How come AIO cooled GPU use 120 radiator only for 250-500watts ?

[Tech_TTT]

Hello,

This is really not Logical ,

we all know that we need at least 240 Radiator to overclock a CPU with OC TDP around 140 watts.

How on earth is it possible for a 120 Radiator to keep DUAL GPU Cards @500 watts TDP cool ?
and cards like GTX 1080 ti , Titans @250 Watts as well ? and they overclock too !!!

example :

1- Radeon R9 295X2 : TDP 500watts , Radiator : 120 ONLY !!! TWO GPUS !!!

2- GTX 1080 Ti Hydro , GTX 980 ti hydro , Titan hydro , etc : TDP : 250Watt , Radiator : 120 !!!

now compare this to AIO water cooling I7 K , at 140 watts OC we will need at least 2x120 Radiator...

how is this Logical at all ?

 

[n0ns3ns3]

well, 120 mm radiator is enough to cool the GPU or CPU.
the problem with such setup is the noise. fans have to spin really fast to push enough air to cool the component.
I had my overclcoked i7 + overclocked GTX 1070 on a single 240mm rad. though it was full copper, it was with low FPI (on most AiOs, the rad is mafe of aluminum with very high fin density). It worked fine on thermals. not the best, but well within limits. It was a bit noisy, not a jet engine, but very audible.
So I went through the hassle of adding another 240 rad.

Manufacturers are using 120mm rads on such products simply because it has higher compatibility with cases.
Those "hybrid" cards are also using liquid cooling for the GPU only, so it's less heat to dissipate compared to full cover blocks that actively cool GPU, vRAM and VRM (last one produces significant amount of heat). It's also worth to mention that AiOs radiators are mostly used as exhaust, so the heat is immediately removed from the case. with most air cooling, case fans are responsible for removing hot air from the case.
This solution is definitely better than "reference"/"blower" cooler and allows lower GPU temperature - that allows higher and more stable boost clocks.


so to you question, it is logical for them to do so.
but there are very little use cases where such solution makes sense (considering price) for the end user.
Good custom coolers from major brands (EVGA, Asus, Zotac, GB, MSI) are good enough at much lower price.
the full cover blocks are not much more expensive (if at all) and much better choice if a user already have a loop to connect the GPU to. In the long run, custom loop is even cheaper than AiOs.

 

[Tech_TTT]

well, 120 mm radiator is enough to cool the GPU or CPU.
the problem with such setup is the noise. fans have to spin really fast to push enough air to cool the component.
I had my overclcoked i7 + overclocked GTX 1070 on a single 240mm rad. though it was full copper, it was with low FPI (on most AiOs, the rad is mafe of aluminum with very high fin density). It worked fine on thermals. not the best, but well within limits. It was a bit noisy, not a jet engine, but very audible.
So I went through the hassle of adding another 240 rad.

Manufacturers are using 120mm rads on such products simply because it has higher compatibility with cases.
Those "hybrid" cards are also using liquid cooling for the GPU only, so it's less heat to dissipate compared to full cover blocks that actively cool GPU, vRAM and VRM (last one produces significant amount of heat). It's also worth to mention that AiOs radiators are mostly used as exhaust, so the heat is immediately removed from the case. with most air cooling, case fans are responsible for removing hot air from the case.
This solution is definitely better than "reference"/"blower" cooler and allows lower GPU temperature - that allows higher and more stable boost clocks.


so to you question, it is logical for them to do so.
but there are very little use cases where such solution makes sense (considering price) for the end user.
Good custom coolers from major brands (EVGA, Asus, Zotac, GB, MSI) are good enough at much lower price.
the full cover blocks are not much more expensive (if at all) and much better choice if a user already have a loop to connect the GPU to. In the long run, custom loop is even cheaper than AiOs.

man , look at the AMD 295x2 .. it is 500 watt TDP .. there is no WAY a 120 Radiator can cool 500 watts .. does not have the capacity ...

your i7+1070 are 300watts total ... and you are using 240 RAD lol ...

I really want an answer to this lol

 

[rubix_1011]

The issue is around delta and they accept that running a higher delta on a GPU is still very acceptable vs. on a CPU since GPUs are typically rated for 80-100C load temps anyway. So, in that respect, having 50 or 60C load temps looks 'good' by comparison.

But yes, a 500w TDP rated part using a 120mm radiator is a bit ridiculous, which has been my argument for quite some time. The real selling point is that they are selling you a 'liquid cooled' high performance graphics card which is supposed to make you feel like you're getting a top tier GPU AND it's water cooled to boot.

I say this all the time - Just having liquid cooling doesn't mean it is good liquid cooling.

 

[Tech_TTT]

The issue is around delta and they accept that running a higher delta on a GPU is still very acceptable vs. on a CPU since GPUs are typically rated for 80-100C load temps anyway. So, in that respect, having 50 or 60C load temps looks 'good' by comparison.

But yes, a 500w TDP rated part using a 120mm radiator is a bit ridiculous, which has been my argument for quite some time. The real selling point is that they are selling you a 'liquid cooled' high performance graphics card which is supposed to make you feel like you're getting a top tier GPU AND it's water cooled to boot.

I say this all the time - Just having liquid cooling doesn't mean it is good liquid cooling.

The thing is , it performs very well

see the temps , load 68C and idle 33C

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_r9_295x2_review,13.html

and the noise level is between 38 dba and 43 dba

on tomshardware as well

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-295x2-review-benchmark-performance,3799-17.html

Thermals

The Asetek closed-loop liquid cooler does a fairly good job, though it's only equipped with a 120 mm radiator. A peak GPU temperature of 65 °C is admirable, particularly considering that we couldn't push a single Radeon R9 290X below 50 °C in our aftermarket cooling project.

how is this possible with 120 Radiator only and a 500 watt?

 

[rubix_1011]

I would argue that 68C at load is not 'very well'. The biggest thing that baffles me is that they make a lot of CPU coolers that are AIO's that are 240 or 280 radiator size for a 80-130w CPU but when it comes to a GPU that is 2-3x higher TDP rating, they allocate a single 120, like your original argument.

Comes down to how many mounting spaces someone might have in a case (not many have enough for two separate 2x120 radiators) and that CPU liquid cooling is prioritized over GPU cooling even though thermal loads are higher at stock speeds.

 

[n0ns3ns3]

you are so funny.
R9 295x2 is cooled by both liquid and air. the rad is a bit thicker than "normal" AiOs. together, they can keep the card cool enough. this rad is not cooling 500wats, it gets to cool 400 at most. since older parts are relatively large (older node like 28nm), they are much easier to cool - larger die, more heat transfer at lower delta.

P.S.
my i7+1070 is at least 400watt combined under synthetic load. CPU is ~150-160w, GPU is ~250w (Can't tell exactly since it's power modded). Total system draw from the wall is well over 500w (520-540). so take 70 for PSU, and 50 for RAM and everything else beside CPU and GPU.
The point, is that even at ~1300 RPM, low fpi 240rad was enough to keep it well below any air cooler.
So thick 120 rad with high FPI + fans at 2000 or more RPM can dissipate over 400watts at delta 20C (difference between coolant and air).
that will result in GPU temperature in over 60C. this is too high for liquid whores. mine never reaches even 50C. mostly in 38-45C range depending on room temperature, fan profile and load.

 

[rubix_1011]

I didn't know I was telling a joke.

 

[Tech_TTT]

you are so funny.
R9 295x2 is cooled by both liquid and air. the rad is a bit thicker than "normal" AiOs. together, they can keep the card cool enough. this rad is not cooling 500wats, it gets to cool 400 at most. since older parts are relatively large (older node like 28nm), they are much easier to cool - larger die, more heat transfer at lower delta.

P.S.
my i7+1070 is at least 400watt combined under synthetic load. CPU is ~150-160w, GPU is ~250w (Can't tell exactly since it's power modded). Total system draw from the wall is well over 500w (520-540). so take 70 for PSU, and 50 for RAM and everything else beside CPU and GPU.
The point, is that even at ~1300 RPM, low fpi 240rad was enough to keep it well below any air cooler.
So thick 120 rad with high FPI + fans at 2000 or more RPM can dissipate over 400watts at delta 20C (difference between coolant and air).
that will result in GPU temperature in over 60C. this is too high for liquid whores. mine never reaches even 50C. mostly in 38-45C range depending on room temperature, fan profile and load.

First, no need for such a language okay ? lets keep this civil.

second , there is no way your system is 400watts at all , to say at least !!! even at Max it is no way .

i7+1070 will never reach 400watts .. it will be in the 300-350 range max ...

 

[n0ns3ns3]

@rubix - it was not for you you basically wrote a reply that has same points as mine - cant call you funny without making myself a clown

@Tech_TTT
i was not trying to insult you in any way.
just leave my system out of scope and read the rest.
in short, older GPUs are easier to cool as they had much larger die and they are designed to work at higher temperatures than CPU.
The most significant factor in cooling is the temperature difference.
let's say the coolant is 40C. if the room temperature is 30C, the 120rad will be able to dissipate 150watt, at 20C ambient, it will be able to deal with 300watt.
the above numbers are fictional, but that's how it works. if you double the temperature difference, cooling performance will more than double.
here is the data for EK Predator 140
Nominal cooling performance (fans @ 1500rpm):
ΔT=10K: ~179W
ΔT=15K: ~269W

so,
1. because GPU can tolerate higher temperatures - coolant can be hotter which means much higher heat transfer through rad
2. because GPU have much larger die size, the cooler can absorb much more heat from GPU with lower delta between cooler and GPU.

 

[rubix_1011]

Makes sense, just wasn't entirely sure what was being discussed or debated. I'm always open for a good back and forth, and I know there's more than one way to build a watercooling loop based on user preference. Again, no one has the best single way to do one thing...you can opt to go several different routes.

I would be hypocritical if I were to say I was going to use a Swiftech H220 X2 to cool my son's GTX 770 and an i7 2600, both at stock speeds. I would traditionally wish to add another radiator, but I'm not sure if I want to go the route of doing so for his needs.