Question How can I tell if the PSU is running hot?

rbogomolec

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HW monitor doesn't give me any stats on my PSU, so I presume that my PSU doesn't have any sensors. When I play for 2 hours and then shut down the PC and immediately go to open the PC case (after unplugging it from the power source ofc) and then I touch the side of the PSU case - it's not hot. In contrast to that, the back of my GPU is hot to the touch. Is this a legit way to check your PSU temps, or can it still mean that somewhere inside its case there's a super-hot component that's overheating when I play?
 

Aeacus

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Is this a legit way to check your PSU temps

There are some digital PSUs, who do feed their telemetry to the software. E.g Corsair AXi to Corsair iCUE software.
Other option would be putting temp probe on top of the PSU. But never inside the PSU.

When I play for 2 hours and then shut down the PC and immediately go to open the PC case (after unplugging it from the power source ofc) and then I touch the side of the PSU case - it's not hot.

Why do you think the PSU casing should be hot in the first place? :unsure:

In contrast to that, the back of my GPU is hot to the touch.

Normal behavior since for many GPUs, the backplate also acts as a heatsink.

or can it still mean that somewhere inside its case there's a super-hot component that's overheating when I play?

What makes you think that something is overheating inside your PC?

Oh, full system specs, including PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?
 
HW monitor doesn't give me any stats on my PSU, so I presume that my PSU doesn't have any sensors. When I play for 2 hours and then shut down the PC and immediately go to open the PC case (after unplugging it from the power source ofc) and then I touch the side of the PSU case - it's not hot. In contrast to that, the back of my GPU is hot to the touch. Is this a legit way to check your PSU temps, or can it still mean that somewhere inside its case there's a super-hot component that's overheating when I play?
Just run some benchmark program for few minutes and hold hand at the place where PSU exhausts air. It shouldn't be much warmer than room temperature. 5-10c warmer at most. For more precise measurement you could use a room thermometer few CM away from that place.
 
HW monitor doesn't give me any stats on my PSU, so I presume that my PSU doesn't have any sensors. When I play for 2 hours and then shut down the PC and immediately go to open the PC case (after unplugging it from the power source ofc) and then I touch the side of the PSU case - it's not hot. In contrast to that, the back of my GPU is hot to the touch. Is this a legit way to check your PSU temps, or can it still mean that somewhere inside its case there's a super-hot component that's overheating when I play?

What would you do if you thought it was "overheating"?

Game less?

Buy a new PSU?

Attempt to cool the existing PSU?

Do nothing different and wait for developments?
 
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rbogomolec

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There are some digital PSUs, who do feed their telemetry to the software. E.g Corsair AXi to Corsair iCUE software.
Other option would be putting temp probe on top of the PSU. But never inside the PSU.



Why do you think the PSU casing should be hot in the first place? :unsure:



Normal behavior since for many GPUs, the backplate also acts as a heatsink.



What makes you think that something is overheating inside your PC?

Oh, full system specs, including PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?
Just asking for a general way how to know if the PSU is ok, that's all. I do know how to monitor all the other stuff and how warm all the other components should be. I don't think the PSU is overheating, but I'd like to know how to make sure. The PSU is a Seasonic 850W B12-BC-850, 80 PLUS Bronze, I bought it new. My RX 6800 XT draws below 200W and my i5 9400f is under 100W (I've undervolted them both). I do like to keep an eye on my components stats, but like I said, I can't monitor the PSU through an app like I do with all the other stuff.
 

Aeacus

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but I'd like to know how to make sure.

Not all can be monitored and with PSUs, to make sure it doesn't go sky high;
#1 Buy good quality PSU.

Your PSU, despite being Seasonic, isn't that great. It's actually one of the poorer ones that has Seasonic name on it.
For 2nd opinion, your PSU sits in Tier B, low-priority unit,
PSU Tier list: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

While what i'd suggest to use (and am using myself), would be anything from Tier A.

#2 would be using true/pure sine wave UPS, so that the electricity grid errors (brownouts, blackouts, surges etc) won't damage your PSU. I have UPSes in use, one UPS per PC.

I do like to keep an eye on my components stats

Even when you can see some telemetry of your hardware, there is 0 telling on their condition. E.g case fans. For those, you can only see the RPM they are spinning at, but it won't tell you nothing about the reminding of their lifespan.

Just asking for a general way how to know if the PSU is ok, that's all.
General signs of PSU being an issue:
* system reboots or shuts down unexpectedly, especially when higher load is put on (e.g gaming).
 

rbogomolec

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Not all can be monitored and with PSUs, to make sure it doesn't go sky high;
#1 Buy good quality PSU.

Your PSU, despite being Seasonic, isn't that great. It's actually one of the poorer ones that has Seasonic name on it.
For 2nd opinion, your PSU sits in Tier B, low-priority unit,
PSU Tier list: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

While what i'd suggest to use (and am using myself), would be anything from Tier A.

#2 would be using true/pure sine wave UPS, so that the electricity grid errors (brownouts, blackouts, surges etc) won't damage your PSU. I have UPSes in use, one UPS per PC.



Even when you can see some telemetry of your hardware, there is 0 telling on their condition. E.g case fans. For those, you can only see the RPM they are spinning at, but it won't tell you nothing about the reminding of their lifespan.


General signs of PSU being an issue:
* system reboots or shuts down unexpectedly, especially when higher load is put on (e.g gaming).
Cool, tnx. Yeah I know that my PSU is the cheapest Seasonic, but the reviews and testing that I watched were all pretty good. I'm not pushing my machine hard, like I said, my GPU doesn't go above 200W and the CPU doesn't go above 100W even when gaming. The PSU is 850W, so I think it'll do just fine. The last two years I did more intense gaming on an even cheaper no name PSU without any problems 😅
 

Aeacus

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Yeah I know that my PSU is the cheapest Seasonic

Not the cheapest actually. There are cheaper Seasonic units out there.

Same is, where i can't say that i have the most expensive Seasonic unit in use. Sure, in 600W range, my Seasonic PRIME TX-650 is the most expensive Seasonic unit you could buy (also the best) :sol: , but overall, Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 is far more expensive.

In the past, i've used:
Seasonic S12II-520
Seasonic M12II-850 EVO
And now:
Seasonic Focus+ 550 80+ Platinum (aka FOCUS PX-550) - AMD build
Seasonic PRIME Ultra 650 80+ Titanium (aka PRIME TX-650) - Haswell build
Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium (aka PRIME TX-650) - Skylake build
:vip:

The PSU is 850W, so I think it'll do just fine.

Over-provisioning with wattage doesn't make mediocre quality PSU good quality. Sure, your PSU doesn't see any load over 50% of what it is capable of, but PSUs doesn't just die when load on them is 100+%. Most PSUs die far before load reaches even 60%. Instead, due to the age, cheaper components give way and "poof". You'll see magic smoke from PSU.

The last two years I did more intense gaming on an even cheaper no name PSU without any problems 😅

That, actually, is pushing your luck.

For example, some people drive drunk, never had any accidents. <- Does this mean it's safe to drive drunk? Just because one bloke got lucky? :unsure:
 

rbogomolec

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Not the cheapest actually. There are cheaper Seasonic units out there.

Same is, where i can't say that i have the most expensive Seasonic unit in use. Sure, in 600W range, my Seasonic PRIME TX-650 is the most expensive Seasonic unit you could buy (also the best) :sol: , but overall, Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 is far more expensive.

In the past, i've used:
Seasonic S12II-520
Seasonic M12II-850 EVO
And now:
Seasonic Focus+ 550 80+ Platinum (aka FOCUS PX-550) - AMD build
Seasonic PRIME Ultra 650 80+ Titanium (aka PRIME TX-650) - Haswell build
Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium (aka PRIME TX-650) - Skylake build
:vip:



Over-provisioning with wattage doesn't make mediocre quality PSU good quality. Sure, your PSU doesn't see any load over 50% of what it is capable of, but PSUs doesn't just die when load on them is 100+%. Most PSUs die far before load reaches even 60%. Instead, due to the age, cheaper components give way and "poof". You'll see magic smoke from PSU.



That, actually, is pushing your luck.

For example, some people drive drunk, never had any accidents. <- Does this mean it's safe to drive drunk? Just because one bloke got lucky? :unsure:
Idk, I really feel that when it comes to PC builds, everyone will just advise you to buy the expensive stuff (even the most expensive stuff, if you can). Otherwise they will all tell you that you're running some risks or losing performance or something. I had people on this very forum tell me that my i5 9400f will be a bottleneck for my RX 6800 XT (just 6 threads, 9th generation, etc) and that I need to upgrade. They were partially right. My CPU ran harder than before and it got hotter than before. But then I undervolted it (running stable at -125mV) and now the most load I've seen so far was on Shadow of Tomb Raider in the crowded villages where the cores run at 75% and the temps are around 50-55'C. Other that than it's always around 40% cores and 40-45'C temps. Not to mention that I don't have any extra fans anywhere in the PC case and that the CPU fan is the bad stock cooler. I'm gaming on 4k, 60fps cap, all high settings (except shadows to medium). I think I'll risk having a mediocre PSU for my casual 1-2h daily gaming sessions. I only play casual single player games and I usually stay away from those super-intesive big titles cuz I don't like most of those games anyway. So I really don't see why I should gear up the same as someone who is playing Battlefield or Cyberpunk on ultra settings 8h per day. I do agree that you shouldn't buy the cheapest stuff, but this one seems just fine. If anything happens, I'll be the first one to start advising people to always buy the expensive components.
 

Aeacus

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Idk, I really feel that when it comes to PC builds, everyone will just advise you to buy the expensive stuff (even the most expensive stuff, if you can).

You can cheap out on every component, except PSU. Since PSU powers everything, it is the most important component inside the PC.

Also, when PSU goes sky high, it has the magical ability to fry everything it is connected to (aka your whole PC). No other component inside the PC has such a powerful magical ability.
Though, with PSUs, the higher the build quality - the less likely it is that PSU takes other components with it, when it goes "pop". Hence why to buy highest quality possible. And highest quality doesn't mean expensive. There are some very expensive PSUs out there that are complete crap. With PSUs, you have to read reputable reviews, to know if they are good or not.

I think I'll risk having a mediocre PSU for my casual 1-2h daily gaming sessions. I only play casual single player games and I usually stay away from those super-intesive big titles cuz I don't like most of those games anyway. So I really don't see why I should gear up the same as someone who is playing Battlefield or Cyberpunk on ultra settings 8h per day.

I also play casually when i have time for that. But for the most part, i use my PC for my work. But that doesn't mean i should settle with average. Far from it.

Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.

Since i care a lot about all my PCs, i won't put a mediocre quality unit into my PC that fails to meet ATX PSU standards set in place for all OEMs to follow, so that the PSUs are safe to use and doesn't damage other components. In fact, i've gone above and beyond regarding PSUs in my PCs.
Some may call me nuts :pt1cable: that i payed €206.80 for a PSU that sits in my Skylake build (Seasonic SSR-650TD) and my latest PSU purchase for Haswell build costed €205.50 (Seasonic SSR-650TR), while i would've been safe with a PSU that costs €80.50 (Seasonic GX-550). While that can be true and i could've saved a lot of money, i feel safe and comfortable that my two main PCs are powered by the best offered by Seasonic.

I won't suggest expensive PSUs in builds when the budget is way restricted. But i still suggest getting a PSU that at least meets all the ATX PSU standards, even if it's fully wired (like Seasonic GC-550).
 
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rbogomolec

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You can cheap out on every component, except PSU. Since PSU powers everything, it is the most important component inside the PC.

Also, when PSU goes sky high, it has the magical ability to fry everything it is connected to (aka your whole PC). No other component inside the PC has such a powerful magical ability.
Though, with PSUs, the higher the build quality - the less likely it is that PSU takes other components with it, when it goes "pop". Hence why to buy highest quality possible. And highest quality doesn't mean expensive. There are some very expensive PSUs out there that are complete crap. With PSUs, you have to read reputable reviews, to know if they are good or not.



I also play casually when i have time for that. But for the most part, i use my PC for my work. But that doesn't mean i should settle with average. Far from it.

Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.

Since i care a lot about all my PCs, i won't put a mediocre quality unit into my PC that fails to meet ATX PSU standards set in place for all OEMs to follow, so that the PSUs are safe to use and doesn't damage other components. In fact, i've gone above and beyond regarding PSUs in my PCs.
Some may call me nuts :pt1cable: that i payed €206.80 for a PSU that sits in my Skylake build (Seasonic SSR-650TD) and my latest PSU purchase for Haswell build costed €205.50 (Seasonic SSR-650TR), while i would've been safe with a PSU that costs €80.50 (Seasonic GX-550). While that can be true and i could've saved a lot of money, i feel safe and comfortable that my two main PCs are powered by the best offered by Seasonic.

I won't suggest expensive PSUs in builds when the budget is way restricted. But i still suggest getting a PSU that at least meets all the ATX PSU standards, even if it's fully wired (like Seasonic GC-550).
ATX standards means +3.3 V, +5 V and +12 V? That's what google said, I really don't know much about it. If you mean this +3.3 V, +5 V and +12 V thing, I actually watched some testing of this PSU before buying it and the results were pretty good. This PSU had +3.2 V, +5 V and +12 V. SO basically just -0.1V on the first one. As for other safety stuff, this PSU has all the OPP, OVP, etc protections and a 5 year warranty. That's why it seems ok to me.
 

Aeacus

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ATX standards means +3.3 V, +5 V and +12 V?

Yes, this is the ATX PSU standard. Namely; safe voltage ranges are:
+12V DC rail - tolerance ±5% ; +11.40V to +12.60V
+5V DC rail - tolerance ±5% ; +4.75V to +5.25V
+3.3V DC rail - tolerance ±5% ; +3.14V to +3.47V
-12V DC rail - tolerance ±10% ; -10.80V to -13.20V
+5V SB rail - tolerance ±5% ; +4.75V to +5.25V

ATX PSU standard tolerances are actually pretty wide and it would take exceptionally bad PSU, not to meet the ATX PSU standard. Still, PSU age does increase the rail tolerance and if brand new PSU barely meets the ATX PSU standard, it soon won't meet it. Hence why to get as tight tolerance PSU as possible, among other things.

Also, was the rail testing done with only PSU? Or was there any meaningful load put on the PSU? Since when the load is on PSU, it really shows it's true colors.
In a similar example: just because you start car engine, doesn't mean car drives fine. And you can not assume the car drives fine, just because you got the engine started.

I actually watched some testing of this PSU before buying it

Care to link the reviews/videos you watched? :unsure:

Anyone can take olliscope and hook the PSU on it, make some tests and call the PSU good. That doesn't mean the PSU is actually good. What it takes, is reputable reviewer, e.g our own in-house PSU reviewer: Aris Mpitziopoulos who has written PSU reviews for Tom's Hardware and who is also founder of Cybenetics (https://www.cybenetics.com/), which puts PSUs through far more in-depth testing than ATX PSU standard specifies.
Or Jon Gerow (aka jonnyguru), who is the de facto guy when it comes to PSUs. jonnyguru has reviewed loads of PSUs in his years and he is currently working at Corsair as director of PSU engineering.
Other reputable PSU reviewers include, but are not limited to, are: Steve Burke (GamersNexus), Hardware Secrets, PC Perspective, [H]ard OCP, AnandTech, KitGuru, Tech Power Up.

So, when it comes to PSU, it must have:
* official specs site
* review by reputable reviewer (preferably several reviews by several reputable reviewers)

Good to haves are:
* cybenetics report
* long warranty
* high efficiency
* good standing in PSU Tier list (https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/)
* good PSU brand reputation
* good PSU OEM (the one who made the PSU)

As for other safety stuff, this PSU has all the OPP, OVP, etc protections and a 5 year warranty.

There are 6 protections modern day PSUs have.

Your PSU has: OPP, OVP, OCP, SCP
specs: https://seasonic.com/b12-bc#specification

My PSU has: OPP, OVP, UVP, OCP, OTP, SCP
specs: https://seasonic.com/prime-titanium#specification

So, your PSU is missing UVP (Under Voltage Protection) and OTP (Over Temperature Protection). Here, you can not say that your PSU has "all" the safety stuff.

Oh, and your unit has 5 years of warranty, while my unit has 12 years of warranty. :rolleyes:
At current date and time, anything less than 7 years of warranty isn't considered good. While 10 years of warranty is preferred. And 12 years of warranty is ideal.

Like i said before, your PSU isn't bad. It's mediocre. But since PCs are sensitive electronics, average power supply can cause issues.
 

rbogomolec

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I've watched this guy. At 4:04 you can see the results the PSU gets. Though this is not under load, like you've mentioned.

View: https://youtu.be/U6GNnSEMVUE


Yeah I've figured that it's mediocre, but that's fine by me. I'm not really sure how much of this "PSU destroying your PC" fear is real. The older you get the more you become bothered by all this "what if" stuff, not just in terms of computers. And no matter what you do, you'll never be 100% on the safe side. A friend of mine had his last GPU burned by a random lighting strike, then he bought a whole new rig for around 5000€. I think he got the RTX 4070Ti (not sure anymore, but he told me the price was 2000€). Haven't seen him in a while and last time I heard of him he told me that he had to sent his GPU back to Germany to have it checked and replaced cuz it started malfunctioning after 1 month. Now it's been over a month and he's still waiting to get his GPU back. Bro invested a ton of money into cooling, Gold+ rated PSU and all. No matter how much you pay it's still a lottery sometimes. I'm planning on keeping this PSU for the 5 years that the warranty is valid and then replace it. If I'll even still be gaming in 5 years. 😅
 

Aeacus

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I've watched this guy. At 4:04 you can see the results the PSU gets. Though this is not under load, like you've mentioned.

I have a beef with that video;
This is not a PSU review. What it is, is preview or marketing video.

Proper review includes:
* teardown of PSU (showing innards)
* several tests under load (load regulation, efficiency)
* ripple tests
* hold-up tests
* and a lot more.

What that bloke did say, was claming that the PSU was tested under load. But no data or otherwise proof was shown to us. Just his word that it was done, which i don't believe.

For example, proper PSU review is this:
(my PSU review, by reputable reviewer: Aris Mpitziopoulos),
link: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690.html

I'm not really sure how much of this "PSU destroying your PC" fear is real. The older you get the more you become bothered by all this "what if" stuff, not just in terms of computers.

Not "what if", but "when".

article 1 (results of using cheap PSU): https://www.thesundaily.my/archive/...wer-supply-unit-computer-updated-LTARCH461974
article 2 (why is bad idea to "repair" the PSU): https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lahoma-dies-electrocuted-fixing-computer.html

And some videos too, of nice fireworks;
video 1:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezk9OA7aKOE

video 2:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6snWfd1v7M

video 3:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY27LkiEROg


A friend of mine had his last GPU burned by a random lighting strike, then he bought a whole new rig for around 5000€. I think he got the RTX 4070Ti (not sure anymore, but he told me the price was 2000€). Haven't seen him in a while and last time I heard of him he told me that he had to sent his GPU back to Germany to have it checked and replaced cuz it started malfunctioning after 1 month. Now it's been over a month and he's still waiting to get his GPU back. Bro invested a ton of money into cooling, Gold+ rated PSU and all. No matter how much you pay it's still a lottery sometimes.

For that, we have warranty. Just because GPU developed a fault, doesn't mean you still have to cheap out on PSU.
If no hardware ever dies, there would be no need for a warranty. But since none of the manufacture is 100% perfect, warranty is included (usually in years), for how long the manufacturer expects their product to last. And if it happens to die sooner than expected, you can replace the component under warranty.

But the thing is, when PSU fries your hardware, PSU warranty will not cover any other component. It only covers the PSU itself. So, even when you save ~50 bucks by going with cheap PSU, and PSU fries e.g your MoBo or GPU, you still have to buy new MoBo/GPU. Also, if you were to try and claim MoBo/GPU under warranty since they got fried, your warranty claim will be canceled, since you were at fault, by using inferior PSU, which killed your hardware.

I'm planning on keeping this PSU for the 5 years that the warranty is valid and then replace it.
Perhaps you'll get 5 years out of your PSU. Hard to tell since your PSU isn't actually made by Seasonic. Instead it's outsourced and made by Helly.

Compared to other PSU OEMs, Seasonic is small and in later years, they like to outsource the cheaper units to other OEMs. So far, all those outsourced PSUs are (far) worse than those which Seasonic makes in-house. Lowest (cheapest) Seasonic unit i'd suggest, would be Core series, since that is made in-house by Seasonic and it has reasonable build quality. Not as good as e.g Focus series, but barely good enough. B12, S12III and other "cheap" series are best to be avoided. (E.g S12III is also outsourced, to RSY.)

All-in-all, this talk of mine is to educate all who happen to read this topic. Since often than not, people buy the PSU based on price, rather than investing a bit of time to see how good of a product they really are getting.

Oh, small test for you as well;
Here are two PSUs, both are fully-modular, 80+ Gold and 850W units,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/JwqPxr,VN6NnQ/

Which of the two would you get for yourself (ApexGaming AG-M850 or Super Flower Leadex V Pro 850) and why?
 

rbogomolec

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Holy crap... Though I gotta say that they were running loud AF before it happened. Mine is pretty quite when under load and also the air that comes out of it isn't hot. And mine is under 20-30% load at most, not more. Plus, mine doesn't cost 1/6 of a top tier, but just 1/2 of it. Looks like these tests were done on the very worst of the cheap PSUs. I kinda expect the PSU fan to be loud or the PC to start behaving funny before the sparks come. It's kinda hard to imagine something extreme like this happening all of a sudden and without any indicators. Since mine is mid tier, we both could be right. It's neither crap nor ultra safe. If my GPU would consume 400W and my CPU 150W and I'd be gaming daily in 5h sessions, ofc I'd go with a better PSU. But I'm doing 2h sessions at max and my undervolted CPU and GPU together barely hit 200W, if not even a bit lower. I don't like fan noise and heat so I always keep low stress on my components. As long as I get my 60fps in 4k and high settings, I don't need to crank up the performance any further. And if a mediocre 850W blows up at 150-200W, then I'm willing to take the consequences. This isn't so much about money as about me trying to see if I was right about not worrying too much about all of this stuff. I've had a really rough time in 2018/2019 with problems and situations way more serious than worrying about video games and PC components. The worst that can happen here is that I lose a 1000€, and that's totally not worthy of my health and my worries. I'm trying not to unnecessarily worry about stuff and this is a good practice. If you get too deep into all this, then you will worry even with the best PSU cuz there's still 1% chance that something will happen. I think I made a good choice with my PSU, but even if I failed, it's not the end of the world. I really don't think that every mid class PSU ends up burning a person's PC. Though I do gotta say that I also get some clicking, but only one click when I trun the PC on or off. But I've read that this is called inrush current bypass relay and it's actually a good thing. At least I hope so. 😅

As for the 2 PSUs, I'll be honest, I'd get the cheaper one. Or better said, I'd invest the 100€ into my Helly Seasonic again cuz I really want to see for myself why people are worrying so much about PSUs. I feel like 90% of them don't even know anything about it, they've just read on forums that if you don't buy an expensive PSU it can catch fire. Also, I really don't think that I'm pushing my PC hard enough to cause a mediocre PSU to fail. A really bad one, maybe. But mediocre means there should be also something good in it. 😉
 

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Looks like these tests were done on the very worst of the cheap PSUs.

Forgot to include the latest PSU meltdown, Gigabyte with their GP-P750GM and GP-P850GM PSUs;
PSU blows up, spectacularly, at 60% load (750W PSU providing 450W), 16:55 in the video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JmPUr-BeEM


This is the 2nd video of GamersNexus, in the series (3 total) about those Gigabyte units. Gigabyte ended up recalling every single unit. So, it's not only some small/no-name brands, but instead even big brands f-up when it comes to PSUs. Gigabyte isn't the only big name who has sold crap PSUs. Others include, but are not limited to: Corsair, EVGA, Silverstone, Enermax, Antec, MSI.

This isn't so much about money as about me trying to see if I was right about not worrying too much about all of this stuff.

Yet, this topic started with your concerns about how to monitor the PSU. :rolleyes:

I really don't think that every mid class PSU ends up burning a person's PC.
And every drunk driver doesn't kill a pedestrian either. Does it justify driving dunk? I don't think so. :unsure:

As for the 2 PSUs, I'll be honest, I'd get the cheaper one. Or better said, I'd invest the 100€ into my Helly Seasonic again cuz I really want to see for myself why people are worrying so much about PSUs.

In the example, i took cheapest 650W unit (ApexGaming), which is borderline crap (Tier D) and top-of-the-line (Tier A) unit (Super Flower). Sure, Super Flower unit costs double what ApexGaming unit costs, but if you want good and cheap PSU, you have to buy 2 PSUs: the cheap one and the good one. This is so with all things, better quality costs more since it uses better made components and manufacture of quality itself (e.g R&D) also costs more.

As of why to worry about PSUs, it can:
1. Fry your PC.
2. Catch fire.
3. Burn down your home.
4. Kill your entire family, yourself included. (Like in the 1st article i linked in my previous post.)

The lower the PSU build quality is - the higher the chance of it happening.

Fried PC can be replaced, burned down home can be rebuilt (albeit at very high cost), but no matter how much money you spend, you can not bring back your family member(s). <- That is the reason why i and many others speak of never cheaping out on a PSU.
But i guess some people don't want to take the warnings and instead want to make the mistakes on their own. But at what cost?

But mediocre means there should be also something good in it. 😉

How much "good in it" would be enough for you? 50% good? 30% good?
All-in-all, like i said, different persons have different standards of what they consider "safe". Some people drive drunk on daily basis without a care in the world. While others deliberately won't drive before 24h has passed since they took a sip of beer, just to make sure they aren't drunk.
 

rbogomolec

Honorable
Nov 16, 2017
97
10
10,545
Idk, I really didn't find anything bad about this PSU in actual reviews. All the bad stuff I heard was only this generic "it's bad cuz it's cheap". I even found a real review. Turns out there aren't much reviews just cuz it's not for the American market. Seems to be available only in Europe. It's in Russian but Google does a good job on translating the whole site.


The 850W edition even withstood 1080W. While still delivering constant and safe voltages and temps. The only bad thing I've found is Chinese capacitors. Yet the max temp that they reached during tests was 80'C and the max they can handle is said to be 105'C, so even the actual cap it's lower, it should still be fine.

As for me being worried, sure, I want to know how to monitor my components. But I'm never ever gonna worry about a PSU burning down my home. Any other electrical appliance could do the same, regardless of what PSU I have. Or, since I live in a flat, maybe my neighbour has a even worse PSU and he'll burn us all down in the end. Like I said, once you start worrying about this kind of stuff, there's no end to it. Btw,consoles also catch fire, and no one cheaped out on their components cuz they are all the same on every unit. While I'm not saying that you aren't right, these warnings are going a little overboard now. I'm pretty sure no one will die just cuz my PSU isn't a Gold+ with OTP. Reading all of this sounds like "there are only 2 types of PSU - the expensive ones and the ones that are cheaper but will kill you or your PC for sure in 100% of cases". There has to be a middle range, and that middle range has to be good enough to carry a casual gamer like me. And I'm gonna prove it to myself, if not to anyone else, that my build doesn't need a super expensive PSU. I see that you know what you're talking about when it comes to PSU, don't get me wrong. But I really feel like that this PSU is enough for me, the reviews on it were good and it functions as it should till now. Also, I expect it to behave strangely before something happens. I really don't think it will catch fire or anything while providing 200W of its max 850W and while the temps and fans are normal. If it does, then I was wrong and I'll go with a better one next time.
 

DSzymborski

Titan
Moderator
You shouldn't ask a question if you're not prepared to hear the answer. Whether or not *you* are comfortable with a mediocre PSU, you can't ask the question and expect everyone else to be OK with one, no matter how much time you spend trying to justify it. To me, the irrelevant amount of money to go from a mediocre PSU to a quality one is well worth it. To you, it isn't. And that's fine, you're an adult and can choose to prioritize thrift over safety. But by the same token, you can't expect other people to buy that justification.

You may feel otherwise, but the people here who are most "obsessed" with quality PSUs are also the ones who have resolved the most issues with people's PCs. Our desire for good quality PSUs came for a reason; many of us have resolved issues with computers numbering in the thousands and the PC graveyards are littered with builds from people who decided their PSU was good enough.
 

rbogomolec

Honorable
Nov 16, 2017
97
10
10,545
You shouldn't ask a question if you're not prepared to hear the answer. Whether or not *you* are comfortable with a mediocre PSU, you can't ask the question and expect everyone else to be OK with one, no matter how much time you spend trying to justify it. To me, the irrelevant amount of money to go from a mediocre PSU to a quality one is well worth it. To you, it isn't. And that's fine, you're an adult and can choose to prioritize thrift over safety. But by the same token, you can't expect other people to buy that justification.

You may feel otherwise, but the people here who are most "obsessed" with quality PSUs are also the ones who have resolved the most issues with people's PCs. Our desire for good quality PSUs came for a reason; many of us have resolved issues with computers numbering in the thousands and the PC graveyards are littered with builds from people who decided their PSU was good enough.
I do know that you guys are way more pro than I am. That's why I always come here when I wanna know something. Sorry if it sounded like I was arguing. I really learned a lot from this conversation. Really, thanks for your time and all the info. I hope someone else will read this thread as well and also learn a lot from it.

I'm not advocating cheap stuff, it's just that I'm 100% sure that this PSU will do a decent job for me. Or at least, it is surely doing a good job right now and so far I don't see any reason to stop using it. While I would never go with the lowest cheap stuff, I've always been a fan of mid tier solutions. Depending on your needs and how you treat your equipment, there really are some gems to be found in the mid tier world of products, not just PC components. I do get your point and all, but I'm the type of guy who has to try and see for himself. The reason why I won't change my mind is cuz this PSU is mid tier and has been working great so far. Also, I'm not putting it under a lot of stress, nor do I ever intend to. In this particular case, it's your fears and bad experiences VS. my trust and good experiences. Both are and aren't justified so far. And in cases like this, I'll always rather see for myself, even if it means failure, then be moved by someone elses thought and ideas. Sometimes I had wins and sometimes I had loses thanks to this attitude. Just like anyone else, no matter what kind of attitude he/she had. So far we're both right about this PSU. Or we're both wrong. Only time and usage will show who was really right. And I'm willing to give it a shot. It's not that I can't take an advise. If someone says "don't go there, there is a wild dog and he'll bite you, look what he did to me" ofc imma not go there. But if someone says "don't go there, there might be a wild dog and he might bite you" imma first ask "why do you think so?". And depending on the answer imma decide whether to turn around immediately, or to risk a couple of steps and see for myself what's really there. In our case here, imma take those steps forward and keep on moving, until I hear some scary barking or see a huge dog in the distance. If that happens, imma pull away, cuz thanks to your warnings, I will know where this leads to. But if I don't see/hear anything concerning, imma just forget about it and keep on moving. Then there's still the 3rd option where the dog creeps up on me and bites my ass without any warning, but despite that, I want to go and see for myself what's really there.
 

Aeacus

Titan
Ambassador
There has to be a middle range, and that middle range has to be good enough to carry a casual gamer like me.

With some things (usually the most important ones), there is no middle range. Either it's perfect/closest to ideal, or not acceptable.

Few examples:
* Food.
Best food is the one that doesn't make you sick. Worst food is the one that kills you when you eat it. While the middle ground food would be the one that makes you sick: vomit, fever, diarrhea etc. Would you eat the middle range food? Since as long as it doesn't kill you, it is good enough, right? Or you think otherwise?
* Engineering, e.g bridge construction.
Most bridges are built to withstand 2-3 times the expected load, so that they won't collapse, even in worst weather situations. Worst bridges collapse either during construction or shortly afterwards. While the middle ground would be a rickety bridge that barely holds up, wobbling when crossing it. Would you allow your family to cross the rickety bridge? It's not like you have a fully loaded semi-truck crossing the bridge, for the bridge to be solid. Your small, casual passenger car is a fraction the weight of semi-truck.
* Medicine, e.g pills.
Rather than buying FDA/EMA certified pills from pharmacy, you'd rather buy sham made pills on the corner of the street? Since that would be middle range when it comes to pills. Won't kill you outright but may not help with the illness you have either. Or it may help. Without you being guinea pig, how would you know, right?

And this list goes on and on, about those products/things, where there is no middle ground. PSUs are one of those things.

but despite that, I want to go and see for myself what's really there.

There's an old saying:
Smart people learn from the mistakes of others.
Average people learn from their own mistakes.
Stupid people won't learn even from their own mistakes.

I take that you're an average person.
 

JeffreyP55

Distinguished
Mar 3, 2015
565
138
19,070
HW monitor doesn't give me any stats on my PSU, so I presume that my PSU doesn't have any sensors. When I play for 2 hours and then shut down the PC and immediately go to open the PC case (after unplugging it from the power source ofc) and then I touch the side of the PSU case - it's not hot. In contrast to that, the back of my GPU is hot to the touch. Is this a legit way to check your PSU temps, or can it still mean that somewhere inside its case there's a super-hot component that's overheating when I play?
 

rbogomolec

Honorable
Nov 16, 2017
97
10
10,545
With some things (usually the most important ones), there is no middle range. Either it's perfect/closest to ideal, or not acceptable.

Few examples:
* Food.
Best food is the one that doesn't make you sick. Worst food is the one that kills you when you eat it. While the middle ground food would be the one that makes you sick: vomit, fever, diarrhea etc. Would you eat the middle range food? Since as long as it doesn't kill you, it is good enough, right? Or you think otherwise?
* Engineering, e.g bridge construction.
Most bridges are built to withstand 2-3 times the expected load, so that they won't collapse, even in worst weather situations. Worst bridges collapse either during construction or shortly afterwards. While the middle ground would be a rickety bridge that barely holds up, wobbling when crossing it. Would you allow your family to cross the rickety bridge? It's not like you have a fully loaded semi-truck crossing the bridge, for the bridge to be solid. Your small, casual passenger car is a fraction the weight of semi-truck.
* Medicine, e.g pills.
Rather than buying FDA/EMA certified pills from pharmacy, you'd rather buy sham made pills on the corner of the street? Since that would be middle range when it comes to pills. Won't kill you outright but may not help with the illness you have either. Or it may help. Without you being guinea pig, how would you know, right?

And this list goes on and on, about those products/things, where there is no middle ground. PSUs are one of those things.



There's an old saying:
Smart people learn from the mistakes of others.
Average people learn from their own mistakes.
Stupid people won't learn even from their own mistakes.

I take that you're an average person.
Yup, average dude right here. Not even offended by that. 😁 But seriously, with some things you gotta just go with the flow. If I allow myself to get all worked up over a PSU that's working fine but is a Helly instead of Seasonic, then I'll soon end up worrying about my car as well cuz it's a normally functioning Hyundai but not a Mercedes. And so on, and so on. I expect to exchange this PSU in 3-5 years and I think it should do fine till then. On the first signs of failure imma replace it ofc, but till then I'm not gonna worry about it. Like I said, losing a 1000€ won't kill me. And I also don't expect the PSU to kill me or my family. I do agree with you that the more expensive ones are better and safer, but I don't think I'm an idiot for giving a shot at this PSU.

But anyway, now we've kinda dropped the technical aspects already and are just trying to make a point. Thank you for your info, I really do appreciate it. Didn't know anything about PSU 2 weeks ago, now I know a lot more. Imma take this risk and live with it cuz I have a different view on things. As for old sayings, here's one from my country:
"An idiot will manage to grow corn even on concrete."😄
Sometimes things work out better for those who don't ponder too much on them.
I'm not gonna take anymore of your time. I do have a favour to ask though. If in the future you come across reviews or videos of this exact PSU failing (and if you'll still remember this conversation) please let me know over this thread. In that case imma replace it asap with something more expensive and safer. A solid proof like that would change my mind in a second, not just about this PSU, but also about this whole mid tier idea of PSUs.
 
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