How many gamers out there actually play a game for themselves; avoiding online guides, you-tube, and in-game cheats?

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

I enjoy a good game's story, it's progression, it's hidden artifacts and easter-eggs. I also respect the creators design and the intended availability of features, items, and areas.
It seems to me that using walkthrough's, online threads, user created maps, and in-game cheats totally ruins the whole idea behind that respect and enjoyability.

I see more and more users commenting everywhere that they don't enjoy a game because it's too hard or that it's all about grinding to reach higher levels or that the maps are too big. Meaning they can't find or achieve the highest levels of available items and features until they've actually put in the effort or maybe not at all for not properly exploring.

One instance; recently with Fallout 4 I've seen a great many posts where people are complaining they don't like the game because they can't access all of the settlement options, crafting levels, higher tier power armors, and some of the better "special" armors and weapons. But they've only played through ~10-15 hours of the game. Isn't the point of a game like this to enjoy the exploration and natural progression? I remember seeing those same responses for all the Diablo, Elder Scrolls, STALKER, Witcher, etc games.

If I had to go online to find my way through a game I would just give up in embarrassment that little kids all over the world are making their way through but I couldn't without the help.
I understand though that maybe some games may have fun enough combat or other aspects of gameplay and that you may not care for the inbetween so you cheat your way through to the highest levels just to experience those other aspects. Or maybe your later playthroughs "cheating" to build yourself a specific character.
But, it more seems to me like, "what's the point" of paying for the game and bothering if you're going to take a 100+ hour game and cheat your way through 60+ hours of it.

Maybe it's just because I'm older and remember more clearly and fondly how in all games you had a good chance of missing special features or easter eggs unless you actually worked your ass off for them and went out of your way searching and probing.

No disrespect to those who enjoy the quick click-your-way-through games that don't require much thought or effort. But I just enjoy the difficulty and respect the creator's and developer's intended game progression if it's a good game and wondering how many out there also actually do.

 

[Gam3r01]

If I intend to play a game I will avoid nearly all online content involving it (other than bug fixes, game glitches to the point of not being able to continue, etc)
When I dont play a game, or when I have beaten it I enjoy watching lets plays, not walkthroughs, of games. Im there for the commentary over the gameplay, see how others handled what I did, or to see a game I dont have the opportunity to play.
One great example (of when I had two monitors, cant anymore because dorm desks are tiny) was diablo 3. I would be leveling and gearing on my primary monitor, while watching streams of D3 on the other. Gives you something to do during the hours of grinding and also gives a goal to aim for. What the current meta is, any broken things, etc.
Another example is Rooster Teeth and GTA V. I watched them do lets plays for years before buying GTA V. But they never touched the single player, and only played together in a group. Good, hilarious gameplay and commentary.

 

[James Mason]

Ehh, if a game has any sort of "grindy" elements, usually something like in-game money, I usually cheat my way around that.

And I watch a lot of let's plays of games because typically I don't have the devotion to finish a game or I'm too wary of trying it, or it's a genre I don't enjoy playing, but are actually interesting to watch.

The thing is, some of that "exploration" of old games was because they didn't bother to tell you clearly or properly about some aspects.

The Legend of Zelda can be used as an example of this.
The game doesn't tell you to go into the cave and get the sword, you can go out to the other areas and get killed all you want. Is that good game design, or bad?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

The Legend of Zelda can be used as an example of this.
The game doesn't tell you to go into the cave and get the sword, you can go out to the other areas and get killed all you want. Is that good game design, or bad?

i would say that's always been a much more entertaining type of game design for me. i don't get any satisfaction out of having my hand held and being pointed right toward the next circumstance.
i think of it more as, if i was Link out in the middle of Hyrule with no clue what exactly is going on; would there be arrows or text floating in space out in front of me or magically appearing on my map telling me what to do or would i have to explore the area myself?
to me it feels more like watching a movie instead of playing a game when i'm just following along pressing buttons instead of actually having to experience the situation and figure out the next path on my own.

 

[James Mason]

The Legend of Zelda can be used as an example of this.
The game doesn't tell you to go into the cave and get the sword, you can go out to the other areas and get killed all you want. Is that good game design, or bad?

i would say that's always been a much more entertaining type of game design for me. i don't get any satisfaction out of having my hand held and being pointed right toward the next circumstance.
i think of it more as, if i was Link out in the middle of Hyrule with no clue what exactly is going on; would there be arrows or text floating in space out in front of me or magically appearing on my map telling me what to do or would i have to explore the area myself?
to me it feels more like watching a movie instead of playing a game when i'm just following along pressing buttons instead of actually having to experience the situation and figure out the next path on my own.

Also there's a rather huge element that's been added, 3D. With 2d games it's pretty easy to take in the whole picture, 3D games actually only let you "see" maybe what, 25% of the picture at one time?

Also you have to ask, Why is this game 100 hours? is it actually 100 hours of content or just 100 hours of time wasting?

This is why "Graphics > Gameplay" is such a huge problem with modern games. They look nice, but are virtually soulless.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

Also there's a rather huge element that's been added, 3D. With 2d games it's pretty easy to take in the whole picture, 3D games actually only let you "see" maybe what, 25% of the picture at one time?
Also you have to ask, Why is this game 100 hours? is it actually 100 hours of content or just 100 hours of time wasting?
This is why "Graphics > Gameplay" is such a huge problem with modern games. They look nice, but are virtually soulless.

exactly why i made sure to add "good" in front of the word game. if it's a good game then of course the time spent playing is relevant and not just 3D filler like many have become.

but, what is "time wasting" inside a game? that probably more depends on what type of gameplay and story you enjoy than anything else. i enjoy a detailed environment, great graphics, and good combat but also enjoy huge areas with lots to explore and discover, whether they be directly related to advancing the main story or not. where you may not enjoy the same things and may just watch a video pointing you straight toward the next checkpoint or location to avoid having to put forth the time of actually exploring.

that's basically my main point/question. how many out there these days actually take the time to play through themselves and enjoy doing it - VS - how many just let others play the game for them through videos or walkthroughs and cheats to hurry through?

 

[chimera201]

I only see any guides to check whether it's a bug or for any missable achievements (I don't like to replay games unless it's too good). Don't watch any videos since I have a slow connection. I liked MGSV a lot and I understand why people hated it because all the gameplay mechanics was spoiled by the internet.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

I only see any guides to check whether it's a bug or for any missable achievements (I don't like to replay games unless it's too good). Don't watch any videos since I have a slow connection. I liked MGSV a lot and I understand why people hated it because all the gameplay mechanics was spoiled by the internet.

from my standpoint using walkthroughs to make sure you've acquired "any missed achievements" falls on the other end. sometimes it seems to me you may as well just let others play the game if you're not willing to do the searching and accept things you weren't able to find/achieve. but personally, while I'm playing I get the feelings that if I can't find or haven't found a certain achievement, item, perk, etc that I didn't deserve finding it or that it just wasn't meant to be for my character at that time. it feels more like I'm living a story than just collecting achievements for the outside world to see. i know most others don't think of it that way though.

with so many games out there to play many don't want to take the time like we used to. when there were only 3-4 games a year worth playing it was easier to take your time through them or have multiple playthroughs. these passed 10 years or so with so much out there and so much coming I find myself wishing some pretty good games would hurry up so I could get on to the next. I couldn't even figure how many I've left 1/2 way through to move on to something else. then end up restarting the same game 3-4 times before hitting a lull in good game release dates and actually finishing. and many that never got finished, got erased, and got sold before i got back to them because I knew i wouldn't have the time and "better" games had come around. took me over a year to finally get through Dark Souls 2: SotFS main story and there are still some areas and mini-bosses I know I haven't discovered...one day though I will get back to it whether it's a replay or just finishing off my 100+ hour game.

 

[chimera201]

from my standpoint using walkthroughs to make sure you've acquired "any missed achievements" falls on the other end. sometimes it seems to me you may as well just let others play the game if you're not willing to do the searching and accept things you weren't able to find/achieve. but personally, while I'm playing I get the feelings that if I can't find or haven't found a certain achievement, item, perk, etc that I didn't deserve finding it or that it just wasn't meant to be for my character at that time. it feels more like I'm living a story than just collecting achievements for the outside world to see. i know most others don't think of it that way though.

with so many games out there to play many don't want to take the time like we used to. when there were only 3-4 games a year worth playing it was easier to take your time through them or have multiple playthroughs. these passed 10 years or so with so much out there and so much coming I find myself wishing some pretty good games would hurry up so I could get on to the next. I couldn't even figure how many I've left 1/2 way through to move on to something else. then end up restarting the same game 3-4 times before hitting a lull in good game release dates and actually finishing. and many that never got finished, got erased, and got sold before i got back to them because I knew i wouldn't have the time and "better" games had come around. took me over a year to finally get through Dark Souls 2: SotFS main story and there are still some areas and mini-bosses I know I haven't discovered...one day though I will get back to it whether it's a replay or just finishing off my 100+ hour game.

Exactly. There are too many games to play now and there is no time to replay games any more. Like in Dishonored there is a 'no kills' achievement. If I killed even one person I would have to replay the whole game again just because I killed one person. I do replay games that are short and great though like I replayed Portal 2 five times.