Question How Come Everyone Isn't Moving To These?

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Corwin65

Admirable
Right @TJ Hooker , so it isn't really being all that helpful telling me that you failed to locate the same information and assumed those exact links were the ones I was referring to while looking at several dozen different SD card store page's worth of information on that day.

Just here to learn the solution to longterm storage, which type of storage is most secure, pros and cons of each and for the most part learn this by stating what I understand so far. These aren't claims as you say, I am more looking for confirmation of a lot of such details and may be writing them in a manner that can be seen that way (apologies).

If SD cards are not that solution, that's perfectly fine, but please try suggesting something that I can do to actually keep data over decades (or more) as I requested.



Okay so they're very similar technology to SSDs and SSDs are also generally magnetproof/waterproof to an extent. Is that right? The gravity point of dropping SSD vs SD card though does still kinda stand strong. But at the cost of all that speed.

STILL! Speed is semi-irrelevant for this bank-vault type secure data storage that I'm seeking. Is there really nothing to be done for archival storage besides cloning the data to other devices on a somewhat regular basis?

What if I wanted to seal some humanity-crucial data in a 3-inch thick steel chest for 100+ years with an "Open in 2119" tag on it? How can I ensure the survival of the data/devices of that buried chest?
In a hundred years the media might survive but the ability to access that media might not.

Almost seems vacuum sealed paper would be a safer alternative.
 

Kirbyarm

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We already have that.
It's called "the internet".

There are archival DVD said to last "100 years"

That is physically imprinted on the foil layer.
Of course, since we've not had these for an actual 100 years, will they work? Probably....
Definitely not ideal storing terrabytes of personal data on the internet. At least for me personally that option doesn't work. Archival DVDs. interesting. Still a huge pain having to burn all those DVDs for only 4.7GB (or more depending if dual layer etc). Anywhere from 100 - 300 of those discs for 1 TB of data! Interesting knowledge nonetheless!

In a hundred years the media might survive but the ability to access that media might not.

Almost seems vacuum sealed paper would be a safer alternative.
Safer but almost impossible to physically write down all of it for terrabytes of data. How would you write a specifically transparent PNG image to a piece of parchment or paper? Go Back to the Future and call up DaVinci? Haha.. that would be something.
 

USAFRet

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Definitely not ideal storing terrabytes of personal data on the internet. At least for me personally that option doesn't work. Archival DVDs. interesting. Still a huge pain having to burn all those DVDs for only 4.7GB (or more depending if dual layer etc). Anywhere from 100 - 300 of those discs for 1 TB of data! Interesting knowledge nonetheless!
They also come in blu-ray.
https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-98913-M-Disc-100GB-Surface/dp/B011PIJPOC


TB of personal data?
I thought you were referring to "humanity-crucial data", not your family photos.
 

USAFRet

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Safer but almost impossible to physically write down all of it for terrabytes of data. How would you write a specifically transparent PNG image to a piece of parchment or paper? Go Back to the Future and call up DaVinci? Haha.. that would be something.
Don't underestimate the power of print.

After my dad passed away, cleaning the house.
Photo album, with pics of my grandmother back in the 1920's.
Trivially and instantly accessible, no hardware needed.

If, 75 years from now, my greatgrandchildren come across a box with a bunch of microSD cards in it...what would they do with it?

Even now...if you came across of box of 5.25" floppies from 1990 (only 30 years ago), what would you do with them? You have no hardware to read them.
Gonna build up a whole system to maybe read those? Unlikely.
 

Kirbyarm

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They also come in blu-ray.
https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-98913-M-Disc-100GB-Surface/dp/B011PIJPOC


TB of personal data?
I thought you were referring to "humanity-crucial data", not your family photos.
Oh wow, that's very interesting. That's around what $12 USD a disc? So $16 CAD, give or take. So $160/TB for whatever their theoretical "lifetime archival" level of endurance provides. Thanks for making me aware of this. This is kinda what I'm looking for, though I'd prefer something more like a USB which you'll see why in my point below.

Don't underestimate the power of print.

After my dad passed away, cleaning the house.
Photo album, with pics of my grandmother back in the 1920's.
Trivially and instantly accessible, no hardware needed.

If, 75 years from now, my greatgrandchildren come across a box with a bunch of microSD cards in it...what would they do with it?

Even now...if you came across of box of 5.25" floppies from 1990 (only 30 years ago), what would you do with them? You have no hardware to read them.
Gonna build up a whole system to maybe read those? Unlikely.
While your point makes sense and would've held true probably 10-20 years ago as media was drastically changing around then. Now (a lot of) the world is in technological synergy with most widely utilized means for things like data transfer with USB/SATA. We're at the point where something can be globalized super quickly and USB is just too common of a standard to be changed imo so... I highly doubt 100 years from now that USB will be completely extinct without some insanely miraculous technological explosion rendering them incredibly obsolete.
 

Kirbyarm

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So you've stored your precious memories on an archival grade DVD. Will you still be able to buy a DVD player in 20 years time?
Not memories, data. That does raise a good point, but my USB external DVD writer is basically an adapter should that be an issue, which it kind of already is.

Who even installs optical drives to their computers anymore? Not I! That's for sure. However if that is the safest way to store digital data in a locked chest for centuries, it's worth looking into an external USB DVD writer or 3 to be able to access said data.

I definitely trust USB sticking around a heck of a lot longer than DVDs. Plus side for the whole blu-ray DVD scene though is the players are typically backwards compatible.. so as long as we stick with that size for optical discs, it might not phase out as quickly as we'd like to think.
 

Kirbyarm

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Right, but how much smaller can they go before we can't even pinch them between our fingers anymore to plug/unplug them?

While I can see a shift to micro USB happening, still seems unlikely from my perspective. Besides, there's practically an adapter for everything related to electrical technology.. even some really old stuff.

I suppose I'm just a lot less worried about the data being able to be accessed after very longterm storage, but alas, even I can admit you guys are probably right. That's why I come to Tom's Hardware after all, so all you experts can set me straight.

Might be best to just keep up with the times and regularly backup even archival data with current tech. Thanks for the help everyone.
 

USAFRet

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Might be best to just keep up with the times and regularly backup even archival data with current tech. Thanks for the help everyone.
Exactly.
I have data that originally existed on 5.25" and 3.5" floppies, from the late 80's, early 90's.
Pictures from my first digital camera (1998) that saved on a SmartMedia drive. I have a USB adapter for those cards, but I would not count on data saved from 20 years ago to still be readable.

They currently live in a NAS box with 50TB of online storage, and a SSD system drive that is thousands of times faster than the original system and drives that data lived on.

Why should I try to keep a 5.25" floppy drive around?
 

Kirbyarm

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Why should I try to keep a 5.25" floppy drive around?
This is very true. Even I haven't stored media on a floppy in decades and not even on DVDs anytime in the last several years. I don't even install optical drives in my computer builds anymore.

Am I the only one here though that has more faith in humanity's current capabilities in preserving data and 2019-modern methods of accessing said data far into the future?

It would be relatively easy to do if someone (or some company) stayed on top of potentially pre-historic data adapters as time goes on and what not. Hmm.
 

USAFRet

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Yes, there will be some entity around to access a 5.25" floppy (or microSD)
Given enough $$$.

Just like there are companies around today to transfer your old VHS video to DVD or direct download.
Given enough $$$.

Your concept was your personal data, saved on microSD cards for a few decades.
After your are wormfood, and your grandkids come across a little box of microSD cards, what will they do with them?
They will have no device to read them. They have no clue if there is anything valuable, or is it just crazy old grandads french toast recipe.
Unless one of them is an ubergeek who does this for fun, they are unlikely to go through the hassle and cost of trying to get them read.
 

Kirbyarm

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Yes, there will be some entity around to access a 5.25" floppy (or microSD)
Given enough $$$.

Just like there are companies around today to transfer your old VHS video to DVD or direct download.
Given enough $$$.
Like.. I understand your point, and I even agree with it for the most part. But I don't believe we are currently anywhere near as disorganized with our technology as we were several decades ago. The old devices were built with ancient tech/quality and a lot had already broken down so with dwindling numbers and such little organization, this was bound to happen. I feel like we've peaked from those early primitive methods and have stabilized electrical and computer technology at least enough to not make accessing certain media (like USB) cancerous further into the future.

I don't think we'll just let 2015+ tech fade away into such an ultra-hardcore-rare state, such as when comparing USB to a 5.25" floppy. Obviously I could be very wrong about this, as really, any of us could. We can only speculate what is going to happen in the future with predictions, but sometimes I find it fun to explore the possibilities.

5.25" floppies (well before computer technology was so globally popularized), is like finding a needle in a haystack. Finding a USB will be like finding hay in a haystack. So many billions of devices in circulation now.. where are you going to hide them all in 100 years?
 

Spaceghaze

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Guess you could do this, and send it to space, and some how have it come back in a century or so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Seriously though, like all ready more or less stated. It would be have to be some kind of media that could be used in the future, or that media would have to include the hardware to read/show it on a screen if we are talking about saving it for many generations.
 

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