How to figure out which gpu would go with a cpu?

[roguebolt0]

I have been trying to understand if this is even possible; to quantifyably look at a gpu and cpu to decide if they are about even in power so that one is not bottle necking the other.

In my googling this subject the op would always add what they were trying to pair and people would try to answer that specific problem instead of the question. in expectance of such i wont mention mine.

Now the question here is, can i look at a number(such as the g3d mark and cpu mark from cpubenchmark.net) or something else to determine whether a specific cpu goes with a specific gpu.

please excuse me if this question is common or doesnt make any sence. im just trying to make heads or tails of this with little experience looking this far into my computer.

 

[bystander]

Think of it this way. Your CPU determines the max possible FPS you can get, no matter what GPU(s) you use. Your resolution determines how much GPU horsepower is needed to reach your desired FPS. The age and type of games you use will also play a big factor.

If you are playing at 1080p, the GPU that is best suited for your system is much less powerful than what is needed at 1440p or 4k. If you only want to play at 30 FPS, then you can use a weaker GPU, than someone who wants to play at 100 FPS. If your CPU is weak, you will be limited on what FPS you can achieve, lowering the GPU requirement. If you play only older games, your requirements may also lower.

Basically, this is a complex question, which requires a lot more input than you've given. To have a chance to know what you want, you need to answer the following:
1) What is your resolution?
2) What is your CPU?
3) What is your target FPS?
4) What games are you playing?

Your PSU may also need to change, and RAM requirements may play a role as well.

 

[roguebolt0]

Think of it this way. Your CPU determines the max possible FPS you can get, no matter what GPU(s) you use. Your resolution determines how much GPU horsepower is needed to reach your desired FPS. The age and type of games you use will also play a big factor.

If you are playing at 1080p, the GPU that is best suited for your system is much less powerful than what is needed at 1440p or 4k. If you only want to play at 30 FPS, then you can use a weaker GPU, than someone who wants to play at 100 FPS. If your CPU is weak, you will be limited on what FPS you can achieve, lowering the GPU requirement. If you play only older games, your requirements may also lower.

Basically, this is a complex question, which requires a lot more input than you've given. To have a chance to know what you want, you need to answer the following:
1) What is your resolution?
2) What is your CPU?
3) What is your target FPS?
4) What games are you playing?

Your PSU may also need to change, and RAM requirements may play a role as well.

Alright im going to hope this thread doesn't go the same way as the others (sorry for sounding paranoid)

1) 1280x1024 (forgive me if screen res isn't what you meant)
2) an intel core i5 750 2.67 GHz
3) im looking for above 30 and im hopeful on 60
4) Mainly im looking at skyrim. other games im not worried so much on graphics as I am on fps(which can get pretty bad somethimes on my current set up) ala payday 2, borderlands 2, and chivalry.

once again i'm more interested in understanding and being able to figure this out on my own in the future than i am in JUST getting an answer for this computer. So lets use this example: Skyrim High settings at 60 fps.

 

[bystander]

You are going to need to look at reviews of the specific games, which include CPU benchmarks, and hopefully low end benchmarks.
Skyrim example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-9.html

Due to your lack of an OC on your CPU, you will not be able to achieve high FPS in many games, regardless if you want to. Luckily, you don't appear to be looking outside your achievable range. Your resolution is lower, meaning that you won't need as fast of a GPU as typical, unfortunately, it is very difficulty to find benchmarks at that resolution.

In this benchmark, given how your CPU performs, a 550ti sounds about right. You'll likely want to look at a newer card that fits the bill, as I don't think a 550ti is something you can find now.

If you plan to mod the heck out of the game, you may need something with more VRAM.

 

[roguebolt0]

You are going to need to look at reviews of the specific games, which include CPU benchmarks, and hopefully low end benchmarks.
Skyrim example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-9.html

Due to your lack of an OC on your CPU, you will not be able to achieve high FPS in many games, regardless if you want to. Luckily, you don't appear to be looking outside your achievable range. Your resolution is lower, meaning that you won't need as fast of a GPU as typical, unfortunately, it is very difficulty to find benchmarks at that resolution.

In this benchmark, given how your CPU performs, a 550ti sounds about right. You'll likely want to look at a newer card that fits the bill, as I don't think a 550ti is something you can find now.

If you plan to mod the heck out of the game, you may need something with more VRAM.

Thank you of course for giving me a solution for my problem. so to find one more available would i look for a card with similar g3d to the 550 ti?

also when you say lack of an OC(overclock?) on my cpu will keep me from achieving "high fps" do you mean like 30+, 60+, or 100+ fps?

 

[bystander]

also when you say lack of an OC(overclock?) on my cpu will keep me from achieving "high fps" do you mean like 30+, 60+, or 100+ fps?

That depends on the game. In some games, it'll be hard to reach 60 FPS, but in most, you should be able to get there. Of course there will be moments with bigger drops than others.

 

[Math Geek]

you are asking a tough question that has a relatively simple answer and also has some pretty complex answers. bottlenecking is very misunderstood and the word is thrown around a lot yet rarely means anything.

the idea of a bottleneck is that the cpu is unable to feed info to the gpu fast enough for it to run at it's best. a bad bottleneck can actually cause fps to drop off when it shows up. having read and seen a literal ton of benchmarks and reviews over the years, this is what i have seen about true bottlenecks. only a VERY old cpu paired with a VERY high end gpu will see much of a bottleneck. by old i mean 10 yr old single/dual core cpu's paired with a gtx titan!!

sure there can be a small bottleneck in other situations but nothing that will "cripple" the system and make it unplayable. your cpu is new enough and strong enough that unless you add a pair of 980's or the like, it won't ever have an issue. the last true bottleneck i saw was from a fx-4300 massively overclocked. it hit over 100 fps in bf4 on 1080p ultra on a 970. but when that was changed to a 980 it actually lose about 20 fps to about 85-90 fps. of course this is still very playable but clearly it should not have dropped when going to such a better gpu. this is an actual bottleneck in action.

again your cpu is much stronger and should not see any issues until you try running dual 980's or something crazy like that. but any single gpu will not see any issues. it is hard to say when exactly you will begin to see issues since you won't find any benchmarks for your cpu paired with such new gpu's. but experience has shown me what i have said here, it would take a pair of top end gpu's to cause it any trouble.

 

[bystander]

^ that all depends on the games you play. My i7 at 3.8Ghz to 4Ghz bottlenecks quite often, in the sense that my GPU is being held back. I do have a higher than average desire of 80+ FPS. Most FPS games are designed to run at high FPS, but there are many other types of games which require more horsepower. Skyrim is one such game, even though it will mostly run quite well, there are plenty of areas, such as in large towns, where FPS on his system will be around 40.

Example:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-9.html

Notice how improving the clock rates makes a notable difference in performance? His system will be a bit slower than the i5 at 3.0Ghz in the above chart.

 

[Math Geek]

generally, when folks speak of "bottleneck" it is a negative thing that somehow hurts the system overall. you are right that a faster cpu will create frames faster thus helping the fps, the chart is a nice roundup of that happening. however, this increase is no fault of the gpu and therefore not exactly an example of a "true bottleneck" that i spoke of. change the gpu to a better one and this linear improvement will remain, meaning that the gpu is not the problem but the cpu is. the op asked what gpu will prevent such fps drops and my answer is that no gpu will prevent it or cause it. the cpu limits itself and not the gpu. as you stated the fps is generally cpu bound.

there are times though when too strong of a gpu would cause lower fps than a weaker gpu in the same system. this is the actual bottleneck i speak of and what most are thinking of when they ask the question. this is why i say it is a simple yet complex answer. a better cpu will net better fps but this is not caused nor controlled by the gpu.

that is a nice chart that illustrates the points nicely. by any chance can you find other for the same cpu's with a different gpu? i would be willing to bet that the fps changes would also be very linear and controlled by the cpu and not the gpu as well.

does this make sense overall? i know it seems nit picky but the gpu is not the reason the fps changed and therefore is not much of a consideration and won't be "perfectly" matched to any given cpu. no cpu will ever be able to feed all a gpu can handle. your i7 is still unable to do it as you noted. with this in mind, it is unrealistic to expect any cpu/gpu combo to match performance unless you use a high end cpu with a low end gpu which is just silly with a new build the choice is really more matching price rather than performance. you want to balance the costs. a high end cpu with a low end gpu or vice versa does not make sense overall. this is not a performance consideration but rather a cost one. you want the best bang for the buck that meets the goals. once the system is built, then any upgrades are a different story. but basically a newer cpu will be good enough for most any gpu.

 

[bystander]

generally, when folks speak of "bottleneck" it is a negative thing that somehow hurts the system overall. you are right that a faster cpu will provide data faster thus helping the fps, the chart is a nice roundup of that happening. however, this increase is no fault of the gpu and therefore not exactly an example of a "true bottleck" that i spoke of. change the gpu to a better one and this linear improvement will remain, meaning that the gpu is not the problem but the cpu is. the op asked what gpu will prevent such fps drops and my answer is that no gpu will prevent it or cause it. the cpu limits itself and not the gpu. as you stated the fps is generally cpu bound.

there are times though when too strong of a gpu would cause lower fps than a weaker gpu in the same system. this is the actual bottleneck i speak of and what most are thinking of when they ask the question. this is why i say it is a simple yet complex answer. a better cpu will net better fps but this is not caused nor controlled by the gpu.

that is a nice chart that illustrates the points nicely. by any chance can you find other for the same cpu's with a different gpu? i would be willing to bet that the fps changes would also be very linear and controlled by the cpu and not the gpu as well.

does this make sense overall? i know it seems nit picky but the gpu is not the reason the fps changed and therefore is not much of a consideration and won't be "perfectly" matched to any given cpu.

Bottlenecks don't cause FPS drops and is not specific to the GPU or CPU, but we are talking about the CPU in this thread. Bottlenecks just prevent the GPU from performing at to full speed, not the GPU causing a problem. A true bottleneck looks like this, as in, no matter what GPU you provide, nothing will improve performance over what the CPU can provide. The Skyrim benchmarks avoid showing this due to them not providing high end GPU's on the lower setting benchmarks. However, this one shows it quite clearly:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/neverwinter-performance-benchmark,3495-8.html

The platform bottleneck is painfully evident. Though, since all of these graphics cards achieve at least 40 FPS, the result is fine.

I don't know where you got the idea that a bottleneck is when higher end GPU's cause a loss in performance, but it simply means its performance is held back from what it should be cable of due to another part. This other part is usually the CPU.

 

[Math Geek]

very nice point. this is where it gets complicated and also like you said "that all depends on the games you play" this is a great example of a cpu bound game. once again this is not a gpu issue in any way. if this was the only game you played, then obviously a strong cpu and lower quality gpu would be fine. what happens if you play a different game that is less cpu dependent but needs high end gpu's? the system would need both. i think this is what the op is trying to figure out. how can you tell what cpu/gpu combo is a good balance? no games were specified so i did not bother with any games in mind but rather in general

it seems that i am using "bottleneck" differently and causing confusion. in my mind a gpu bottleneck actually hurts performance which would be seen with a drop in fps when it should not. adding a better gpu would actually cause a drop in fps and not staying the same as you have shown happens in a cpu bound game. fps staying the same is a symptom of the game relying on the cpu more than the gpu rather than a mismatch of the cpu/gpu. for the fps to actually drop is hard to do and requires what i said before. a very mismatched cpu/gpu. i have seen it happen and is what i consider a true bottleneck.

i get what you are saying and showing and unless this is the only game one plays, i don't see any way to use the info. as you said many benchmarks and reviews will show one game this way and another a different way. in the end all things considered, i can't say i have seen a cpu/gpu combo that won't show such single game issues in one way or another. this is why the op has been so confused and why a lot of reading has not answered the question.

my answer does not change really. any decent newish cpu paired with just about any gpu will be good enough overall. a specific game may favor one or the other but in the overall balance of the system i see no way to definitively say "x" cpu goes/does not go with "y" gpu in all cases which is what the op is looking for.

thanks for the charts and making me think about my answer more. did make me stop and think for a moment to clarify my thoughts. 😀 i think we have both explained ourselves very well and whichever way the op wants to think of a bottleneck, he has 2 solid answers to consider.

 

[bystander]

In his 2nd post, he said he'll mainly be playing Skyrim, which is why I brought up that game.

Your definition is not a bottleneck at all, but something else entirely. A bottleneck is simply a case where performance is held back by another part. I gave examples of "CPU" bottlenecks. You also gave a case of a CPU bottleneck originally, but one that caused a loss of performance as you improved the GPU, which isn't really classified as far as I know. I'd guess the reason for a loss of performance with a new GPU was either a brand preference with the game, or just that the new GPU's weren't optimized for the game like the older one.

It does seem most people around the boards prefer a GPU bottleneck over a CPU one, so that a GPU upgrade results in more FPS. But I personally think you should be looking to find a balance. If you go too high end with your GPU purchase, with a slow CPU, you will be disappointed in the performance.

Note: I noticed you used the term "CPU bound". I'm not sure you are aware, but being CPU bound is just another way to say "bottlenecked by the CPU".

 

[roguebolt0]

In his 2nd post, he said he'll mainly be playing Skyrim, which is why I brought up that game.

Your definition is not a bottleneck at all, but something else entirely. A bottleneck is simply a case where performance is held back by another part. I gave examples of "CPU" bottlenecks. You also gave a case of a CPU bottleneck originally, but one that caused a loss of performance as you improved the GPU, which isn't really classified as far as I know. I'd guess the reason for a loss of performance with a new GPU was either a brand preference with the game, or just that the new GPU's weren't optimized for the game like the older one.

It does seem most people around the boards prefer a GPU bottleneck over a CPU one, so that a GPU upgrade results in more FPS. But I personally think you should be looking to find a balance. If you go too high end with your GPU purchase, with a slow CPU, you will be disappointed in the performance.

Note: I noticed you used the term "CPU bound". I'm not sure you are aware, but being CPU bound is just another way to say "bottlenecked by the CPU".

op here. im going to try and explain my main question in a different way real quick.

Lets say you had a cpu which was being held back by the gpu. And you wanted to upgrade the gpu with one that wont be holding the cpu back at all. how would you find a gpu that fits that criteria assuming you would just take what ever performance tht gives you?

 

[bystander]

If the CPU is being held back by the GPU, then most would not consider that a bottleneck. Most only consider it a problem when the GPU is being held back by the CPU.

In any case, in this scenario, it just means you can upgrade the GPU and see an improvement. The only way to determine just how fast of a GPU you can utilize is to Google benchmarks and reviews of the games you want to play. Take a look at the CPU benchmarks for the games you want (harder to find), and compare it to the GPU benchmarks.