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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

The current Weekly World News has an article about the Pope vowing to
destroy the world's vampires by blessing entire storm systems with a
quick ritual and prayer to turn everything from thunderstorms to
Category Five Hurricanes to Holy Water. The main problem with the plan
seems to be actually getting him to the storms around the world in
time...

Could this work in the WoD? Not on a worldwide scale, of course, but
could a large enough Cabal of Choristers successfully bless an
incoming storm system sufficiently to affect all vampires within, say,
a large city? What spheres would be involved, and could the kindred
counter this or track the origin of the Effect? What might be their
reaction if this were to occur?

Dex,
For Entertainment Purposes Only...^^
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In the borning days of the third millennium, Hand-of-Omega wrote:
>Could this work in the WoD? Not on a worldwide scale, of course, but
>could a large enough Cabal of Choristers successfully bless an
>incoming storm system sufficiently to affect all vampires within, say,
>a large city? What spheres would be involved, and could the kindred
>counter this or track the origin of the Effect? What might be their
>reaction if this were to occur?

Blessing something is a simple Prime 3 rote. The tricky part is gathering the
Quintessence and Successes to accomplish it. However, this grand scheme can
be countered with the advanced technique known as "a roof".

--
Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)

Puritanism didn't keep the puritans from sinning, it just kept
them from enjoying it.
--Father Joe Breighner
Country Roads
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Hand-of-Omega wrote:
> The current Weekly World News has an article about the Pope vowing to
> destroy the world's vampires by blessing entire storm systems with a
> quick ritual and prayer to turn everything from thunderstorms to
> Category Five Hurricanes to Holy Water. The main problem with the plan
> seems to be actually getting him to the storms around the world in
> time...
>
> Could this work in the WoD? Not on a worldwide scale, of course, but
> could a large enough Cabal of Choristers successfully bless an
> incoming storm system sufficiently to affect all vampires within, say,
> a large city? What spheres would be involved, and could the kindred
> counter this or track the origin of the Effect? What might be their
> reaction if this were to occur?
>
> Dex,
> For Entertainment Purposes Only...^^

That's just freaky :)

Lots of ways to do this.

First, using the storm purely as a focus, its a Corr 3 Ward
incorporating Prime 3 (to detect and deal damage to vampires with pure
Prime force). This would basically "exorcise" all vampires in the area.

To actually enchant the storm I would call for Forces 4 (to be able to
treat the storm as a single force) and Prime 2. With this effect, only
vampires exposed to the storm's water would take Agg damage.

Enchanting the water itself doesn't really work, as what you have a
millions of droplets... still, thinking about it, I'd probably allow a
Corr 3/ Matter 1 (to link all the droplets) + Prime 2 to enchant them.

You know, strictly cannonicly, I don't think any of these approaches
requires using more than one quintessence.

Yet another point to bring up in the ever-popular "Yes, my starting mage
CAN drive every vampire out of this city." arguments.

As for tracking him down: Well, I'd insist on this ritual being
something damn impressive. I'd think Auspex could identify the link
between such a massive ritual and its effect, though I don't know the
precise powers of Auspex that well. Of course, taking advantage of this
knowledge would probably require going outside...

William
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Brian Merchant wrote:

> In the borning days of the third millennium, Hand-of-Omega wrote:
>
>>Could this work in the WoD? Not on a worldwide scale, of course, but
>>could a large enough Cabal of Choristers successfully bless an
>>incoming storm system sufficiently to affect all vampires within, say,
>>a large city? What spheres would be involved, and could the kindred
>>counter this or track the origin of the Effect? What might be their
>>reaction if this were to occur?
>
>
> Blessing something is a simple Prime 3 rote. The tricky part is gathering the
> Quintessence and Successes to accomplish it. However, this grand scheme can
> be countered with the advanced technique known as "a roof".
>
> --
> Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)
>

Add an entropy 2 effect, for windows to break at the worst possible
time, and every roof and basement wall to leak.

I mean, if you are going to perform a god-like feat anyway, what's a
dozen more successes?

William
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Hand-of-Omega" <smilinglord@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27420f11.0405261905.273dd883@posting.google.com...
> The current Weekly World News has an article about the Pope vowing to
> destroy the world's vampires by blessing entire storm systems with a
> quick ritual and prayer to turn everything from thunderstorms to
> Category Five Hurricanes to Holy Water. The main problem with the plan
> seems to be actually getting him to the storms around the world in
> time...
>


Um, wasn't this a scene from one of the Vampirella comics a few years back?

IIRC, an Anita Blake novel also had the title character activate a werewolf
holy site while dozens of vamps were there. The vamps instantly did a roman
candle impression.

-Essex
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Tracking him down afterwards would likely become a priority. He would have
every vampire in the region after him. That sort of thing doesn't happen
naturaly after all. It might take time for them to figure out who did it
though. If he plays his cards right, he can get someone else blamed. 😛
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Hand-of-Omega" wrote
<snip>
> Could this work in the WoD?

Here's an issue: Most WoD vampires are unaffected by holy water AFAIK.

--
--
Trashdog
---
"Trash is the eternal enigma of the dog world. It's food ...but if you eat
it you get yelled at."
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Trashdog wrote:

> Here's an issue: Most WoD vampires are unaffected by holy water AFAIK.

No, all WoD vampires are affected by holy water. It's just that most
stuff people call holy water isn't actually holy water -- the priest
doing the blessing has to have a True Faith score.

Except for the Baali, who are hurt by regular old "holy water" as if it
were the real stuff, and take double damage if it /is/ the real stuff.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Trashdog wrote:
> "Hand-of-Omega" wrote
> <snip>
>
>>Could this work in the WoD?
>
>
> Here's an issue: Most WoD vampires are unaffected by holy water AFAIK.
>

A minor detail that doesn't matter to a Mage at all.

William
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Trashdog wrote:

>"Hand-of-Omega" wrote
><snip>
>
>
>>Could this work in the WoD?
>>
>>
>
>Here's an issue: Most WoD vampires are unaffected by holy water AFAIK.
>
>
Most real world vampires ("real", psychic, ect...) are unaffected by
holy water as well. Fits perfectly into Vampire or Hunter!

I mean... picture it. Fanatical and corrupt members of the vatican
hatch an entirely self-defeating scheme to "save the world" from
vampires they hardly know anything about. Like consecrating rain clouds
would do any good.

Compared to the pope's scheme, *hunters* look like they know what
they're doing.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Stephenls" wrote:

> No, all WoD vampires are affected by holy water. It's just that most
> stuff people call holy water isn't actually holy water -- the priest
> doing the blessing has to have a True Faith score.

Ahh, okay. I had thought it was only if a particular vampire had a Flaw for
it. Like running water, garlic, crucifixes, etc. But True Faith makes sense.
I'm not muvh og a VtM player and I'm definitly no Mage or Hunter player.

> Except for the Baali, who are hurt by regular old "holy water" as if it
> were the real stuff, and take double damage if it /is/ the real stuff.

Them crazy minor Clans. Bloodlines. Whatever.
--
--
Trashdog
---
"Trash is the eternal enigma of the dog world. It's food ...but if you eat
it you get yelled at."
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"William" wrote
<snip>
> A minor detail that doesn't matter to a Mage at all.


Right, but the OP said WoD, not Mage.

--
--
Trashdog
---
"Trash is the eternal enigma of the dog world. It's food ...but if you eat
it you get yelled at."
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Trashdog" <wolfofeire@Pantshotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k25uc.7611$oh7.4381@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> "William" wrote
> <snip>
> > A minor detail that doesn't matter to a Mage at all.
>
>
> Right, but the OP said WoD, not Mage.

Then it entirely depends on whether magic can emulate True Faith in your
campaign (since water blessed by a guy with a True Faith score *does* fry
vampires, even if he otherwise has no mojo at all).

- David Prokopetz.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:45:11 -0600, "David Prokopetz"
<sirbob@penguinking.com> wrote:

>"Trashdog" <wolfofeire@Pantshotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:k25uc.7611$oh7.4381@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>> "William" wrote
>> <snip>
>> > A minor detail that doesn't matter to a Mage at all.
>>
>>
>> Right, but the OP said WoD, not Mage.
>
>Then it entirely depends on whether magic can emulate True Faith in your
>campaign (since water blessed by a guy with a True Faith score *does* fry
>vampires, even if he otherwise has no mojo at all).
>

However to pull off a miracle that big would require a True Faith
score so high that probably nobody alive has it.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"David Johnston" <rgormannospam@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:40b9673e.45472095@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:45:11 -0600, "David Prokopetz"
> <sirbob@penguinking.com> wrote:
>
> >"Trashdog" <wolfofeire@Pantshotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:k25uc.7611$oh7.4381@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> >> "William" wrote
> >> <snip>
> >> > A minor detail that doesn't matter to a Mage at all.
> >>
> >>
> >> Right, but the OP said WoD, not Mage.
> >
> >Then it entirely depends on whether magic can emulate True Faith in your
> >campaign (since water blessed by a guy with a True Faith score *does* fry
> >vampires, even if he otherwise has no mojo at all).
> >
>
> However to pull off a miracle that big would require a True Faith
> score so high that probably nobody alive has it.

Hence why I said "whether magic can emulate True Faith" - we're kind of
assuming it has to be a mage jacking around with reality to pull it off,
since nobody is going to have the mojo to do it *legitimately*. 😉

- David Prokopetz.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

James Stein wrote:

> The believer certainly believes it's external, yes. But last I read, True
> Faith operates entirely dependant on what the believer's paradigm is - one
> can be a True Believer of any given theology (though admittedly, I'm
> thinking of the TF write-up at the back of V😀A).

Different colored filters over a flashlight produce different colored
flashlight beams.

Does this mean the filters produce the light?
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"James Stein" <NoSpamForMeThanks@si.rr.com> wrote in message
news:uCouc.67051$mX.21713162@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "David Prokopetz" <sirbob@penguinking.com> wrote in message
> news:2hudepFgjkp0U1@uni-berlin.de...
> > "David Johnston" <rgormannospam@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
> > news:40b9673e.45472095@news.telusplanet.net...
> > > On Sat, 29 May 2004 20:45:11 -0600, "David Prokopetz"
> > > <sirbob@penguinking.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >"Trashdog" <wolfofeire@Pantshotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >news:k25uc.7611$oh7.4381@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> > > >> "William" wrote
> > > >> <snip>
> > > >> > A minor detail that doesn't matter to a Mage at all.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Right, but the OP said WoD, not Mage.
> > > >
> > > >Then it entirely depends on whether magic can emulate True Faith in
> your
> > > >campaign (since water blessed by a guy with a True Faith score *does*
> fry
> > > >vampires, even if he otherwise has no mojo at all).
> > > >
> > >
> > > However to pull off a miracle that big would require a True Faith
> > > score so high that probably nobody alive has it.
> >
> > Hence why I said "whether magic can emulate True Faith" - we're kind of
> > assuming it has to be a mage jacking around with reality to pull it off,
> > since nobody is going to have the mojo to do it *legitimately*. 😉
>
> Magic = True Faith.

They can be ideologically similar, given the right paradigm, but they
operate by different metaphysicals laws (as expressed in the form of
game-mechanical systems) - in computing terms, they're like two different
operating systems with identical GUIs.

- David Prokopetz.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:

> Like hell it is. You can use magic to call upon external forces
> if you want to. In fact they have a whole sphere devoted to that.

You're using the internal force to shape that external force to your own
will, though. A person wielding magic is the craftsman. A person using
True Faith is the tool. (And different people weilding different types
of True Faith are different tools, but they're all being used by the
same craftsman.)
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

David Prokopetz wrote:

>"David Johnston" <rgormannospam@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
>news:40b9673e.45472095@news.telusplanet.net...
>
>
>>However to pull off a miracle that big would require a True Faith
>>score so high that probably nobody alive has it.
>>
>>
>
>Hence why I said "whether magic can emulate True Faith" - we're kind of
>assuming it has to be a mage jacking around with reality to pull it off,
>since nobody is going to have the mojo to do it *legitimately*. 😉
>
At least not the pope. 0: )

Which brings up another question. Who has the highest True Faith score
in the Word of Darkness?
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Logomachist wrote:

> At least not the pope. 0: )

> Which brings up another question. Who has the highest True Faith score
> in the Word of Darkness?

Up until Gehenna it was Ferox, a Gargoyle with True Faith 9 who thought
he was an angel.

Gehenna had him traveling with Alia, a dhampir with True Faith 10.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Logomachist" <rob.theplacid@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:40BA14F2.6030503@verizon.net...

> At least not the pope. 0: )
>
> Which brings up another question. Who has the highest True Faith score
> in the Word of Darkness?


George W. Bush Jr.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Stephenls" <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2hupjaFhag13U1@uni-berlin.de...
> James Stein wrote:
>
> > The believer certainly believes it's external, yes. But last I read,
True
> > Faith operates entirely dependant on what the believer's paradigm is -
one
> > can be a True Believer of any given theology (though admittedly, I'm
> > thinking of the TF write-up at the back of V😀A).
>
> Different colored filters over a flashlight produce different colored
> flashlight beams.
>
> Does this mean the filters produce the light?

Wrong analogy. Or rather, right anology, /if/ one assumes that there is a
flashlight and that the believer is a filter. But given the WoD's massive
recurring theme of "Reality is what you believe it to be" (even in Werewolf,
where you actually have big planet-sized Gods, they're really just massive
spirits, and we know that spirits and the umbra as a whole pretty much
depend on human emotion and belief, or else they wither and die away), you'd
have a hell of a time proving that there Believer in question isn't both
flashlight and filter.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

James Stein wrote:

> Wrong analogy. Or rather, right anology, /if/ one assumes that there is a
> flashlight and that the believer is a filter. But given the WoD's massive
> recurring theme of "Reality is what you believe it to be" (even in Werewolf,
> where you actually have big planet-sized Gods, they're really just massive
> spirits, and we know that spirits and the umbra as a whole pretty much
> depend on human emotion and belief, or else they wither and die away), you'd
> have a hell of a time proving that there Believer in question isn't both
> flashlight and filter.

Which is why in Mage, True Faith only appears in the Celestial Chorus
revised Tradition Book, and even then it's a sidebar bundled with the
play option "The Choristers are right, there is a One Above, and
Choristers use True Faith instead of Magic."

In Vampire, which is where True Faith originates, there definitely is a
One Above, and He or She cursed Caine. Taken as a whole, the WoD has a
flashlight. Mage's interpretation of it, through Judgement, is that the
One above is the One, who exists only in the future past Ascension, and
who projects Its power backwards in time to ensure Its own creation.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"James Stein" <NoSpamForMeThanks@si.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4Nouc.102112$Nn4.21577529@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> "Logomachist" <rob.theplacid@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:40BA14F2.6030503@verizon.net...
>
> > At least not the pope. 0: )
> >
> > Which brings up another question. Who has the highest True Faith score
> > in the Word of Darkness?
>
> George W. Bush Jr.

If he bought it with starting freebies and points from flaws, that'd
certainly explain a lot...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Gieljan de Vries" <gieljanBZZdeBZZvries@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:2huk87FgklhdU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "James Stein" <NoSpamForMeThanks@si.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4Nouc.102112$Nn4.21577529@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Logomachist" <rob.theplacid@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:40BA14F2.6030503@verizon.net...
> >
> > > At least not the pope. 0: )
> > >
> > > Which brings up another question. Who has the highest True Faith score
> > > in the Word of Darkness?
> >
> > George W. Bush Jr.
>
> If he bought it with starting freebies and points from flaws, that'd
> certainly explain a lot...

I don't care how many times he bought "Deranged," some things are
inexcusable.
 
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