Hmmm, budget build with some longevity .... thinking Ryzen 1600?

[neiler0847]

It's been two years since my last build and I'm itching!

My objectives:

• 
  ■ I'd like to build something on a reasonable budget that will last for a while.
  ■ I'm not a PC-gamer, preferring a couch, PS4 and large-screen TV for video games.
  ■ I've never overclocked my 4790K system, but would like to leave the option open.
  ■ I'd like to experiment with an M.2 NVMe SSD.

I am a little annoyed with Intel after reading stories about inconsisent Kaby-Lake processor quality and heat issues. This whole Ryzen thing sounds pretty cool, and I wouldn't mind putting a few dollars into a competitor's pockets. I think Intel has maybe gotten a little too comfortable.

I like the price-points of the Ryzen 5's, and was reading that the 1500X and 1600 come with AMD's Wraith Spire cooler, so that makes those processors even more price-compelling. Sure, I can get a Hyper 212 cooler for $25, but that is another $25, and then I have to worry about case size.

I like the 1600 over the 1500X for the extra two cores. And the review of the 1500X on tom's HARDWARE was not compelling.

I was also a little concerned when I read that the Ryzen processors don't include graphics support, but it appears that this just means that the motherboard manufacturers throw a few more chips on the board. I wouldn't be adding a discrete graphics card to start.

When it comes to motherboards, I think there might be justification for the X370 chipset over the B350 chipset. I like the extra USB ports, SATA ports and PCI-E lanes. My PCI-E needs would be NVME SSD, wifi card and a discrete graphics card (eventually). It'd be nice to still have SATA bandwidth for an additional drive or two. I don't think an optical drive is required.

Anyway, enough talking ..... any opinions?

 

[marko55]

That's correct. There are air coolers that are better than AIO liquid coolers. Still kinda missing the point here though.

Buying a cooler isn't 100% about what's gonna give you 3-5c lower max load temps, especially when you're talking about 52-55c under load where either is absolutely fine. When you build a new rig and you go cooler shopping, what are you looking for? First, yeah, should be looking for one that's gonna cool your CPU well, especially if you've overclocking. I guarantee though that you find multiple air AND AIO liquid coolers that will do it. You're then gonna choose if you want air or liquid based on many factors (room in your case, how it mounts, how it looks, are you afraid an AIO cooler is gonna bust and spew liquid all over your components). We've all made this very decision. Some are going to choose one, some the other. Its a VERY simply matter of preference, then cost, of course.

The single most important point is what's going to effectively cool your CPU. That's why the cheap H60 is a perfectly viable option in this case IF you happen to like AIO liquid coolers. That cooler will effectively cool a Ryzen chip, even if OC'd to its max simply because Ryzen's max is gonna be (hopefully) 4.0 in most scenarios, and you don't have to push high voltage to get there. These chips don't get that hot because they just can't OC high like Intel chips, unless you go nuts cranking voltage. There's a reason that the guy who broke the record OC'ing a Ryzen chip used LN2....

If this discussion was about OC'ing a 7700K or a Broadwell-E/Haswell-E I certainly wouldn't be recommending an H60. Personally I use H105s in these builds and it performs very well, but that's just me. If you wanna slap a 140mm dual fan air cooler on it more power to ya. I've got a dual Xeon 2650-v3 build sitting next to me right now, in a cheap full tower ATX case, that I used Noctua air coolers on and not liquid. With the right case I could have used liquid but that's just not how I designed it. Its a simple matter of finding a cooler that will effectively cool your CPU(s), on the budget you want, in a form factor that you like. That's what its all about here guys, not a bunch of charts.

BTW Jack, I don't think he was talking about your profile. He was talking about mine.

 

[Jack_242]

Oh I think you are right.
On another note the Deepcool Captain 120 EX is around the same price as the Corsair H60.
What sets them apart:
Deepcool uses ceramic water blocks , while Corsair uses copper.
Deepcool's radiator can be compared to Corsairs H80i.
The AIO breaths when on and glows either red or white depending on the model.

 

[madmatt30]

^ no am4 brackets available for the deepcool aio's though mate yet.

Big issue there when the captain 240 ex is probably THE best price to performance water cooler there is.

In fact its fairly shocking the amount of cooler manufacturers that still don't have am4 brackets available yet!

 

[madmatt30]

On another note while I wouldn't consider the h60 worthless it is very very bad value for what it actually offers (like most 120mm aio's)

 

[Jack_242]

^ no am4 brackets available for the deepcool aio's though mate yet.

Big issue there when the captain 240 ex is probably THE best price to performance water cooler there is.

In fact its fairly shocking the amount of cooler manufacturers that still don't have am4 brackets available yet!

The AIO is listed as compatible with AM4 on pcpartpickers.com.

 

[madmatt30]

Oops mate I'm wrong , you have to buy it though.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDFGKYM

That's my 240ex being ordered in the next hour now.

 

[okcnaline]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

Absolute butchering of the definition of dual channel memory. When RAM sticks run in dual channel, it runs faster because the memory controller has another stick of RAM to throw random files to store. It doesn't stress the memory controller.

I don't mean to be rude, but judging by your profile you don't have much experience with hardware, take some advice or google some reviews if you don't believe me, just because there's water in there doesn't mean its good value for money.
Here's some comparisons, and i've used a 140mm water cooler instead of a 120mm to prove a point here and give you an advantage in this comparison.
H80i GT: $89.99 http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7272/corsair-hydro-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html
Performance Mode load temperature 67c Quiet Mode load temperature 68.5c

Cryorig H5 Universal: $46
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6966/cryorig-h5-universal-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
Load Temperature 73c

Paying twice as much for 5-6c difference with minimal impact, still think they're worth it?

You know I have to report this disrespect, right? No ad hominem attacks, please.

That's correct. There are air coolers that are better than AIO liquid coolers. Still kinda missing the point here though.

Buying a cooler isn't 100% about what's gonna give you 3-5c lower max load temps, especially when you're talking about 52-55c under load where either is absolutely fine. When you build a new rig and you go cooler shopping, what are you looking for? First, yeah, should be looking for one that's gonna cool your CPU well, especially if you've overclocking. I guarantee though that you find multiple air AND AIO liquid coolers that will do it. You're then gonna choose if you want air or liquid based on many factors (room in your case, how it mounts, how it looks, are you afraid an AIO cooler is gonna bust and spew liquid all over your components). We've all made this very decision. Some are going to choose one, some the other. Its a VERY simply matter of preference, then cost, of course.

The single most important point is what's going to effectively cool your CPU. That's why the cheap H60 is a perfectly viable option in this case IF you happen to like AIO liquid coolers. That cooler will effectively cool a Ryzen chip, even if OC'd to its max simply because Ryzen's max is gonna be (hopefully) 4.0 in most scenarios, and you don't have to push high voltage to get there. These chips don't get that hot because they just can't OC high like Intel chips, unless you go nuts cranking voltage. There's a reason that the guy who broke the record OC'ing a Ryzen chip used LN2....

If this discussion was about OC'ing a 7700K or a Broadwell-E/Haswell-E I certainly wouldn't be recommending an H60. Personally I use H105s in these builds and it performs very well, but that's just me. If you wanna slap a 140mm dual fan air cooler on it more power to ya. I've got a dual Xeon 2650-v3 build sitting next to me right now, in a cheap full tower ATX case, that I used Noctua air coolers on and not liquid. With the right case I could have used liquid but that's just not how I designed it. Its a simple matter of finding a cooler that will effectively cool your CPU(s), on the budget you want, in a form factor that you like. That's what its all about here guys, not a bunch of charts.

You know why people use water cooling? Specific heat of liquid water is higher than that of air. The math goes:

Pw=E/t, where E = the unit Joules, t = time
Let E be H because same unit
H=mS(delta T) where H = heat, m = mass (ignore it for this matter), S = specific heat, delta T = change of temperature
Assume m is constant, temperature for the proof is constant (air cooler and water cooler, which one goes to the temperature faster), and power is constant (like 65 W for Ryzen, 130W for FX, 95 W for i7-7700K, etc.). Given is that S of liquid water is higher than that of air. Heat directly varies with specific heat; the others are constant. So, higher the specific heat, more heat is the result. Heat over time is power. So, because heat by air cooling is lower, less time is used to achieve x amount of power.

That's what water cooling is for: to increase time that it takes for the CPU to get hot. You're bound to get the same temperature as an air cooler; it's just that the amount of time it stays cooler than expected temperature would lengthen lifespan of a CPU.


OP: Sorry that this thread derailed like such. Can you tell me what games you play so I can give you the best advice I could possibly give?

 

[Jack_242]

AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor $217.55

MSI X370 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX AM4 Motherboard $173.29

Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory $114.99

Deepcool CAPTAIN 240EX WHIT $80.99

Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive $127.98

Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $47.45

EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0+ Video Card $300.00 (ebay)

Phanteks ECLIPSE P400S ATX Mid Tower Case $84.99

EVGA B3 650W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $74.99

Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit 86$

With Liquid AIO:
Base Total: $1319.11
Mail-in Rebates: -$10.00
Total: $1309.11
Without:
Base Total: $1238.12
Mail-in Rebates: -$10.00
Total: $1228.12

Choosing the Ryzen 5 1600 seemed to be the best answer since the other Ryzen 5 models are the same thing just set at a higher clock out of the box. Keeping expansion in mind the MSI X370 PRO GAMING CARBON seemed to be a reasonable priced top tier motherboard that included things the ASUS Crosshair Hero VI did not have. Due to the problems with higher clocked RAM and the new AMD motherboards we kept it simple and went with what is known to work. Skipping over the AIO and storage we move down to the EVGA GTX 980 Ti. The newer 10xx models are out so the older 9xx models have dropped in price making it much more reasonable to grab the best of the best from the previous tier.

 

[logainofhades]

I don't mean to be rude, but judging by your profile you don't have much experience with hardware, take some advice or google some reviews if you don't believe me, just because there's water in there doesn't mean its good value for money.
Here's some comparisons, and i've used a 140mm water cooler instead of a 120mm to prove a point here and give you an advantage in this comparison.
H80i GT: $89.99 http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7272/corsair-hydro-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html
Performance Mode load temperature 67c Quiet Mode load temperature 68.5c

Cryorig H5 Universal: $46
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6966/cryorig-h5-universal-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
Load Temperature 73c

Paying twice as much for 5-6c difference with minimal impact, still think they're worth it?

No you did mean to be rude, or you wouldn't have said it. I would advise against doing it again.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

You ( and Lucky_SLS ) are wrong about that. Skylake and Kaby Lake both do better with all 4 DIMMs populated.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1570219/skylake-6700k-memory-tests-speed-vs-latency

 

[Deleted member 217926]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

http://www.userbenchmark.com/PCBuilder?tab=RAM

Benchmarks don't lie.
I thought running 4 sticks allows 2x the bandwidth since you are filling all the dual channel slots instead of just the one channel.

Correct!

Not double the bandwidth but the IMC on Skylake and Kaby is obviously designed to use all 4 DIMMs. There is a noticeable difference.

 

[Chugalug_]

I don't mean to be rude, but judging by your profile you don't have much experience with hardware, take some advice or google some reviews if you don't believe me, just because there's water in there doesn't mean its good value for money.
Here's some comparisons, and i've used a 140mm water cooler instead of a 120mm to prove a point here and give you an advantage in this comparison.
H80i GT: $89.99 http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7272/corsair-hydro-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html
Performance Mode load temperature 67c Quiet Mode load temperature 68.5c

Cryorig H5 Universal: $46
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6966/cryorig-h5-universal-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
Load Temperature 73c

Paying twice as much for 5-6c difference with minimal impact, still think they're worth it?

No you did mean to be rude, or you wouldn't have said it. I would advise against doing it again.

I honestly didn't, just wanted to show the performance variation.
Sorry if anyone was offended.

 

[Chugalug_]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

http://www.userbenchmark.com/PCBuilder?tab=RAM

Benchmarks don't lie.
I thought running 4 sticks allows 2x the bandwidth since you are filling all the dual channel slots instead of just the one channel.

Correct!

Not double the bandwidth but the IMC on Skylake and Kaby is obviously designed to use all 4 DIMMs. There is a noticeable difference.

Interesting, I didn't know that was a thing.
Could you go more into depth? Sounds useful.

 

[razamatraz]

I built a super budget 1600 with the cheapest board I could find: MSI B350M Gaming Pro MATX and 16 GB of Gskill 3200 RAM. Stuffed it all into a Carbide 88R case and added one fan (unfortunately that board only has 2 case fan headers so adding more will mean a fan controller or ~shudder~ Molex. Even that cheap ass B350 board has no trouble at all running the RAM at 2933 and the CPU at 3.8 full time. Doesn't even take 1.3 volts to hold 3.8 and that was on the old BIOS. 1.35V was getting me 3.9 but temps were getting up there due to case airflow and the Spire. There is a lot of potential to Ryzen.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

Incorrect, the RAM runs in dual channel, it wouldn't give any additional performance and would just put more stress on the memory controller and fill up slots.

You ( and Lucky_SLS ) are wrong about that. Skylake and Kaby Lake both do better with all 4 DIMMs populated.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1570219/skylake-6700k-memory-tests-speed-vs-latency

what abt reports that rams fail in memtest or even normal usage in the long run? especially if oc'd to higher speed and upvolted. the b350 can overclock both. just for safety reasons.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3258634/4gb-ram-dual-channel-motherboard.html
this is just one i found when i googled it.

 

[Chugalug_]

???
That's incorrect unless you're doing overclocking above rated speeds which is at your own risk, you shouldn't be applying additional voltage anyway.

 

[razamatraz]

Why are you guys arguing about RAM population on Skylake when the OP is asking about building himself an R5 1600 rig? Seriously, make a thread about it if you feel the need to battle it out.

R5 1600 is a great chip; I'm not actually sure why I bought it though other than the same reason you're considering it; just to see how good it really is with my own eyes. In gaming my 6700K is basically the same, I do some video work but not much so yah, it's great, not really an upgrade for what I use it for though which means I might just turn around and sell it.

 

[logainofhades]

I don't mean to be rude, but judging by your profile you don't have much experience with hardware, take some advice or google some reviews if you don't believe me, just because there's water in there doesn't mean its good value for money.
Here's some comparisons, and i've used a 140mm water cooler instead of a 120mm to prove a point here and give you an advantage in this comparison.
H80i GT: $89.99 http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7272/corsair-hydro-h80i-gt-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler-review/index7.html
Performance Mode load temperature 67c Quiet Mode load temperature 68.5c

Cryorig H5 Universal: $46
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6966/cryorig-h5-universal-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html
Load Temperature 73c

Paying twice as much for 5-6c difference with minimal impact, still think they're worth it?

No you did mean to be rude, or you wouldn't have said it. I would advise against doing it again.

I honestly didn't, just wanted to show the performance variation.
Sorry if anyone was offended.

You insulted the user's knowledge based on their profile. There was no need for that. That was what the warning was for.