How much does FPS matter?

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Tommy_68

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Feb 11, 2017
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Hello.
Is there any significant difference visually when gaming with 30 FPS and 60 FPS on games like GTA 5?

Is gaming on 45 FPS acceptable?
I will be gaming on a 60 Hz laptop display.

I have had a very weak laptop before this and I never crossed 30 FPS on most games... never even experienced 60 FPS gaming.

Would it help if I game on a 200Hz TV?
 
Solution
JackNaylorPE
1. It's often said you can't tell any difference between this and that but when you are using a monitor that can not display the difference, you are essentially in no position to judge. For example, using a TV to judge, makes the comparison futile.

2. "No one can tell the difference over 60 Hz" is another one. Easiest way to dispel this one is to turn on ULMB on a G-Sync monitor..

3. G-Sync will bring visual improvements down to 30 fps ... at about 70 fps, many folks will prefer ULMB. Freesync starts doing its job at about 40 fps, it has no comparable motion blur reduction technology to ULMB. You won't see screen tearing w/ either option.

4. Next month 4k screens will arrive with Display Port 4 which will allow 144 hz. At...
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TVs are usually not mean for gaming as the repsonse time is usually slower. Many people will tell you that 60fps is noticeably better than 30fps. I have not seen it yet. Most console games are locked out 30fps to keep the resolution good (i.e. Uncharted 4). I really haven't noticed the difference. I play on console and my PC and it looks the same to me. I guess since I'm not LOOKING for it, it doesn't bother me, but that's just me. I'm sure you will get many opinions. If 30FPS wasn't annoying to you, then 45 should be good, and even 60 fps.
 
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The difference isn't in the visual quality. It is in how smooth the game is rendered. The bare minimum you would need is 30 fps but 60 fps in generally considered smooth quality game play. Realistically though, you also need to take into consideration minimum FPS. If your FPS drops too low, even for a second you will experience stuttering and artifacts.

On your screen (@60 Mhz) you can only get to 60 fps rendered but should still try to get a slightly higher fps so dips won't effect your experience.

If you have a GSync screen, 45 fps while not ideal, won't seem as bad because the GSync will smooth out the experience.

I would also guess that if your laptop is barely pushing 30 fps on most games, then GTA V is going to crush it and you'll need to turn down the detail quite a bit to make it playable.

It won't help to push it to a TV. For one, TVs render differently than monitors; so the 200 Hz is different. But more importantly, rendering on your TV will not change the deficiencies in your hardware. You would most likely need to seriously upgrade your graphics solution.
 
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Anything over 60 MHz the eye cannot detect, but this does not mean anything over 60 fps is useless. As the frame rate goes up the input lag goes down resulting in faster reaction times. Do keep in mind that fps is not the only thing that contributes to input lag, internet speed, mouse and key board connections, and storage speed will all influence this.

I had friends at college that would only game on old tvs because they had less input lag then hd tvs.
 
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Oh no no... you got it the wrong way.... Sorry, I did not explain the details. The thing is, I am getting a new laptop next week. The one I have in mind has GTX 1050 and i7 7700HQ. According to youtube gameplays, GTA 5 runs with an average of 45 FPS on high settings. And thats why I asked the question if gaming on 45 FPS is acceptable. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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If my memory serves, television and movies have historically been broadcast at 24FPS in the past.
Gaming at 30 FPS is considered the minimum by most.
60FPS is (was) considered the sweet spot as it matched the Hz of the display and rendered animation much smoother.
Nowadays, thanks to tech advancements, 144Hz is possible, even though it's pretty much beyond our visual spectrum. However, this overkill ensures to max out your potential part of the equation.
It's all about smoothness. Higher frames typically equals smoother animation. However, this all means nothing if framerates aren't steady. This is why V-Sync, Adaptive Sync and G-Sync exist. These techniques try to normalize framerates to an average (or max in V-Sync) in an effort to provide consistency.
 
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i cannot tell a difference between 55-60 fps though when i drop down past that it is noticeable. When the fps is over 100 on a 60 Hz display the picture tears horizontally which is really annoying.
 
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You can easily see above 100fps and you can easily find the research to prove it. The soap opera affect is very noticeable and all you have to do is look at it for a a split second and notice a difference if you ever looked at a 120hz+ tv. I haven't seen so many people mention not being able to see above 60fps in a long time. Before lcd, most crt were above 60hz. The display industry didn't just want higher hz recently. Tv is 30hz ntsc and movies are not all 24hz. Live action has motion blur and is pre-rendered, it's not the same as 30fps on realtime 3d graphics rendering. On a 60hz monitor, it can't show above 60fps unless you get partial frames which is what tearing is. That's where the misinformation came from. The display can't show it and it's not about the eye's capabilities.

With vysnc on a 60hz display and you drop below 60fps, it causes micro stuttering which is why you are noticing the lower fps so much. Smoothness is more about frame time rather than fps. This is why many pro reviews are not just giving fps data.
 
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Just lock your fps if you're on a 60Hz monitor and getting 100fps in games. I see no reason why v sync should be turned on if you can limit your fps. It should stop the screen tear.
 
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1. It's often said you can't tell any difference between this and that but when you are using a monitor that can not display the difference, you are essentially in no position to judge. For example, using a TV to judge, makes the comparison futile.

2. "No one can tell the difference over 60 Hz" is another one. Easiest way to dispel this one is to turn on ULMB on a G-Sync monitor..

3. G-Sync will bring visual improvements down to 30 fps ... at about 70 fps, many folks will prefer ULMB. Freesync starts doing its job at about 40 fps, it has no comparable motion blur reduction technology to ULMB. You won't see screen tearing w/ either option.

4. Next month 4k screens will arrive with Display Port 4 which will allow 144 hz. At 1440p, we already have 165 Hz and some coming soon with higher.

So yes, it matters .... but that doesn't mean anything less than 100+ Hz is unacceptable. A 7700k can deliver all the computing power that the typical desktop user needs, even provide the ability to run a few workstation apps pretty well. But that doesn't mean that a lesser CPU can not fulfill it's intended purpose. On a laptop, where portability is a key feature ... as well as battery life, you sometimes have to make compromises. And getting portability and battery life means trying to use less power which in turn means less computing ability. So if i want the best gaming experience, I'll get my arse outta the LazyBoy and go up to my desktop worktation. But if I feel more like "being comfy", I'll leave my lazy arse in a comfy chair and I'll be perfect;y content doing so.

keep in mind however that business models require that mass market laptop vendor to satisfy or better said "cross over" several market niches and price points. So getting your laptop this way, will mean more compromises and more costs. You can however choose to have a laptop built to your needs, picking an assemblage of parts that best foits your targeted goals.

On thing we as users benefit from now is that the mobile series of GPUs, starting with the 10xx series, now perform much closer to their desktop counterparts. A 1050 would get you 50-ish fps on GTAV @ 1080p .... a 1060 would really improve things and once we see AMDs 5xx series in stores at adequate stocking levels, i think your budget may allow a 1060 which would keep you well over 60 fps. There are custom lappie builders who will let you choose from different screens and different cards on the same model .. tho the screen options are more prevalent with the 1070 and up.

Here's a 15" model w/ IPS screen ($1,095) w/ 1060
https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8155/



 
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Solution

Movies are historically 24 Hz (really old ones were 18 Hz I think? Which is why Charlie Chaplain movies seem to be sped up - they are). TV programs are historically 60 Hz interlaced (one complete frame every 1/30 sec) in North America and Asia, 50 Hz non-interlaced in Europe.

For gaming, it depends on the type of game. 30 Hz is a general minimum for twitch games like FPSes and scrollers - basically anything where you have to aim quickly and accurately. 12-15 Hz is a more realistic minimum for exploration games like Minecraft. Obviously your gaming experience will be more pleasant at higher framerates.

60FPS is (was) considered the sweet spot as it matched the Hz of the display and rendered animation much smoother.
Nowadays, thanks to tech advancements, 144Hz is possible, even though it's pretty much beyond our visual spectrum. However, this overkill ensures to max out your potential part of the equation.
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It varies by person and what you're looking at. Small changes are not as visible as large changes. I'm one of those individuals cursed with being sensitive to PWM - the rapid flickering on/off of LED lights to simulate a dimmer light output. I can notice it up to about 800 Hz, though it only bothers me up to about 250 Hz. Yes I can see older fluorescent lights flicker due to the 60 Hz AC current (causes a 120 Hz flicker). Driving at night behind certain cars gives me a headache because some manufacturers cheaped out and used taillights which have PWM (flicker) at 60-120 Hz. (Curse you GM and Nissan. Lexus, Infiniti, and Ford have increased their PWM frequency out of the annoying range the last few years.)

For smaller changes in intensity like video, I'm fine with 60 Hz, though the difference compared to 120 Hz (or 144 Hz) is visible.


I don't think the soap opera effect displays at 120 Hz. The soap opera effect comes from interpolating 24 fps movies to 60 Hz. The whole point of using 120 Hz is so that you can display 24 fps without having to do interpolation (display each movie frame for 5 TV frames). 24 Hz doesn't divide evenly into 60 Hz so you end up showing individual movie frame alternating for 2 or 3 TV frames, which causes judder.

You *could* interpolate up to 120 Hz for the soap opera effect. But it's hard to imagine TV manufacturers throwing in the extra money for processors which can interpolate the video at 120 Hz, when 60 Hz is "good enough". On a lot of TVs, the processors seem underpowered even for smart TV functions like Netflix or YouTube apps.

I haven't seen so many people mention not being able to see above 60fps in a long time. Before lcd, most crt were above 60hz. The display industry didn't just want higher hz recently. Tv is 30hz ntsc and movies are not all 24hz.
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NTSC is 60 Hz interlaced. Half the screen is refreshed every 1/60 sec, resulting in the smoothness of 60 Hz, but the illusion of full resolution. Broadcast HDTV is either 1366x768 @ 60 Hz, or 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz interlaced (1920x540 every 1/60 sec). Most TVs for the last decade are progressive scan though - they capture the interlaced signal in a buffer, and combine it with the previous interlaced frame to interpolate the full frame from it. Then display the full frame at 60 Hz.

With vysnc on a 60hz display and you drop below 60fps, it causes micro stuttering which is why you are noticing the lower fps so much. Smoothness is more about frame time rather than fps. This is why many pro reviews are not just giving fps data.
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Actually, if this is a regular Nvidia Optimus laptop, vsync is essentially always on. With Optimus, the Intel integrated GPU drives the screen. The Nvidia GPU acts as a co-processor. When the Nvidia GPU completes a frame, it sends it to the Intel GPU for display.

There are a few gaming laptops which let the Nvidia GPU drive the screen (or external monitor) directly. But those are extremely rare.
 
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This is a reply to JackNaylorPE (There isnt a reply button here anymore. I am on a mobile)
I live in India. Until last month, the best laptop I could get for 1100$ was one with a gtx 960m gpu. Recently, ASUS launched a new laptop on Indian amazon which has a GTX 1050 and it costs around 1000$. The laptops with GTX 1060 and GTX 1050Ti cost like 2000$.... way more expensive that US or most other countries. I have to stick with GTX 1050. Else wait for like 6 months for companies to launch laptops with higher specs and lower price. I really really wish I could get a GTX 1060 though. The US Amazon doesnt ship laptops to India, do they?
 
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Clevo is a worldwide distributor and even many US didytributors will ship overseas

CLEVO is a large Taiwanese computer company specializing in laptops. While the Clevo brand name is perhaps not widely known, their products are re-branded and sold by known boutique brand OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers)… notably Sager, VoodooPC, Falcon Northwest, Eurocom, etc. They are also considered (by whoever knows about notebooks) to design and manufacturer the best of the best notebooks in terms of superior build quality and innovative designs.

Established in 1983, as an ODM (Original Design Manufacturer), they sell barebones ranging from laptop to portable computing solutions for both AMD and Intel processors. Clevo is one of the world's most preferred ODM partners and markets their products in more than 50 countries, and have established service centers in the USA, Germany, Britain, China, and Taiwan.
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At one time, these guys sold Clevo ... dunno if they still do

http://www.connoiseur.com/

Many suppliers ship all over the world ... see list at ends of these FAQs

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-guide-v2-0-faq-and-reseller-info.91510/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-guide-v3-0-faq-and-reseller-info-read-before-posting.592609/

Check out Malibal, Illegear and LPC digital


 
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