How much muscle should I leave in my computer for my dad?

ajsellaroli

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Ahhhh Tom's Hardware, its so good to be back!!! How I have missed you so! lol, unfortunately a recent lack of money has kept me from looking into new hardware like I once did, and College classes meant I didn't have the time to browse TH anymore. Summer is here, however, and I'm glad to be back! :D

Here's the situation. I have a rig, whose specs are listed below. Basically, my dad's new job means that he is looking to upgrade his computer equipment (he currently uses a 6 year old dell). He has decided to purchase my computer from me, and then help me with some money to build my own rig. I'm very happy to agree to this, as I'd love to upgrade to a Core i7 computer (I'll make a thread about that later hehe, unless you want to help me now?? lol).

Thing is, I think it has way too much muscle in certain departments for him. I need advice on which parts I need to leave in the computer for my dad, and which parts I should take out and keep for my own new rig. Parts that he wouldn't need anyway.

My Dad's Needs: My dad is now a Lender.
He is scanning documents all the time, and his Dell is horrible at it, extremely slow.
My dad wants to have dual monitors so that he can leave rates open constantly, but his Dell only has one monitor port, and the graphics are not dedicated. The dual monitors are one of the most important things.
My dad needs to be able to access a remote server (not a big deal).
He doesn't want to wait 3 and a half minutes for the computer to boot up anymore.
He wants to do fancy things with photoshop from time to time, but he is forced to use my computer for this....annoying lol. This part isn't that important. Its ok if he uses my new computer for this. What he really just needs is a computer that can get things done fast and reliably. His dell is always having problems, and I'm constantly having to fix problems with it. I feel guilty for making him pay full price for my computer though, as I spent money on things I don't think he really needs. That's why I want to only charge him for the parts he is going to use.
They use outlook, word, and excel alot, and all three programs load slow, and generally have problems.


My current (about to be sold to my dad) rig:
Running Windows XP
Asus 25.5" 1920x1200 monitor (I'm keeping this fo sho lol)
Logitech G15 Keyboard (keeping it)
Logitech G5 mouse (keeping it)
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Rev. 2.0 LGA775 Motherboard (Leave, I want i7 haha)
Intel Core2Duo E2180 Processor (leave)
Velociraptor WD3000GLFS 300GB Hard Drive (I don't know..Keep or leave?)
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm CPU Cooler (your call)
G.Skill 2x2gb (total 4gb) DDR2 800 Ram (Probably leave, I think)
Visionek Radeon HD 3870 512MB Video Card (Definitely keep?? This card plays all my games at 1920x1200 graphics flawlessly...and my parents aren't gamers.)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200rpm Hard Drive (Probably leave)
Lite-On 20x DVD Burner Sata (Leave)
Antec Earthwatts EA430W Power Supply (leave)
Antec 900 Case (Leave)

Ok, what do you think? I max this rig out on a daily basis, the processor really strains with what I try to do with it. I'm a photographer for the school newspaper, and photo oriented things stress the processor a little. The processor is always maxxed out when playing Left4dead, but it only starts to bother me when I try to record demos with Fraps (I only get 20-24 fps). Encoding videos is also very slow. For my needs, I need a faster computer, for my dad's needs, he'll be in heaven. I dread using his old computer whenever he needs help, my computer is 100x faster in everything (25 second boot-up!). Please now just help me decide what parts are essential for my dad's needs, and what parts aren't. Keep in mind that though my dad may not need a Radeon 3870, he does need a graphics card capable of multiple monitors.

Thanks!
 

mlcloud

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The real question is, what do you want your i7 build to be? What's your i7 budget?

He need multi-monitor, so he needs a graphic card... is your i7 going to have the 3870 or not? There are cheaper graphic alternatives out there, but if you're just going to be upgrading to a gtx 260 or 4890 or whatever, then you don't need it, hence your father should keep it.

The processor, you're leaving the motherboard, but your wondering whether you should leave the processor? Come on now.

Is your e2180 overclocked? Will you be using the HDT-S1283 (the Dark Knight? Or its predecessor?) for your i7 or no? Do you have the stock cooler laying around somewhere?

Are you going to want that 10krpm drive? Or will you steal a few seconds off of your dad's boottime for it?

Does your dad need the extra storage?

Honestly, most of this can only be answered by YOU, but I'm tempted to just say leave everything except the 3870 UNLESS you're getting such new video card. You're purchasing another video card at any rate, whether or not you keep the 3870.
 

ajsellaroli

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mlcloud, thanks for your reply.

My i7 budget will be about $1500, and more later (I plan to add onto it as I go). I don't know much about recent hardware, but I would love suggestions on parts for this new build. My needs are video editing, image editing, and all the normal student stuff (office, imgburnin, torrenting, gaming, video encoding, hd video (Forget bluray, just torrent all your high deffies). My most used programs are everything in Adobe Master Collection CS4, Lightroom, Picasa, VirtualDub, Fraps, Office. I am going to need increased speed for specifically the CS4 programs, the other stuff runs fine right now (well, except for virtualdub, kinda slow).

I would keep the 3870 and purchase a lower powered card for my dad, yes. Any suggestions? He really doesn't need a 3870.
You'd really leave everything else? Even the raptor? The raptor alone ups the price quite a bit, do you think it would be worth it for him?
The processor was overclocked to 3.0ghz, but after a couple months it started to become unstable, and as I didn't have time to work with it (school) I just knocked it back to default. Yes I have the stock still.
He doesn't need that much storage, as he stores most of his files on a fileserver (an equally old dell) that also needs replacement.

Thanks!
 

drunknmunkys

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You:
Monitor
Keyboard
Mouse


PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018
99$ - 30$ MIR, 25$ combo savings

Antec 900 Case

HDD: Velociraptor WD3000GLFS 300GB Hard Drive

There are a million i7 builds around and they're all identical. Look one up.

Dad:
Mouse and keyboard from his old Dell unless he needs new ones

PSU: Antec Earthwatts EA430W Power Supply

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
50$ - 25$ combo savings

CPU: e5200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072
70$ - stick the HS on there and OC that puppy; you'll dad will buy you all the computer you want ;)

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Rev. 2.0 LGA775 Motherboard

Cooler: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm CPU Cooler

RAM: G.Skill 2x2gb (total 4gb) DDR2 800 Ram

Visionek Radeon HD 3870 512MB Video Card

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200rpm Hard Drive

HDD: WD 640GB Black
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
75$

Optical: Lite-On 20x DVD Burner Sata

Monitors: Acer X213Hbid Black 21.5" 5ms HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor x2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009175
300$

That's 470$ for your Dad, 60$ for you /w MIR.

Trash Can / Robot project for automated tennis-ball-tosser for dog
Intel Core2Duo E2180 Processor
 

drunknmunkys

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In other words keep the monitor and case and the vraptor. You can't be serious about building a i7 with a 1500$+ budget and keeping your 3870.
 
Just give him the whole thing. at 99 dollars a 4770 would be a upgrade for you. and you would still need to buy your dad a video card which would be about 50 bucks. really all the other parts are so dated I would just sell him the whole thing.
 

mlcloud

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Just what I was going to say. There's not much you can do with a $1500 budget if you're going to keep the 3870... (Edit: meant drunknmunkys post)

Unless you're planning to purchase one of those workstation cards...

Also, I'd rather have this tried and true power supply
Corsair 750tx (single 12v rail at 60A)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006&Tpk=corsair%20750tx

for $10 more before MiR. The OCZ one doesn't even tell you what its rail settings are on newegg (25A on two 12v rails for 50A total). I mean, I guess it is modular which is a plus (unless you care about energy efficiency).

Honestly, does he need to keep the vraptor? It's a $1500 i7 build with a 3870 for crying out loud. Get him two SSDs and put it on RAID 1 and a few 1TB harddrives, and let his dad get the 3-5 second faster boot times.
 
Your dad is likely doing things this way as much for you as he is for himself. He's taking the old stuff off your hands because it will work for him. And he's "helping" you with additional funds for your new system. Typical good dad :)

As for what you "charge" him . . . there's a big difference between original retail and current value. I don't imagine there's a large market for those old parts. I'm not sure he cares much about the price, he's probably more interested in seeing you handle this "correctly" than he is in the financial outcome. You'd do well thinking about how *he* would do it.

And thinking about what it would cost *him* if he just bought a new, servicable Dell lol. Anyhow . . .

It's reasonable to believe he thinks he would get your PC, minus the monitor of course. Anything else is techno-detail, and your preference.

Give him the whole box. But . . .

- clone the raptor onto a properly sized (for him) WD caviar black. He doesn't need the noise, heat, MTBF, or speed. You'll be happier keeping it, too.

- The 3870? Not sure you want to keep this, especially when it will serve him well and its capability is easily replaced. Talk to him about it. Tell him it may be more power than he needs, but its cost "used" but in known good condition is very attractive.

- Settle the finances.

- Done. Go build your new box.

- Love your dad :)
 
Your father's needs are for a much nicer CPU than an e2180. Keep that CPU around only for BIOS flashing if needed; get him at least an e7400.
Let him keep the VRaptor, or at least get him a WD Black drive.
He might benefit from a new, faster scanner, if that's where his big wait is.
All-in-Ones are versatile and cheap, but a lot of them aren't fast; your father is conducting business with his system, and needs decent performance for all of its parts (with the possibly exception of the video card). A 3870 is more than he needs now, but probably less than you want. Leave it for him.
 

drunknmunkys

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@mlcloud

I just spent 2 mins searching for a cheap case/decent PSU combo. I'd keep the case personally, but with 1500$ there's no need to. And if dad's helping out, more reason to get a new 900 ;)

If you're going to do gaming, keep the raptor. They're a waste of money new these days with the WD black series, but then again, you've already got one, so... You're dad will be just as happy with a WB black, it'll take 12 seconds to load instead of 11 seconds. It may just be easier to hand him the whole thing instead of worrying about switching parts over anyway.

But above all, listen to Twoboxer.
 

ajsellaroli

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Wait, so you're saying that an i& build would be even MORE than that?? Wtf? what's the point haha, I'd rather stick with LGA 775 and get myself a nice quad.



Good point on the graphics card. Now I'm starting to become unsettled about this whole thing.



Well said, I believe this is what is going through my dad's mind exactly :D. Now I'm starting to wonder whether I shouldn't just build my dad a new rig, and upgrade this rig for myself instead, what do you all think of that?? And are you SERIOUSLY saying that it would be better for my dad to buy a DELL!? haha, I swore I'd never buy another computer again after I built my first computer! Too much fun

Thanks jtt, and twoboxer, and drunkmonkey. I hadn't heard of WD Black hard drives yet, but they sound amazing, I'll look into them. I'm really starting to lean more toward a new build for him now. My poor computer is too dated. The reason I started considering giving this computer to him was because he was always using it when his has problems, and he thinks it is extremely fast lol.

So......what do you guys think?? If I am to 'sell' this computer to my dad, how much would I do that for? What about this list I came up with, would this be a total rip-off??

E2180 Processor
Worth: $50

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
Worth: $50

Case:Antec 900
Worth: $75

Antec Earthwatts EA430:
Worth: $60

Lite-on DVD Burner:
Worth: $15

Visiontek Radeon 3870 Graphics Card:
Worth: $100

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250gb
Worth: $52.99

G.Skill 4gb ram
Worth: $47

Velociraptor 10,000 RPM hard drive
Worth: $250

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283
Worth: $26



My dad's work may be paying for his 'computer upgrade' and I want to make sure the pricing would be comparable to a Dell of comparable speed.
 

drunknmunkys

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Yes, that's a complete ripoff. you're "selling" him parts that you've used for a year at OVER LIST PRICE .........................

I MIGHT pay 200$ for that system. If it didn't have the Vraptor it wouldn't be worth 50$.

Did you not read anything we wrote?
 

ajsellaroli

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Shoot is that over list price? I pulled all those prices from websites. You'd really pay only $200? That's harsh haha, is that mostly because the parts are used?

And yes, read everything that has been posted so far. So twoboxer is definitely the most correct among us lol.

I even told him about what all you guys have said, and he still wants to do it. He likes the idea that I can service the computer, he's been screwed by dell a few times.

With all that said, would you build him a new rig or would you go Dell?? Which would provide the better value?
 
You can't be serious.

E2180 Processor
Worth: $50 Hell no, maybe $25.

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
Worth: $50 Eh, nice board, but no more than $30 used.

Case:Antec 900
Worth: $75 WTF!? Used, $45

Antec Earthwatts EA430:
Worth: $60 Competent PSU, but maybe worth $30 due to its age.

Lite-on DVD Burner:
Worth: $15 Maybe, if it's Lightscribe.

Visiontek Radeon 3870 Graphics Card:
Worth: $100 Holy poop! Maybe $40. Maybe.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250gb
Worth: $52.99 New price? Ok, but the WD Black is better / faster.

G.Skill 4gb ram
Worth: $47 New.

Velociraptor 10,000 RPM hard drive
Worth: $250 No, it's USED. Perhaps $125-$150.

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283
Worth: $26 Eh. $20 used.

Now, here's where you can make some honest money on the deal, if your father's company is buying, and/or he can write it off on his annual extortion as a business expense. You charge a consulting fee, discussed with and assisted on pricing by your father. Consultant hourly rates can be considerable; I think Geek Squad is something like $75-$95 per hour, so a couple hours at those rates would be reasonable.
 

B-Unit

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You didnt say, but do you game? If not, keep your 3870 and get your dad something like a 4650 or a 9500GT.

If so, let pops keep the 3870 and score yourself a 4770/4870 for the new build.
 
I think part of the key here is to discuss the whole deal with your father. You know he's going to help you out on your new system; let that be separate from the price on your old one, since it is basically a gift.
Look at the prices of so-called "gamer" boxes on eBay. The 9500GT cards in some of them would be good enough for your father. A sane person would immediately replace the POS generic PSU with a real one (for maybe another $80), but the rest of the parts, if not great, would still be adequate for your father's needs.
Or, go out to Dell and price out a multi-monitor system that would meet your father's needs, and include 3 years of on-site service in the price.
In either case, then you need to price a decent scanner.
 

ajsellaroli

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I agree haha, and yes I read everything you wrote, thank you you've been extremely helpful. I took all those prices off websites, as I said. I just told my dad what you said, and he said it didn't matter to him that the parts are used (I'm guessing this is because the company will be paying for it). He was very happy to hear me tell him that If the processor failed, for example, I could get him a faster e5200 for $60.


Very painful post there. I'm not looking to make any 'dishonest money.' so thank you for pointing this out. Strange thing is, my dad doesn't care that its all used....hahaha. Charging a consulting fee is pure brilliance however haha. Should I pass some of the profits on to you guys?? Give me your paypal ID's lmao



I game far more than I should, my friend haha. A 4870 would be heavenly.

I think I"m going to delete that list of prices I posted, but so I don't confuse new posters to this thread, I won't. Just understand that at this point I UNDERSTAND that those prices are rip-offs haha. What do I do with the fact that he still wants to pay me new prices for these parts??Rather, wants to have the company pay those prices?



Last Q. What rig would you build him if you were to go New, or would you rather buy a Dell?????
 
Sentimental value aside, things are worth no more than what it costs to replace them.

- GO CONFIGURE a Dell that would do the job for HIM. That sets your maximum price.

- Deduct the price of a WD caviar black.

- Deduct something because you are giving him used stuff.

That's the price***. Be certain in your own mind that your system and this Dell configuration would both work for HIM. Then:

- Tell him you asked for tech advice on how best to do this.

- Tell him you chose this approach and why (because what matters is what it would cost him to buy the new capability he needs, not the original or even current price of your components), and tell him the price.

- Ask him what the right thing to do is from there, and the rest will work out fine.

Even if he thinks you came up with the wrong price, or used the wrong method, he will admire how you did it. You both might even learn some important stuff from the conversation that follows :)



*** It won't be much, but your dad knows he needs to buy two new computers, and has figured a way to buy only one. The rest is just bookkeeping lol.
 
If I were building new, I'd need to know the budget. Remember also, that a business user needs timely support; Dell support is 3rd party and may or may not suck, but for a small business I'd bet that it does, out loud. However good or bad it is, it should be factored into the price of the Dell.
You, a gamer, need more focus on GPU than CPU. Your father, however, will benefit most from a fast CPU, and, with enough apps going to make use of multiple monitors, possible another core or two. Consider the benchmarks at http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=83&p2=56
A business system must be stable, so plan on no overclock, or perhaps a slight one.
 

drunknmunkys

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If the business is buying it that changes things.

How big is the business (small im guessing)?
Do they have a computer tech?
If not they may need something with more support than ... you.

In that case maybe you're better off having your dad get a new computer (ANYTHING but Dell for the love of God), picking up an e8400 and 4850 for yourself.

What are your needs? You game 'some' and you're 3870 can run all the games you play at 1920x1200. What games do you play? I don't think a 3870 can load the installation screen for Crysis. But if you're happy playing older games you don't need an i7. You don't need an i7 unless you're doing video editing of high end graphics work, really.

So many questions still.
 

mlcloud

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No, we were saying why the hell would you build an i7 on a $1500 with only a 3870. Once you're in the $1500 range, you can afford to put stuff like GTX 295 or 4890s in there. We're talking "high-end" and the 3870 was "high end" years ago. In other words, why the hell are you putting bicycle wheels on a car when you're able to afford a new Ferrari?

Just to clear that up.
 

B-Unit

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WHAT!?!

The 3870 is just barely slower than an 8800GT, and as such would have no problems playing Crysis.