in your case, and order the bracket from corsair.com. There's a TON of very nice mid-tower ATX cases that you can use this cooler in.

If you're gonna push your voltage North of 1.4 the heat starts going up quick on these.

I've also got a 1600X build here that's manually OC'd to 4.0 at 1.375 cooled by an H80i and its very cool. Even under Prime95 load tests, which run CPUs SUPER hot, it only reaches 65c.

In the Corsair AIO line I think the best bang for the buck for Ryzen cooling is the H75. You don't have to worry about manually tuning your pump & fan speeds in Corsair link like the Hxxi units, and that software is flaky. The H75 cools great & you can simply control its fan from your mobo connector.

Bottom line is it doesn't take a lot to cool the Ryzen chips because the vast vast majority really cannot be overclocked over 4.0, and in many cases only 3.9 and the voltage required to do so is pretty low. So if you do wanna stick with air you'd also be fine with a decent air cooler.

 

[Chugalug_]

The Scythe Mugen 5 is only compatible with AM4 if you get a conversion kit.

Scythe will send a free kit to European customers with proof of purchase of the cooler and an AM4 board or processor.

Don't know about North America though.

In regards to the guy above this comment, the H60 is a terrible choice for any CPU, especially in terms of value.
Contact Scythe directly, they'd probably offer the kit in north America since they're selling the cooler there.

 

[Jack_242]

Deepcool Captain 120 EX is a good little cooler and is cheap too.

 

[Chugalug_]

Any 120mm liquid cooler will be relatively poor performance, noisy and poor value regardless unless they're magically selling one for $30.
An air cooler in the same price range will cool better while also opening up more room for airflow in the case vs a radiator cooler.

Water cooling in general (Anything below 240mm shouldn't be considered unless its an ITX rig) isn't a good idea unless you're going for a really high end rig and can afford to stick it in after everything else has been accounted for.

 

[marko55]

This kid is funny, and wrong on so many levels. Just do your research and try to make a proper informed decision.

 

[Chugalug_]

I don't mean to be rude, but judging by your profile you don't have much experience with hardware, take some advice or google some reviews if you don't believe me, just because there's water in there doesn't mean its good value for money.
Here's some comparisons, and i've used a 140mm water cooler instead of a 120mm to prove a point here and give you an advantage in this comparison.
H80i GT: $89.99 http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7272/corsair-hydro-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html
Performance Mode load temperature 67c Quiet Mode load temperature 68.5c

Cryorig H5 Universal: $46
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6966/cryorig-h5-universal-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
Load Temperature 73c

Paying twice as much for 5-6c difference with minimal impact, still think they're worth it?

 

[marko55]

Rude, arrogant and clearly naive that you think that someone's Toms Hardware profile (and I'm assuming the badges maybe?) speaks to their hardware knowledge.

You just ran a "value" comparison using a $90 AIO cooler I never even mentioned. The H60 I'm speaking about is only $65. And yes, I do find value in liquid coolers because of the room it leaves in the middle of my cases. Granted, the 20+ machines I've built in the last 2 years were on X99 & X79, across the entire CPU line, some OC'd some not and in full tower cases. I'm here to tell you, from a business perspective, an AIO liquid cooler has more wow factor than an air cooler to customers that appreciate "high end" even if its not really providing any additional benefit over air. And no, this does not apply to this thread as we're not talking about marketing for this build. Its simply a preference thing by many people.

"An air cooler in the same price range will cool better while also opening up more room for airflow in the case vs a radiator cooler." Not sure what you mean.
The Cryorig H5 Universal is a 140mm x 140mm, which is huge in the middle of a case compared to a small pump that sits close to the motherboard, leaving the middle of the case open for air flow. Yes, the rear mounted radiator with one fan on the H60 sticks out from the rear a bit but absolutely does not disrupt airflow in even a mid-tower ATX case. Frankly I'd say that both solutions will maintain acceptable airflow depending on the case.

To say that "the H60 is a terrible choice for any CPU" is just wrong, period. Its a very feasible AIO cooler for a solution that doesn't require high end and expensive cooling, just like this one, which is why I threw the suggestion out there. Some people prefer the look and setup of liquid coolers. You can hate on them all you want but there's an AIO liquid cooler at a lot of price points for people that want to use them. I won't BS, yeah, the stock fans can be a little noisy or "whiney." I actually replace them all with decent high static pressure 3rd party fans or white LED fans which serve a purpose of lighting things up also.

Its great that you read all these articles but I've built two Ryzen machines in the last month; one on a 1700X and one on a 1600X. Both used different Corsair AIO 120mm coolers. The 1700X has an H60 and that cooler handles that (overclocked) CPU absolutely perfectly and at a great price. Could I have used air? Yeah, absolutely, but I prefer liquid coolers. I'm simply providing my personal experience as a viable option.

Hell, my initial recommendation was to just buy the 1600 that comes with the wraith cooler because again, it will actually cool the CPU just fine unless you start trying to put high voltages through it. These CPUs cannot clock that high to require anything crazy. I know, I've tried...twice!

Clearly you've got some knowledge but I suggest being careful making such "certain" statements. Different people are gonna have different preferences than you and certainly different designs. It doesn't make them wrong; they're just different than yours, and at the end of the day if somebody wants to throw an H110 on a non-K i5 its their prerogative no matter how stupid either you or I think it is. People come here for your advice and expertise; they deserve to be well informed.

 

[Jack_242]

Rude, arrogant and clearly naive that you think that someone's Toms Hardware profile (and I'm assuming the badges maybe?) speaks to their hardware knowledge.

You just ran a "value" comparison using a $90 AIO cooler I never even mentioned. The H60 I'm speaking about is only $65. And yes, I do find value in liquid coolers because of the room it leaves in the middle of my cases. Granted, the 20+ machines I've built in the last 2 years were on X99 & X79, across the entire CPU line, some OC'd some not and in full tower cases. I'm here to tell you, from a business perspective, an AIO liquid cooler has more wow factor than an air cooler to customers that appreciate "high end" even if its not really providing any additional benefit over air. And no, this does not apply to this thread as we're not talking about marketing for this build. Its simply a preference thing by many people.

"An air cooler in the same price range will cool better while also opening up more room for airflow in the case vs a radiator cooler." Not sure what you mean.
The Cryorig H5 Universal is a 140mm x 140mm, which is huge in the middle of a case compared to a small pump that sits close to the motherboard, leaving the middle of the case open for air flow. Yes, the rear mounted radiator with one fan on the H60 sticks out from the rear a bit but absolutely does not disrupt airflow in even a mid-tower ATX case. Frankly I'd say that both solutions will maintain acceptable airflow depending on the case.

To say that "the H60 is a terrible choice for any CPU" is just wrong, period. Its a very feasible AIO cooler for a solution that doesn't require high end and expensive cooling, just like this one, which is why I threw the suggestion out there. Some people prefer the look and setup of liquid coolers. You can hate on them all you want but there's an AIO liquid cooler at a lot of price points for people that want to use them. I won't BS, yeah, the stock fans can be a little noisy or "whiney." I actually replace them all with decent high static pressure 3rd party fans or white LED fans which serve a purpose of lighting things up also.

Its great that you read all these articles but I've built two Ryzen machines in the last month; one on a 1700X and one on a 1600X. Both used different Corsair AIO 120mm coolers. The 1700X has an H60 and that cooler handles that (overclocked) CPU absolutely perfectly and at a great price. Could I have used air? Yeah, absolutely, but I prefer liquid coolers. I'm simply providing my personal experience as a viable option.

Hell, my initial recommendation was to just buy the 1600 that comes with the wraith cooler because again, it will actually cool the CPU just fine unless you start trying to put high voltages through it. These CPUs cannot clock that high to require anything crazy. I know, I've tried...twice!

Clearly you've got some knowledge but I suggest being careful making such "certain" statements. Different people are gonna have different preferences than you and certainly different designs. It doesn't make them wrong; they're just different than yours, and at the end of the day if somebody wants to throw an H110 on a non-K i5 its their prerogative no matter how stupid either you or I think it is. People come here for your advice and expertise; they deserve to be well informed.

First since my profile was mentioned I would like a second glance be made to see when I joined the forum. Second ignorance is bliss and a profile does not say everything about the person behind the computer. Finally I would like everyone to take a look at the top 10 AIO closed loop water coolers BY none other then Tomshardware.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181-2.html

The Deepcool Captain 120 EX (with a noctua NF-f12 3000) has yielded better results than the Corsair h100i v2 and the h60. The sad part is the Zalaman air cooler performed better than the h60.