How to clone drives from a 2 drive RAID 0 array

jthorpe

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How can you clone (copy) drives from a RAID 0 array. I have an XP desktop that currently has 2 - 1 TB WD Caviar Black drives in it. One of the drives seems to have started failing as it has dropped out of the RAID a couple times.

I'm looking to change out the old 1 TB drives and put in 2 TB drives. Is there a way to clone the 2 - 1 TB drives that are currently in a RAID 0 (creating a single 1.87 TB drive) to 2 - 2 TB dives (to create a 3.8 roughly drive).

I.E.:

Clone/copy drive 1 (currently a 1 TB drive s/n ending in 8228) to a new 2 TB drive creating a new drive 1

Clone/copy drive 2 (currently a 1 TB drive s/n ending in 0303) to a new 2 TB drive

Basically clone the RAID set to a new RAID set. Is this possible and have the 2 new drives run in my XP machine just like the original drives did?

I'm looking at a Sabrent Dual Bay Hard Drive Dock/Cloner model: EC-HDD2 (https://www.sabrent.com/category/hard-drive-enclosures/EC-HDD2/) to clone the drives and to serve as a dive dock afterwards. Will this clone the drives from my RAID array to a new set? If not, any device similar that would, without spending a ton of money?

(I would use my XP desktop, but the last time I went into the RAID controller it said the drive with the s/n ending in 8228 was tagged with "Error Occurred(0)" and I'm currently scanning a drive with my externally powered SATA to USB adapter to check the drive. I did a Testdisk scan in GParted and it didn't report any errors, except for a single partition error, which I assume is because of it being part of a RAID, no other errors were given. So I assume the drives are still functioning, but the one ending in 8228 seems to be failing. So I'd rather not have it run, until I just clone it (sector by sector). But need to know what will work to clone them to a new drive set.

(** Correction: I did a Testdisk scan on both drives singly attached and the one that's reported under the RAID config screen is the one with the s/n ending in 8228, however it tests fine under Testdisk using GParted. The one with the s/n ending with 0303, Testdisk in GParted says: The following partition can't be recovered:

Partition: HPFS - NTFS
Start: 174627 4 50
End: 198497 218 31
Size in sectors: 383485014

I'm assuming this is because of the RAID)


Options????

Thanks.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Copy paste. Plug in the new drives, set up RAID for them, then copy from the old drives. RAID is smart enough to paste it in the exact same way as it was on the old drives.

Otherwise, use a Disk cloning tool. There are many available, just pick whatever seems easy to use.
 
Plug in the new drives. make the new RAID. You should have current RAID and new RAID in your PC.

Download Macrium Refelect. Use it to clone one raid to the other. When you go to clone select the Partition Properties and make sure you set it to MAX size so it takes up the whole new 2Tb otherwise it will just show as 1 TB like it was and XP doesn't have native patition tools to expand like Vista and up do.
 
G

Guest

Guest


Nice idea, never thought you could do it this way.


 

jthorpe

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Well I'm looking at a dock/cloner for not only doing this, but I would like to be able to clone other drives as well. Here's the reason's I'm looking at a dock/cloner station.

1.) Clone the current 2 drive RAID 0 array to a new set.
2.) Create back up of the RAID 0 array
3.) Clone drives that are in a NAS (both single drive units and a 4 drive unit in a RAID 0 array) for backups and new drives
4.) Clone drives that are in a TiVo with a lifetime service (with an EIDE to SATA connector)
5.) Cloning drives for backups drive sets (on a regular basis)
6.) And finally have a drive dock station

But the question is, will this or another drive dock/cloning station clone drives from a RAID (0) set and have them work just like the originals?
 

jthorpe

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Well I'm looking at a dock/cloner for not only doing this, but I would like to be able to clone other drives as well. Here's the reason's I'm looking at a dock/cloner station.

1.) Clone the current 2 drive RAID 0 array to a new set.
2.) Create back up of the RAID 0 array
3.) Clone drives that are in a NAS (both single drive units and a 4 drive unit in a RAID 0 array) for backups and new drives
4.) Clone drives that are in a TiVo with a lifetime service (with an EIDE to SATA connector)
5.) Cloning drives for backups drive sets (on a regular basis)
6.) And finally have a drive dock station

But the question is, will this or another drive dock/cloning station clone drives from a RAID (0) set and have them work just like the originals?
 
A Cloning dock will NOT clone a 2 drive RAID depending on how the RAID is setup. When you are cloning to and from a RAID Array that is a hardware RAID you MUST clone the the drives while they are IN the current array to the NEW Array that is already setup. You can't just clone one drive to another and toss them back in on a Hardware RAID. The reason being is that the Hardware RAID does NOT know that those drives are part of an array.

Now if it is a software RAID that is different as when you clone the drive and partition it copies over all the RAID information as well.

Now a few things.

Is your NAS running windows, linux, FreeNAS, or is it something like a Synology that has it's own software? I ask because if it is something like a synology then what you have to do is plug in 1 drive that can hold all your data, copy it over, then add the new drives, make the new RAID and then copy it all over.

Windows you can just use Macrium to clone, Linux and FreeNAS you will want to use Clonezilla.

Now getting a dock is one thing for a single drive or to connect a backup drive but again anything that is not a software RAID you WILL have to clone from either the RAID to a backup drive or copy files to the backup drive, then toss in the new drives, make the new arrary and then copy your files back.

So we need to know more about all your stuff to give an exact answer as to what will work.

Also for the TiVo I have no idea what File System they use. I would assume a linux parition.

 

jthorpe

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The 2 devices that have RAID's in them are a Sony Vaio VGC-RA830G desktop computer (I haven't restored this system in awhile so I don't know if running the Windows XP recovery disks asks me if I want to RAID them or not). According to Sony's site it originally shipped version of the Intel® RAID Controller Driver. From looking at the users manual (from: https://docs.sony.com/release//VGCRA830-930series.pdf) it does ask if you want to set up a RAID 0 or a RAID 1.

The other device that uses a RAID is a WD Sharespace NAS box (Users manual: http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/UM/ENG/4779-705006.pdf), this can be set up in a RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. This can be changed using the UI by going to the IP address of the NAS box. This currently has 4 x 2 TB WD Caviar Green drives in it (it's mostly has a digital copy of my DVD collection). But would like to create copies of the drives in case something happens.

And I do believe the TiVo's are Linux based.
 

jthorpe

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Well if this helps when I booted my desktop (the one I'm wanting to copy the RAID to new drives), it told me one of the drives has errors (it's been turned off, only booted it to check on something real quick and off again till I replace the drive to prevent total loss). I opened the message and it took me to: "Intel Storage Utility 4.5", I don't know if that helps on finding out if it's a hardware or software type of RAID for cloning purposes, as I said in a earlier reply it's a Sony Vaio VGC-RA830G desktop.

On the NAS box, I don't know what kind of RAID setup that is, I do know that you can set the RAID type through the UI via the NAS IP address, it's a WD Sharespace 4 drive NAS, I'd like to get a copy/clone of what's on it at points in case something happens to drives in that NAS box.

Another thing I'm considering (if possible) is to copy/clone the OS and programs over to a single SSD boot drive. I'd like to clone it instead of a fresh start as there are programs I can't reinstall/reactivate, for one my copy of Microsoft Office 2010 (I don't know where the key is for it to be able to reinstall it), etc. I'm looking to get a decent sized SSD to use for booting the OS and use it for main programs, so it'll be basically a read only SSD (except for when programs that are on it update). Since it's a smaller sized drive I can find a way to mount it outside the 3 drive - drive bay cage in the Vaio case, and then I can populate them with (possibly) 6 TB data storage drives.

So now I have these questions:

1.) How long would an SSD drive last that is mostly used as a read-only set up (i.e.: boot the OS, and be a place for main programs, like Microsoft Office, etc.) and where the write to it will be minimal?

2.) How can I clone the OS and programs (like Microsoft Office 2010) from a 2 drive RAID 0 array over to a single SSD drive (without having to re-activate programs - as I mentioned I don't know where my Office 2010 key code is to reactivate)?

3.) Window XP 32 bit should be able to handle 6 TB drives as a data storage drive, correct?

4.) If I use something like a 6 TB drive, can I RAID an additional 6 TB drive in something like a RAID 1 where it's a copy of the other 6 TB data drive for redundacy? Or even in a RAID 5 as my system says it supports a RAID 5 (note this is for data, not to boot from), or is that also capped at 2 TB?

5.) If I was able to move everything over to an SSD, is there a way to copy the current RAID setup (OS and most programs) over to a medium that doesn't degrade over time and be able to restore it if I decide to go back to regular drives?

6.) What is the best/better brand of SSD's? Best Buy currently sells these brands:
Samsung
PNY
SanDisk
Toshiba
Kingston
Intel
Seagate
iBUYPOWER
Lenovo
VisionTek

Best Buy has a PNY - CS1100 240GB Internal SATA III Solid State Drive for $60 that I'm looking into.

6.) Since the SSD will be basically used to boot XP from and to store programs (ones that don't have a lot of updates), is there a way to lock (or warn before) writing to the drive? I know how to install another drive, so programs that have a lot of updates (like Steam, and the game Smite, etc.) would be put on a mechanical drive rather than the SSD. (i.e.: XP OS, Microsoft Office, programs that don't really update a lot, etc would be on the SSD or C drive, but programs like iTunes, Steam, Smite game, programs with frequent updates, etc. would go on a regular mechanical drive or D drive, basically creating a read-only C drive). Also, how can I set up let's say drive letter D (a regular mechanical drive) as the default for My Documents, My Music, My Pictures for saving to where I can change it if I want it to the SSD?

Thanks for your help.
 
1) Most SSD's will out last (Theoretically) most HDD's. Most SSD's have a 5 year life with 50-150GB Written to them PER DAY so in your case you are probably looking at a few gigs a day day at most.

2) You can use Macrium Reflect to clone your drives. Just make sure you have a big enough SSD to fit all the data. You can customize the partition sizes as you clone drive and also just clone over partitions (In your case clone over the first OS drive, then just clone over the partition to the empty space after or just copy the files over if you want)

3) XP can access 2+TB drives so long as they are not directly attached to the PC. there are ways to get it to read 2+TB but I have not done it even though I work in the IT world. Most of that is because 1) I haven't installed XP in a few years and 2) most of my clinents don't need more than 500GB. If they are mapped drives (on the NAS) you should be able to access them, but 32 bit XP will NOT be able to use GPT for 2+TB drives. XP 64 bit CAN use GPT but only as a data drive. It must still be installed on a MBR drive.

4) As far as RAID goes it all depends on the support of the device.
In a NAS most modern day NAS can support up to 4TB minimum and probably up to 8TB drive.

Now if you are talking about you WD Sharespace I did some looking up. 1) They REQUIRE WD Drives. 2) this is an old unit. back when 2TB was the biggest drive you can get and can not find anyone who has put anything bigger than a 2TB drive in it. 3) Not all the WD drives are compatible and can't find any good list of the ones that are.

So if you plan on putting drives in there 2TB may be the max size (giving you a max of 8TB if you do a RAID 0 which you DON"T want to do)

Now if you are trying to add it to your Sony Viao...I would dump that thing. It is an older P4. You would be capped at 2TB if it is running XP and there is no point in buying a new windows license for that machine.

5) Again SSD's have a very high endurance and will more than likely out live your HDD. You can always use Macrium to make a 1:1 copy of the SSD as a backup or make an image and save it somehwere.

6) Samsung is on top. They own over 50% of the SSD market right now. I have only played with Samsung, Crucial, Silicion Power, ADATA, and intel and have had no issues at all. All of them minus the intel are within the past 2 years and as far as performance goes they are all pretty much the same. The intel is an old SSD that was given to me after upgrading a client. It is an older 80GB drive that I use as a OS drive for my Bench PC and even though it isn't as fast (and only SATAII) It still works great.

Also i would highly reccomend to NOT use a SSD with XP. They were not made for it. the SSD will slow down and degrade MUCH faster than if it was a Vista+ machine that support trim.

All in all after looking up more about your PC and NAS you are better off saving up for a new PC and a new NAS or a PC case that will hold a lot of hard drives.
 
MERGED QUESTION
Question from jthorpe : "Desktop SSD for boot"





It will last much longer than your system :) except electrical failures or silicone defect, those drive can live well over 10 years if used mostly for read. I have one 30GB disk that is about 7 years old and still working in one of the linux machines.
When SSD used with older OS like yours, you should take care of TRIM. read about it.
 

jthorpe

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Thanks for your reply and info. Yes I know this system is old and should be replaced, but I mostly use this system/desktop for mostly for the DVD creation program that allows me to create DVD's like store bought one (i.e.: DVD menus, etc.), light web browsing, play DVD and movies, play music and playing light games like Meridian 59, etc. Even though it's an older system, it still works (the only problem I've had is with the drives) and does what little I need it to do, but mostly it's to create DVD with the Sony native OS program that's not on my Sony Vaio notebook running Windows 7 only has Windows Movie Maker. So if it still works for what I need it to (as most things I do with my notebook) and I really like the DVD creation program, then why get rid of it, especially when the only problem/thing I've done is add more RAM and change the drives?

I was looking to RAID 5 a set of for mostly video storage (i.e.: TiVo recordings, camcorder, etc video files), until I can edit and create a DVD for the files. I'm thinking RAID 5 as if I do a SSD for a boot drive, it'll open 3 bays for drives for regular mechanical drives and the RAID 5 would give me some redundancy on the data. This will move those large video files from a NAS onto this and free up space on NAS. I'd like to work on creating a network storage that I can copy my DVD's (I have like 1,500 + movies) onto a NAS device to be able to stream to devices like Boxee Box, etc. as well as my (1,500 +) CD's. Even though the system/devices may be dated, granted they may not be powerful, but if they work, for some purpose, why get rid of them?

Now on the WD Sharespace, what is said is that it only supports the WD Caviar Green drives, but I did see a post about someone using WD red's. I'm not finding anything about anyone trying other WD drives or drives of a larger size, which is why I asked. I was hoping that someone who has tried and possibly got it to work larger than 2 TB drives would say they did and what they did to get it to work. I've seen some Sharespace's for sale for a cheap price, And was thinking of using a couple in a RAID 5 and put my DVD movies on it for streaming to devices in my home network, but with 1,500 + DVD movies it takes a lot of space. The one I have currently has older drives that I'd like to be able to copy the data as a failsafe and to get new drives in it (as it's currently in a RAID 0, I didn't know until I already quite a bit of files on it and no where to store the files to change the RAID on it). Again, it still works and it works for a purpose, so why get rid of it (well yet)?

On my Windows XP it has an active license and I can install fresh and have no problems activating it. I'd rather clone/copy what's on the including the activated programs to new drive(s). The reason I would rather clone than start fresh is because I have a few programs that had a one time install/activation (or in the case of my copy of Microsoft Office 2010, I don't know where my Key Code is for it to reactivate it and people are trying to sell Office 2010 professional for well over $500, and who knows if it's not a bootleg copy), that's why I'm looking at cloning/copying over to a new drive vs. starting fresh. So the only license I'd have to re-purchase if I can't clone the drives over with it working (well the main one I'm mostly concerned with) is Office 2010.

Would the"Macrium" program copy the 2 drives from the RAID 0 array to create a backup of it to be able to restore it to drives if needed (again I ask this to be able to at least keep my Office 2010 active unless I can find my Key for it). As I'll probably keep this Vaio for the DVD creation program until the mobo dies. Also the current drives that I have are regular mechanical drives. If I merge it over to a single drive using Macrium, would I be able to use that backup to populate what ever RAID version I want to create? I.E.: from a single drive to something like a RAID 5, or RAID 0, if not how would I backup my current RAID 0 to a medium to restore later if needed? How would I create an image that's restoreable to a new set of drives?

Also, I know SSD's are not reconmmended for XP systems, but I read somewhere that you can, but you would have to turn off disk defrag, indexing, etc for the SSD (which I have no problem doing) and it'll work fine.

Right now I'm working on keeping what I have going (within a reasonable price) and work on upgrading to a Windows 7 (not too much of a fan of Windows 10 and Windows 8 is ughh ok to a point) desktop at a later point when I can afford a new desktop (but keeping this one for the DVD creation program). I'm also looking at Silverstone DS380 case (http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=452) to create my own NAS device.


Thanks again