Question How does 7nm actually improve performance for the ryzen 3000 series cpu's compared to ryzen 2000 cpu's?

[zxcer2734]

By performance i also mean if multitasking gets better. I actually was disappointed that the ryzen 3 3200 wasnt 6 cores and 12 threads. Guess the leak was fake. Anyways im planning to build a pc once ryzen 3000 comes out. However i have like a bunch of questions.

1. Whats the difference between the ryzen 3 3200g and ryzen 5 3600g other than 4 cores and 4 threads and 4 cores and 8 threads for the ryzen 5. I do want some multitasking ability and im not sure if the extra 4 threads does benefit in multitasking, does it? Is the cpu faster with 4 extra threads?

2. The title. Im on a really tight budget but im not sure if i should go for the 7nm ryzen 3600 with 6c and 12t.

3. Would the b450m gaming plus be able to hold the ryzen 5 3600. Definitely not getting x570 but i want to know if the motherboard can withstand or cool or support the ryzen 5 3600.

4. What ram speed should i aim for with the ryzen 3000 series? Would 2666mhz suffice or should i get 3000.

Probably no one will answer this thread but if u do i appreciate your help so much and im sorry for having pain in the a$$ questions. Ty

 

[13thmonkey]

1. I believe a better iGPU on the 3400g vs the 3200g.(there is no 3600g) https://www.anandtech.com/show/14523/amd-ryzen-3000-apus-up-to-vega-11-more-mhz-under-150
2. 7nm itself will have an effect, but also the enhanced design has an effect, clock for clock the 7nm processors will be quicker than 12nm, and the 7nm will clock faster and use less power and therefore be cooler.
3. that'll be fine.
4. 3200 minimum, ryzen loves fast ram.

Are you getting a GPU, or do you NEED the iGPU, if you are getting a GPU then go 3600.

 

[InvalidError]

The whole point of extra hardware threads is improved performance (25-40%) at almost no extra silicon cost in more heavily threaded workloads from leveraging more of the CPU cores' often under-used resources.
The IGPs on the 3200G and 3400G are the same Vega8 and Vega11 from the 2200G and 2400G, only clocked a bit higher with the additional benefit of the APU officially supporting faster RAM.
Since DDR4-3000 (and even 3200 sometimes) costs about the same as DDR4-2133, there is no point in settling for anything slower unless you already own the slower RAM or have a good deal on a second-hand set.

For Ryzen 3600 and up, having twice as much L2 and L3 cache along with a few other memory-related architecture tweaks should reduce sensitivity to memory performance by a fair amount. Otherwise, it would be a horrible amount of extra die area overhead for nothing.

I wouldn't worry about it until the chips have actually launched since anything until then is mostly speculation. Let numbers from launch-day reviews speak for themselves and decide from there. Anything we write before then may ultimately get proven wrong due to any aspect turning out worse or better than expected. The biggest unknown IMO is how well the re-structured caches and IF will mitigate the likely increased latency of having to go through the IO die for cores on the other chiplet on 12/16C models, IO and RAM.

 

[13thmonkey]

The whole point of extra hardware threads is improved performance (25-40%) at almost no extra silicon cost in more heavily threaded workloads from leveraging more of the CPU cores' often under-used resources.
The IGPs on the 3200G and 3400G are the same Vega8 and Vega11 from the 2200G and 2400G, only clocked a bit higher with the additional benefit of the APU officially supporting faster RAM.
Since DDR4-3000 (and even 3200 sometimes) costs about the same as DDR4-2133, there is no point in settling for anything slower unless you already own the slower RAM or have a good deal on a second-hand set.

For Ryzen 3600 and up, having twice as much L2 and L3 cache along with a few other memory-related architecture tweaks should reduce sensitivity to memory performance by a fair amount. Otherwise, it would be a horrible amount of extra die area overhead for nothing.

I wouldn't worry about it until the chips have actually launched since anything until then is mostly speculation. Let numbers from launch-day reviews speak for themselves and decide from there. Anything we write before then may ultimately get proven wrong due to any aspect turning out worse or better than expected. The biggest unknown IMO is how well the re-structured caches and IF will mitigate the likely increased latency of having to go through the IO die for cores on the other chiplet on 12/16C models, IO and RAM.

I'm also interested to see if there is oddness associated with >8 cores as two die as used.

 

[junglist724]

The 3200G and 3400G are 12nm. The APUs are a generation behind, just like how the 2200G/2400G/200GE are all 14nm+ while the rest of the 2000 series are all 12nm.

 

[zxcer2734]

1. I believe a better iGPU on the 3400g vs the 3200g.(there is no 3600g) https://www.anandtech.com/show/14523/amd-ryzen-3000-apus-up-to-vega-11-more-mhz-under-150
2. 7nm itself will have an effect, but also the enhanced design has an effect, clock for clock the 7nm processors will be quicker than 12nm, and the 7nm will clock faster and use less power and therefore be cooler.
3. that'll be fine.
4. 3200 minimum, ryzen loves fast ram.

Are you getting a GPU, or do you NEED the iGPU, if you are getting a GPU then go 3600.

im getting a rx570, although 3600 looks really over budget for me so i might get 3400 NON G version if it comes out

 

[zxcer2734]

The whole point of extra hardware threads is improved performance (25-40%) at almost no extra silicon cost in more heavily threaded workloads from leveraging more of the CPU cores' often under-used resources.
The IGPs on the 3200G and 3400G are the same Vega8 and Vega11 from the 2200G and 2400G, only clocked a bit higher with the additional benefit of the APU officially supporting faster RAM.
Since DDR4-3000 (and even 3200 sometimes) costs about the same as DDR4-2133, there is no point in settling for anything slower unless you already own the slower RAM or have a good deal on a second-hand set.

For Ryzen 3600 and up, having twice as much L2 and L3 cache along with a few other memory-related architecture tweaks should reduce sensitivity to memory performance by a fair amount. Otherwise, it would be a horrible amount of extra die area overhead for nothing.

I wouldn't worry about it until the chips have actually launched since anything until then is mostly speculation. Let numbers from launch-day reviews speak for themselves and decide from there. Anything we write before then may ultimately get proven wrong due to any aspect turning out worse or better than expected. The biggest unknown IMO is how well the re-structured caches and IF will mitigate the likely increased latency of having to go through the IO die for cores on the other chiplet on 12/16C models, IO and RAM.

thanks for the answer i am most likely getting the 3400 non G version as the 3600 is way over budget for me. what kind of workloads would benefit from using more threads?

 

[InvalidError]

thanks for the answer i am most likely getting the 3400 non G version as the 3600 is way over budget for me. what kind of workloads would benefit from using more threads?

On a quad-core CPU? Nearly everything. Modern OSes have so much background crap that even single-threaded applications can benefit from SMT simply from not getting pre-empted by the OS as often since there are twice as many execution slots available. Most games have 2-3 major threads and 10+ background threads spawned by libraries, APIs, framework, etc.

The days of quad-core being viable much beyond trivial tasks are numbered.

 

[TechyInAZ]

Yeah Hyperthreading/SMT is a night and day difference in today's world. Pure Quad cores are going away, and can't really do much. But hyperthreaded Quad Cores like the 7700K and 2400G can still keep up impressively well in modern titles.

But a hexa core is gong to last you way longer than a quad core. So definitely go Ryzen six core if possible.

With Ryzen 3000, we don't know all the benchmarks and stuff yet, so we're not sure exactly what memory to recommend. For a budget system, I'd assume 3466mhz is going to be the sweet spot.

 

[InvalidError]

With Ryzen 3000, we don't know all the benchmarks and stuff yet, so we're not sure exactly what memory to recommend. For a budget system, I'd assume 3466mhz is going to be the sweet spot.

With 16MB (up from 8MB) of L3 cache per quad-core CCX, I'd imagine Zen 2 is going to be significantly less dependent on fabric and memory bandwidth. I'd expect anything from the 3800X down to still be perfectly fine with much cheaper 3000-3200MT/s.

 

[TechyInAZ]

I hope so Invalid!!

 

[13thmonkey]

I hope so Invalid!!

This is suggesting that coffee lake is memory sensitive (which is a surprise), the performance gap drops away when coffee lake's memory speed is reduced to match ryzens.

 

[zxcer2734]

On a quad-core CPU? Nearly everything. Modern OSes have so much background crap that even single-threaded applications can benefit from SMT simply from not getting pre-empted by the OS as often since there are twice as many execution slots available. Most games have 2-3 major threads and 10+ background threads spawned by libraries, APIs, framework, etc.

The days of quad-core being viable much beyond trivial tasks are numbered.

Ill try get the zen 2 3600 as its really promising with those specs. But if i cant afford it i will buy the 3400 as you said would benefit my system more with the 4 extra threads. Do you think that 4 cores can still be futureproof for like 2 years+?

 

[zxcer2734]

With 16MB (up from 8MB) of L3 cache per quad-core CCX, I'd imagine Zen 2 is going to be significantly less dependent on fabric and memory bandwidth. I'd expect anything from the 3800X down to still be perfectly fine with much cheaper 3000-3200MT/s.

Do you think that the 3400 would be less memory reliant then the 2400? Even if its a little a bit.

 

[InvalidError]

Do you think that the 3400 would be less memory reliant then the 2400? Even if its a little a bit.

Any APU will be heavily dependent on memory speed for the IGP. CPU-wise, the APUs are single-CCX so the IF clock isn't as much of a factor there. You still have Zen on the 2400 vs Zen+ on the 3400, so the 3400 should get a slight edge in everything all else being equal.