How I long for the days when this group had other physics ..

G

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Random thought ensues.

Hyperspace is a stock concept in science fiction. In real life, the
universe is a big place... so big that even moving at the speed of
light, you're going to slowly to get anywhere in a reasonable (to human
perceptions) span of time. And don't forget the absolutely insane
amounts of energy required to rev a ship up to even .5c...

In fiction, hyperspace cheats these problems by moving through another
dimension where different rules apply. Common variations include
hyperspace being purely Newtonian (with no "cosmic speed limit"), or all
points being contiguous in hyperspace, so you just jump into hyperspace
from Earth and immediately jump out again on Alpha Centauri. Larry Niven
has a slightly different take: In his hyperspace, there's only one
speed, and you can't stop, so a voyage from point A to point B always
takes the same amount of time, no matter how fast or slow your ship.
Asimov's hyperspace is of the "jump in, jump out" variety, but there
gravity is a repulsive force: being near a large mass (like the sun)
twists space and makes your path unpredictable. A "faster" ship means a
a better real-space motor (so you can get outside a star's gravity well
more quickly) and better computers (so you can jump more accurately and
thus make fewer corrections).

Though these are ideas of science fiction, they would have real-world
ramifications, and a good author can use these to whip up stories. For
example, robots attempting to solve the mathematics involving Asimovian
hyperspace became catatonic or schizoid, because they couldn't handle
the idea of humans blinking out of existence-- even if they reappeared a
moment later. And in a Newtonian universe, with no limit on propagation,
would have this interesting property: Anything that happens anywhere in
the universe happens EVERYWHERE, simultaneously. (In our world, we're
each individual universes, to an extent-- something that has happened
where I am hasn't happened where you are until my "time cone" reaches you.)

Anyway. The thought: A hyperspace in which the speed limit sets a LOWER
bound, not an upper one. You can move arbitrarily faster than x, but
never more slowly.

Discuss.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Richard Clayton wrote:

>
> Anyway. The thought: A hyperspace in which the speed limit sets a
> LOWER bound, not an upper one. You can move arbitrarily faster than x,
> but never more slowly.
>
> Discuss.

Is a "newtonian" universe.

See, movement is always relative. So objects can have zero movement even
in your hyperspace - they just happen to all be heading in the same
direction with the same velocity with respect to an arbitrary point.
Similarly, you can in practice achieve any other rate of movement with
respect to any other point simply by choosing your point of reference
correctly. The possible points of reference for movement are infinate
and can themselves have any velocity.

William
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

William wrote:

>>
>> Anyway. The thought: A hyperspace in which the speed limit sets a
>> LOWER bound, not an upper one. You can move arbitrarily faster than x,
>> but never more slowly.
>>
>> Discuss.
>
>
> Is a "newtonian" universe.
>
> See, movement is always relative. So objects can have zero movement even
> in your hyperspace - they just happen to all be heading in the same
> direction with the same velocity with respect to an arbitrary point.
> Similarly, you can in practice achieve any other rate of movement with
> respect to any other point simply by choosing your point of reference
> correctly. The possible points of reference for movement are infinate
> and can themselves have any velocity.

I was hoping somebody would pick up on that. Since velocity is always
relative to something else, what would it mean if you had to be moving
at LEAST velocity x when compared to ANYTHING else?

I suspect this would make the universe hyperexpansive, in a
multidimensional way I couldn't even begin to fathom without more math
than I know. (Gieljan, Stayka, where are you?) You also run into some
interesting questions of a Zeno's Paradox nature; frex, if particles A
and C are are moving away from particle D at velocity x, and all three
are colinear, particle A must ALSO be moving away from particle C at
velocity x. Thus A's velocity must be at least 2x with respect to D. Now
what about particle B, also colinear and between A and C?

A <--- B <--- C <--- D

Hmmm. In a universe that's constantly expanding at an infinite rate,
maybe you could "ride the wave" of reality stretching? Jump into your
hyperinflationary universe for an infinitesimal moment, then back out at
your destination...?
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton

"The world needs more Starscream." -- Stephenls
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Richard Clayton" <reZIGclayZIGton@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:33un2sF45a4upU1@individual.net...
> William wrote:

Re: snipped text:
Good compilation of various exotic hyperspaces, but I think you missed
hyperspaces that are highly compressed. Every unique point in ourspace
corresponds with one unique point in such a hyperspace, but distances in the
hyperspace are much smaller than in ourspace. Move an inch there, move ten
miles here. See Star Wars, Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos (kick-ass series,
BTW) and prolly many many more. Right, enough pedantic showing off 😀

> >> Anyway. The thought: A hyperspace in which the speed limit sets a
> >> LOWER bound, not an upper one. You can move arbitrarily faster than x,
> >> but never more slowly.
> >>
> >> Discuss.
> >
> >
> > Is a "newtonian" universe.
> >
> > See, movement is always relative. So objects can have zero movement even
> > in your hyperspace - they just happen to all be heading in the same
> > direction with the same velocity with respect to an arbitrary point.
>
> I was hoping somebody would pick up on that. Since velocity is always
> relative to something else, what would it mean if you had to be moving
> at LEAST velocity x when compared to ANYTHING else?
>
> I suspect this would make the universe hyperexpansive, in a
> multidimensional way I couldn't even begin to fathom without more math
> than I know. (Gieljan, Stayka, where are you?)

Hey man, just lurking about. Dunno about Stayka though, haven't IRCed in
ages. 🙂

Your inflating universe reminds me of ours in a way. After all, Hubble's Law
says that the farther apart two points in our universe are, the more
spacetime between inflates over time. In a way, our universe forces you to
move apart unless you work at staying together. (This not intended as a deep
statement about relationships! ;-) Gravity does the trick of holding stuff
together on galactic cluster-scales and smaller: the Hubble-expansion is
only really a force (effect, actually - no accelerations involved) to be
reckoned with at distances half the universe's radius away.

But I suspect you're talking about actual velocity, not spacetime-inflation.
Modelling that would get hairy real quick...then again, if you can wrap your
head around fermions being phobic about being in the same state or
non-extractable groundstate-energy, I imagine the hyperexpansionistic
universe is thinkable two.
....
Just got a brainwave. What if your hyperspace can house only so many
different objects, one for every spatial dimension in the space. That way,
it can accommodate a series of objects all having a certain minimal relative
velocity. Cool plothooks abound when you start thinking about ships jumping
into the space forcing out other ones. Maybe, on average you can only travel
for a second in the hyperspace before being forced out. Maybe there's a race
in engine-development to determine who gets to force out who. I imagine the
ships need special shielding so the hyperspace's Accountants of Reality
treats every ship and it's crew as one 'particle' instead of counting each
atom separately...ouch...

> Hmmm. In a universe that's constantly expanding at an infinite rate,
> maybe you could "ride the wave" of reality stretching? Jump into your
> hyperinflationary universe for an infinitesimal moment, then back out at
> your destination...?

Hmm, I'm getting visions of what'd happen if you jumped to a point in the
hyperspace a mere Planck-hair's width from where you wanted to be. When you
jumped back, that'd put you in a location far, far from where you intended
to end up. Heisenberg-compensators, part deux?

This enough hairbrained ideas, mr. Clayton? 🙂

Best wishes to you, all of you and yours of course...
Gieljan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

"Gieljan de Vries" <gieljanBZZdeBZZvries@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:340bf7F44n2foU1@individual.net...
> "Richard Clayton" <reZIGclayZIGton@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:33un2sF45a4upU1@individual.net...
> > William wrote:

Blah, blah, blah...

> I imagine the
> ships need special shielding so the hyperspace's Accountants of Reality

Auditors, Auditors, I meant Auditors.

Gieljan