Home network with multiple routers

[likes0079]

Hello Toms,

I am trying to set up my home network. For now it looks like this.
Current setup
The discontinuous line is wireless, I cannot have wire in between the two routers. I was hoping to use wired connection but I couldn't, the latency suffers a little bit from wireless connection therefore I am thinking to use the method shown below

Is the anyway to set everything within the same network in this config?
Ideal setup

 

[USAFRet]

Why the need for multiple routers?
And no, you can't do it like that if your modem is actually just a Modem.

 

[rhysiam]

Not usually, with standard home-equipment.

However, is there a specific reason you need two routers? Why have you got the second router? You can use one of the routers just as a simple network switch and wireless access point (rather than a router) and it will work. You just don't use the WAN port on that router (and do some extra config - disable DHCP, etc). Then all devices will be on the same network and have Internet. Is that what you're trying to do?

 

[firefoxx04]

I use two routers as well. The second router needs to have DHCP disabled. Set the routers static IP to something in the same subnet as the first router. Then connect the second router to the first router via the LAN ports on both routers.

This will cause the second router to act as a switch. I do this same thing in order to have a router in my up-stairs and basement of my home. It works well. You can also enable wifi on both routers, just make sure the SSID and authentication is identical between the two.


You can alternatively connect the second router to the first router via the second router's wan port. The second router will need to be on a different subnet than the first and it will need DHCP to be on. This works fine but it makes it tricky when it comes to port forwarding. I dont recommend this setup.

 

[likes0079]

Wow thx for the quick answer,
I know I dont use the WAN port, but the LAN when connecting multiple APs.

I have to do this because of the structure of the building I live in. Wires and some objects are pre-built, and I can't modify them.

The modem i have is just a Modem. I guess I can do this and test the latency between the HTPC and two PCs comparing to what I have now.
Possible solution

 

[likes0079]

I use two routers as well. The second router needs to have DHCP disabled. Set the routers static IP to something in the same subnet as the first router. Then connect the second router to the first router via the LAN ports on both routers.

This will cause the second router to act as a switch. I do this same thing in order to have a router in my up-stairs and basement of my home. It works well. You can also enable wifi on both routers, just make sure the SSID and authentication is identical between the two.


You can alternatively connect the second router to the first router via the second router's wan port. The second router will need to be on a different subnet than the first and it will need DHCP to be on. This works fine but it makes it tricky when it comes to port forwarding. I dont recommend this setup.

I can't do this because I cannot have wire between the two routers. That's why I have them in wireless, but I want good latency.

 

[rhysiam]

Wow thx for the quick answer,
I know I dont use the WAN port, but the LAN when connecting multiple APs.

I have to do this because of the structure of the building I live in. Wires and some objects are pre-built, and I can't modify them.

The modem i have is just a Modem. I guess I can do this and test the latency between the HTPC and two PCs comparing to what I have now.
Possible solution

No, no, it's simpler than that and you don't need to buy any additional hardware. You just need to connect your second router via a LAN not a WAN port and get the config right.

Check to see if your routers have an "Access Point" operation mode, rather than a Router - that will do the bulk of the setup for you. If not, do the following:
1) give the second router a free IP address on the network of the first router (make sure it's not in the DHCP range - happy to give more info if this make no sense to you)
2) disable DHCP on the second router
3) unplug the second router's WAN port
4) plug the second router's LAN port into a free LAN port on the first router
5) restart any devices attached to the second router

Done - it should all work.

 

[rhysiam]

I can't do this because I cannot have wire between the two routers. That's why I have them in wireless, but I want good latency.

Hang on - so your "modem" in your original picture is actually a "wireless router", and your "routers" are connected to it via WIFI? Not cable?

 

[USAFRet]

Wow thx for the quick answer,
I know I dont use the WAN port, but the LAN when connecting multiple APs.

I have to do this because of the structure of the building I live in. Wires and some objects are pre-built, and I can't modify them.

The modem i have is just a Modem. I guess I can do this and test the latency between the HTPC and two PCs comparing to what I have now.
Possible solution

No, that won't work.
You need 1 router directly from the modem. This router does router things. DHCP, primarily. Delivers internal IP addresses to everything inside the LAN.
The modem serves up one and only one IP address. A router takes care of everything else.

Modem-> router-> other devices.
In a residential situation, there is rarely a need for more than one router.

 

[likes0079]

I can't do this because I cannot have wire between the two routers. That's why I have them in wireless, but I want good latency.

Hang on - so your "modem" in your original picture is actually a "wireless router", and your "routers" are connected to it via WIFI? Not cable?

ASUS RT AC66U, has a bridging mode. Sry I honestly dont know the right terminology.

 

[likes0079]

Wow thx for the quick answer,
I know I dont use the WAN port, but the LAN when connecting multiple APs.

I have to do this because of the structure of the building I live in. Wires and some objects are pre-built, and I can't modify them.

The modem i have is just a Modem. I guess I can do this and test the latency between the HTPC and two PCs comparing to what I have now.
Possible solution

No, that won't work.
You need 1 router directly from the modem. This router does router things. DHCP, primarily. Delivers internal IP addresses to everything inside the LAN.
The modem serves up one and only one IP address. A router takes care of everything else.

Modem-> router-> other devices.
In a residential situation, there is rarely a need for more than one router.

Thank you. So does this mean that everything after the first router should be DHCP disabled?

 

[rhysiam]

ASUS RT AC66U, has a bridging mode. Sry I honestly dont know the right terminology.

No need to apologise, we just can't help unless we understand your set up.

Basically what you want is ONE network, which means ONE router running DHCP - let's call that your primary (and only!) "router" . Then you want all devices connected either directly, or daisy chained together to that primary router. All other devices should be on the same network (i.e. all have IP addresses on the same network), and have DHCP disabled. Don't use any other "WAN" ports other than the one on your primary router.

 

[USAFRet]

Wow thx for the quick answer,
I know I dont use the WAN port, but the LAN when connecting multiple APs.

I have to do this because of the structure of the building I live in. Wires and some objects are pre-built, and I can't modify them.

The modem i have is just a Modem. I guess I can do this and test the latency between the HTPC and two PCs comparing to what I have now.
Possible solution

No, that won't work.
You need 1 router directly from the modem. This router does router things. DHCP, primarily. Delivers internal IP addresses to everything inside the LAN.
The modem serves up one and only one IP address. A router takes care of everything else.

Modem-> router-> other devices.
In a residential situation, there is rarely a need for more than one router.

Thank you. So does this mean that everything after the first router should be DHCP disabled?

Yes. Let the one main router do that DHCP stuff. Any other router gets dumbed down to be just a switch/Access Point.

 

[likes0079]

Thank you all, with an update, I just contact the building manager.

According to him, there's a modem from the local ISP, and a switch D-LINK DGS 1016D.
And from that switch, it goes to all other rooms.

There's two ports on that switch I can use. Each goes to a room.

For now, A port connects to one of my router, and it bridges to the second one wirelessly, so the location of bridging one use LAN ports.

Could it still be done by maybe config the switch?
So the two rooms of mine can use exactly the same network with all wired connection.

 

[USAFRet]

Thank you all, with an update, I just contact the building manager.

According to him, there's a modem from the local ISP, and a switch D-LINK DGS 1016D.
And from that switch, it goes to all other rooms.

There's two ports on that switch I can use. Each goes to a room.

For now, A port connects to one of my router, and it bridges to the second one wirelessly, so the location of bridging one use LAN ports.

Could it still be done by maybe config the switch?
So the two rooms of mine can use exactly the same network with all wired connection.

Ahhh...more info.

That is a very dangerous setup.
You and everyone else in the building, is on the same LAN.

Not much different than what is in my house:
Modem/Router ->switch->multiple rooms and devices.
However....this is all mine. I have no worries about 'other people'.

 

[rhysiam]

Yeah - unfortunately that means you really need a router between your computers and the building's network. That means you'll end up with double NAT, which is usually fine but can cause issues from time to time, especially if you're trying to connect to a VPN. But that's the only simple way to safely separate your computers from your neighbours, which you definitely want to do.

So does your HTPC need to talk to other computers on your network or vice-versa? Or does it just need the Internet?

If the HTPC just needs the Internet - and it has a network port near it, why not just use one of your routers for it (WAN to building, LAN to HTPC), and then another router with a similar set up for your other computers?

 

[likes0079]

AHH I see, I need the HTPC to talk to other devices constantly.
I will try to config the switch first or try to add a router or another switch, see if i can work around it

 

[rhysiam]

AHH I see, I need the HTPC to talk to other devices constantly.
I will try to config the switch first or try to add a router or another switch, see if i can work around it

OK, so you're back to our suggestions above then. Choose one primary router which has the WAN port to the building's cable. Then all other wireless & routers need DHCP turned off, put on the same IP address range (outside your DHCP range) and all use LAN (not WAN) connectors.

That'll give you what you want. Though you just need to remember for future that VPNs might fail. Also you wont be able to port forward if you ever want to do that. But otherwise it should work.

 

[likes0079]

Thank you all for the input and suggestion.
I finally had it done last night by adding the main router in between the modem and my own switch.
So it becomes Modem->Router->switch->two APs & some sockets->end nodes
I was allowed to use my own switch in this case, the building has their own channeling switch before it even comes to my floor, so I asked them to nicely re-route the network cable for me.

The only downside is now I'd need to buy a new router to replace the one I throw in between Modem and switch

 

[AnorexicSeal]

You can essentially, if there is no way for you to connect them using an ethernet cable. In my home I have almost the same set up as you do. Here is what I have noticed. When a user is connected to the router that has the NAS for streaming media it is faster than it is if it was connected to the main router. I know ping will go from 0 to 5 ms ping. If you ping from one router to the other
I am using DDWRT on both routers since it is easy to do a repeater bridge and it is easier for me to manage, also i am able to port forward using the main router.

 

[likes0079]

You can essentially, if there is no way for you to connect them using an ethernet cable. In my home I have almost the same set up as you do. Here is what I have noticed. When a user is connected to the router that has the NAS for streaming media it is faster than it is if it was connected to the main router. I know ping will go from 0 to 5 ms ping. If you ping from one router to the other
I am using DDWRT on both routers since it is easy to do a repeater bridge and it is easier for me to manage, also i am able to port forward using the main router.

Thx for the tips.
I think the fundamental problem is that I must let all the end nodes to be within the same LAN first.
Buying an NAS with router/AP function sounds a lot more pricer than just buying a router.