Question How to Choose a GPU for a New DAW PC?

[bill_phillips]

There's lot's of advice here and other places for choosing a GPU for gaming but not so for use in a DAW (for music production). Historically DAW applications did not tax the GPU. So the advice was to spend as little as possible on a GPU. That advice is no longer valid, at least in m opinion, and from reading other recent post, I'm not the only one realizing that a DAW requires an adequate GPU. The problem is no one, to my knowledge, is stepping up with useful guidance.

The power supply in my existing DAW (i7-6850K, 32 GB DDR4, M.2 drive, RX580, 3840x1600 display) failed coincidentally with my motherboard. So, I'm building a new one in the same box. So far I'm planning to use a i9-19200K, ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F, 32GB G.Skill Trident DDR5, Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE, and (3) Samsung 990 Pro 1 B 2280 M.2 Drives.

My existing RX580 probably still works but I was already looking to upgrade it in my now failed DAW PC. I'm hoping to spend not much more than $200 and not more that $300 for a new one. I've looked at the GPU data table on this site that now seems to be out of date, and I've looked at manufacturer's specs and don't find a lot of help.

For gaming the specification include frame rates and ray tracing capabilities and lots of other data that appears to be important to gamers; but there doesn't seem to be any clear linkage to music production (DAWs).

Historically DAW programs displayed rows and rows of wavy lines marching across the screen and maybe a row of bouncing level bars. Not a lot of action. So DAW builders used the least expensive GPU available for the maximum number of displays attached to the DAW.

But things have changed. Now dozens and dozens of VSTs (small application specific dlls built to VST2 or VST3 standards) are analyzing and modifying the data that drives those wavy lines in real time using very sophisticated math, and displaying what they're seeing and how they are changing it in real time to the DAW user. And the VSTs are dumping a lot of that processing work on the GPU using OpenGL.

When you open several of these VSTs to see what's going on and make adjustments, each VST opens a UI window that shows exactly what it's doing to the wavy line it's working on. With some of these VSTs you'll notice performance glitches in the form of audible pops, clicks and audio dropouts right away. If you open one or two more the DAW will stop. I'm hoping that I can afford a GPU that can and will allow me to work on mixes with several VST UIs open without performance issues.

I'm wondering if each of these little VST UI windows isn't roughly equivalent to expanding the display and increasing the frame rate while making the graphics in that window (such as a frequency spectrum analysis) much more difficult to draw than the little wavy lines they are obscuring. If so, my question is how much is enough? I definitely don't want a $1500 graphics card, nearly doubling the cost of my rebuild.

 

[Lutfij]

Can you specify the software you want to tax your DAW with? As far as my digging goes, audio production doesn't/shouldn't tax the GPU, it's merely needed for display output.

 

[hotaru.hino]

Honestly I can't imagine any AV effects needing something powerful enough to run say Cyberpunk 2077 with RT on and all the works.

Since I don't really know what kind of workload it'll have, I think the best way to go about this is buy something within your price range from a store that has a generous return policy (such as Amazon if the item is fulfilled by them). You can give it a few days to a week to see if it works for you and if it doesn't, you can return it.

 

[bill_phillips]

Can you specify the software you want to tax your DAW with? As far as my digging goes, audio production doesn't/shouldn't tax the GPU, it's merely needed for display output.

Dsiplaying output is not always as simple as it sounds. To my knowledge DAW GPU requirements are either non-existent or a well kept secret. I'm not at all familiar with computer games but I'm guessing that DAW GPU requirements are less than those for computer games. I just don't know how much less. For DAWs, it's the VST plugins, not the DAW that can tax the GPU.

Many VST plugins use OpenGL to access GPU processing capabilities, though you usually have to ask to find out. It's not something I've generally seen listed in plugin system requirements, probably because the plugins will work without OpenGL access to the GPU as long as you don't open the VST UI during playback. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how that works or how much work is being delegated to GPUs.

I use a lot of different VST plugins primarily VST3 versions, but I'm most familiar with the iZotope Music Production Suite which includes (among other things), what I'd call sophisticated, channel strips that don't look like channel strips for vocals, all channels and the Master Bus.

These strips include a number of modules including the ones in a normal channel strip plus character analysis and enhancement modules. Each module has a UI that graphically presents before/after real time graphs along with important tuning parameters that can be changing in real time. The calculations required to produce the display as well as some of the signal processing calculations could be delegated to the GPU.

I know anecdotally that opening a modules UI will impact playback and opening several can stop playback. I've also asked iZotope about this and asked them for GPU processing recommendations. They have said we do use OpenGL when it's available but not much else.

Honestly I can't imagine any AV effects needing something powerful enough to run say Cyberpunk 2077 with RT on and all the works.

Since I don't really know what kind of workload it'll have, I think the best way to go about this is buy something within your price range from a store that has a generous return policy (such as Amazon if the item is fulfilled by them). You can give it a few days to a week to see if it works for you and if it doesn't, you can return it.

I don't even know what Cyberpunk 2077 is. But I'm guessing you are right.

That's a good idea. I've been going through the options in tom'sHARDWARE Best Graphics Cards for Gaming in 2023 list, though I don't generally like to return products that aren't defective. I'm also looking at used and refurbished cards on newegg for more bang for the buck.

I was hoping some of the folks very familiar with the inter-workings of VST plugins would be monitoring this forum and would chime in with information that would help me and the others that have posted related questions intelligently choose a graphics card. Fingers crossed.

 

[hotaru.hino]

I don't even know what Cyberpunk 2077 is. But I'm guessing you are right.

It's a game, and one that's heavy on graphics.

That's a good idea. I've been going through the options in tom'sHARDWARE Best Graphics Cards for Gaming in 2023 list, though I don't generally like to return products that aren't defective. I'm also looking at used and refurbished cards on newegg for more bang for the buck.

I would argue that's why return policies exist, so people can try out a product before committing to it or to make up for an issue that they couldn't foresee for some reason another. Like one day I bought lights that didn't actually fit in my sconces, because I wasn't aware Edison sockets in homes come in different sizes. So I got those returned.

Warranty is for capturing defective items.

 

[bill_phillips]

It's a game, and one that's heavy on graphics.


I would argue that's why return policies exist, so people can try out a product before committing to it or to make up for an issue that they couldn't foresee for some reason another. Like one day I bought lights that didn't actually fit in my sconces, because I wasn't aware Edison sockets in homes come in different sizes. So I got those returned.

Warranty is for capturing defective items.

Thanks.

I may use your idea once my replacement PC is built. I can start out with my existing RX 580 8GB, record some mixing results. Then purchase a significantly more powerful graphics card and run the same test.

One problem I'll have is that I have the Windows and Cakewalk Performance Monitor to show the CPU and Memory load. But, I don't know how to show how heavily loaded the GPU is.

 

[Corwin65]

Your 580 should be more than adequate to power any DAW you throw at it.

The "pictures" your GPU and any VST's throw at it will be a "Cakewalk" for it.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This should be a pretty simple recommendation because if the RX 580 did a good job, then any modern GPU will do a great job.

Considering your budget and past experience with an RX 580, I would say to just get an RX 6600. It's 68% more potent than the RX 580 and is the absolute best-value video card in the world today at only $180:

GIGABYTE Radeon RX 6600 EAGLE WINDFORCE 3X 8GB - $180

 

[bill_phillips]

This should be a pretty simple recommendation because if the RX 580 did a good job, then any modern GPU will do a great job.

Considering your budget and past experience with an RX 580, I would say to just get an RX 6600. It's 68% more potent than the RX 580 and is the absolute best-value video card in the world today at only $180:

GIGABYTE Radeon RX 6600 EAGLE WINDFORCE 3X 8GB - $180

I like the price, I'll consider the RX 6600 if I decide to upgrade. Based on what I'm hearing here, I'm going to wait until I've got the new DAW up and running, and can test the intel integrated GPU and my RX 580 for mixing.

What numbers are you comparing to calculate the 68% more potent?

Also I found Integrated Audio - 6 Best GPUs for Your DAW which seem to support what I was thinking. I found "audio plugins and instruments that rely on GPU power are becoming more commonplace" and "In music production, OpenGL can create visualizers and other graphical representations of sound such as spectrograms and waveforms enabling producers and engineers to analize and manipulate audio in real time."

I don't know anything about this site or how valid the information presented is, but it does supports using more powerful graphic cards for music production.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I like the price, I'll consider the RX 6600 if I decide to upgrade. Based on what I'm hearing here, I'm going to wait until I've got the new DAW up and running, and can test the intel integrated GPU and my RX 580 for mixing.

What numbers are you comparing to calculate the 68% more potent?

Well, I should quantify that I'm quoting the TechPowerUp GPU Database, a very well-respected tech site on par with sites like Tom's Hardware and TechSpot. Here's the link to the page for the RX 580 and if you scroll through the relative performance chart, you'll see that the RX 6600 is listed at 168% of the RX 580's performance. Admittedly, this is gaming performance but it does speak to the potency of the GPU itself:
TechPowerup GPU Database: RX 580, relative performance of the RX 6600

Also I found Integrated Audio - 6 Best GPUs for Your DAW which seem to support what I was thinking. I found "audio plugins and instruments that rely on GPU power are becoming more commonplace" and "In music production, OpenGL can create visualizers and other graphical representations of sound such as spectrograms and waveforms enabling producers and engineers to analize and manipulate audio in real time."

Well, OpenGL is essentially a dead API these days, having been completely superseded by VULKAN. To be fair, I don't know much about music production so maybe OpenGL still has a function there. As a graphics API however, it hasn't really been used in years.

 

[bill_phillips]

Well, I should quantify that I'm quoting the TechPowerUp GPU Database, a very well-respected tech site on par with sites like Tom's Hardware and TechSpot. Here's the link to the page for the RX 580 and if you scroll through the relative performance chart, you'll see that the RX 6600 is listed at 168% of the RX 580's performance. Admittedly, this is gaming performance but it does speak to the potency of the GPU itself:
TechPowerup GPU Database: RX 580, relative performance of the RX 6600

Well, OpenGL is essentially a dead API these days, having been completely superseded by VULKAN. To be fair, I don't know much about music production so maybe OpenGL still has a function there. As a graphics API however, it hasn't really been used in years.

Thanks for the GPU Database reference. I'd looked at TechPowerup link from an earlier post, but didn't find the database.

As for VULKAN, it looks like the future. There's a link to it on the OpenGL homepage; but I don't recall seeing it in any hardware specs I'm looking at. That may be because I'm not only looking at older graphics cards.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Thanks for the GPU Database reference. I'd looked at TechPowerup link from an earlier post, but didn't find the database.

It's pretty good. I doubt that it's 100% accurate but it's the most accurate resource out there because they collect data from several different review sites as well as their own (like Tom's, TechSpot, Guru3D, etc.) when they compile their lists.

As for VULKAN, it looks like the future. There's a link to it on the OpenGL homepage; but I don't recall seeing it in any hardware specs I'm looking at. That may be because I'm not only looking at older graphics cards.

I agree that it's the future because, unlike DirectX/Direct3D, VULKAN is multi-platform. It was originally made by AMD and called Mantle. It can be used with Windows, Linux, Consoles and/or MacOS. Microsoft has even adopted parts of VULKAN in its implementation of DirectX12.

 

[ARICH5]

ive used cakewalk in the past for vst's and some midi work but i stopped because it was getting expensive. now i use fl studio and virtual dj for song mixing. this is a example of how graphics can affect a "song"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-acJLnZ77P8

 

[bill_phillips]

ive used cakewalk in the past for vst's and some midi work but i stopped because it was getting expensive. now i use fl studio and virtual dj for song mixing. this is a example of how graphics can affect a "song"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-acJLnZ77P8

Cakewalk was bought by Bandlab in 2018 and it's been free and receiving significant improvements and bug fixes ever since. Bandlab has just released the final update and they are releasing two new DAW products that won't be free soon.

 

[Corwin65]

One question, what interface are you using?

 

[zx128k]

12900k should be paired with a high end GPU. A least a 3080 ti and above. Avoid all low end amd gpus because of very poor performance and features. The 6600 etc are complete garbage. Avoid the AMD 6000 series in general, these cards are already feature wise obsolete. They lack the Ray tracing performance for current games and have no AI upscaling. Basically a cheap card get an Intel A770. Has 16GB of VRAM decent RT performance and AI upscaling. The bare minimum a GPU card should have, decent RT and AI upscaling.

 

[Corwin65]

I do not believe there will be gaming involved so that would be overkill.

 

[zx128k]

I do not believe there will be gaming involved so that would be overkill.

A770 or nVidia GPU. nVidia has the best encoding/decoding support. Large VRAM for videos. Remember effects can be run on the gpu. You can use even an AMD card for some programs for audio processing.

 

[Avro Arrow]

12900k should be paired with a high end GPU. A least a 3080 ti and above.

Not for his purposes.

Avoid all low end amd gpus because of very poor performance and features. The 6600 etc are complete garbage.

Said by one who clearly doesn't own a Radeon GPU.

Avoid the AMD 6000 series in general, these cards are already feature wise obsolete.

Funny how the vast majority of expert reviewers say that they're the best cards to buy right now.

They lack the Ray tracing performance for current games and have no AI upscaling.

That only matters to you. I've yet to see a single poll that shows your opinion to be anything other than a tiny minority.

Basically a cheap card get an Intel A770. Has 16GB of VRAM decent RT performance and AI upscaling. The bare minimum a GPU card should have, decent RT and AI upscaling.

I'm guessing that you didn't read the original post. This isn't for gaming and he's already familiar with using Adrenalin Software. He was able to do what he wanted with an RX 580 but wants a new card. Why on Earth would he spend extra money on a card with software that he won't be familiar with that won't offer him any advantage over an RX 6600 which is already probably overkill for what he wants to do?

Do you work for nVidia or are you just a fanboy? It's definitely one or the other because your post is not the post of a real hardware expert.

 

[zx128k]

Not for his purposes.

Said by one who clearly doesn't own a Radeon GPU.

Funny how the vast majority of expert reviewers say that they're the best cards to buy right now.

That only matters to you. I've yet to see a single poll that shows your opinion to be anything other than a tiny minority.

I'm guessing that you didn't read the original post. This isn't for gaming and he's already familiar with using Adrenalin Software. He was able to do what he wanted with an RX 580 but wants a new card. Why on Earth would he spend extra money on a card with software that he won't be familiar with that won't offer him any advantage over an RX 6600 which is already probably overkill for what he wants to do?

Do you work for nVidia or are you just a fanboy? It's definitely one or the other because your post is not the post of a real hardware expert.

The RX 6600 is complete garbage, stop telling people to buy it. For a Professional, audio or otherwise. There is only nVidia for cuda support.

 

[D A Workstation]

I'm replying to an older thread because

1. People come to Tom's Hardware for good advice
2. 90% of the responses here are BAD ADVICE

Look, if you aren't running a professional DAW, how about you not post?

For the OP, conventional wisdom is to run as far away as possible for any NVIDIA engine if you run a DAW. Here's what I can tell you about that wisdom.

First, if you're considering an NVIDIA (gaming) card for a DAW - DO NOT!

• The drivers and additional software reliably cause issues with latency, crashes, plug in freezes, render issues, and anything you want to do with a DAW.
• 999 people can post that's wrong but I interface with major plugin makers and as of September 2024 they are all advising users to avoid NVIDIA chipsets. (I believe they mean the gaming ones).
• Anytime you have to work with video in your session, and if you haven't you will. You''ll be surprised. The NVIDIA gaming cards are going to crash, stutter, or mess with your timeline and renders.
• If you do have an NVIDIA gaming card, wipe everything and install only the driver—nothing else. Then, go buy another option.
• There are NVIDIA-based workstation cards. Those are totally different and designed for CAD, Architecture, Medical Research, and that kind of tech work. They're great for you. Plus, they shine should you do photo or video editing.

My advice is buy a Workstation Card. The chipset can be AMD or NVIDIA. If I had a choice, I go with AMD only because I've had 22 years of stability from AMD, and have spent thousands on $800 NVIDIA cards that crashed my system 95% of the time, only to be outperformed by a $119 AMD. Additionally, I know many PC Pro Tools users who use sub $100 workstation cards from NVIDIA (think Quadro line) that work perfectly. (These are old server cards that litter eBay and the used market).

Anyone who says integrated graphics or gaming video cards has never worked on a commercial recording. Full stop.