[SOLVED] How to fix a 23 seconds delay from power button press to POST screen?

edytibi

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Hello!
My system has an i7 9700KF CPU, Asus Prime B360-Plus (latest BIOS) with 4 modules of 16GB DDR4 Kingston KVR26N19D8/16. The issue is as following: at cold boot (system unplugged from power source) from the moment I press the power button the CPU fan starts spinning, the LEDs from the motherboard come alive, but the starting beep and the POST screen appear after 23 seconds. I pulled out 2 modules of RAM and the delay shortened to 16 seconds.
Additional info:

1. I also use an old video card that will not boot using UEFI, and for which the BIOS loads CSM module

2.Only 2 modules of RAM work with RAM setting on auto. If I plug all 4 modules with settings on auto the start time increase to 1-2 minutes, the RAM will run at 2133MHz, and CL will be set at 15 in BIOS (despite the fact the modules have CL19). I used AI Tweaker and changed the values of CL, tRCD and tRAS to the correct values (19,19,43, from CPU-Z) with 2 modules installed, and after that I added the next 2 modules.Apart from that delay at start, the RAM runs at 2666MHz without any issue.I used TestMem5 as stress test and there were no errors.Also scanned all the 64GB of RAM with Windows Memory Diagnostic, and with MemTest86+.No issues.

3.The XMP otion is disabled and cannot be enabled, even if I use only 2 modules of RAM
Is there anything I can do to decrease that delay? I understand that other users have no delay from power button press to POST screen. My old ASUS P5QL Pro with Core 2 Quad Q9550 had no delay from Power Button to POST screen (4 modules of 2GB DDR2).
 

Karadjgne

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Ram is 2666MHz set. There is no XMP because the cpu memory controller on the 9700k runs at 2666MHz, so there is no (OC) value, which is what XMP is. Any lesser speeds are set by the jadec tables, 2133MHz being default DDR4.

As said above, 2 seperate kits, so will have different levels of compatibility. During memory training the cpu and bios will decide what's easiest and most compatible, which in your case happens to be the 2133MHz table. You may have better luck increasing VCCIO and/or VCCSA to give the memory controller a little more juice to work with concerning the memory compatibility. Whether the ram works at 2666MHz and whether the cpu likes working with 2666MHz are 2 different things.

There's 3 basic power stages with a psu. Working, Standby and no power. Working is After you push the power button, everything connected gets juice. No power is obvious, nothing gets powered and the battery must maintain anything in bios. Standby is partial power. A plugged in psu will power the motherboard, which includes USB ports, anything enabled by windows timers and bios.

You'll know if there's a battery issue because at post the bios time will be wrong, not getting updated until network drivers are loaded and your ISP syncs.
 

geofelt

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Check your CR2032 battery.
It is responsible for holding the bios settings when there is no power to the motherboard.

With 4 sticks of ram and not from the same kit, the internal specs will not match.
The motherboard bios must take time to find a common setting that works.
Usually this will be the default(lowest ) setting.

The ram is Kingston value ram and may not implement XMP.
You can specify settings, and probably increase the voltage to get the ram running as you want.
But if the cmos battery does not hold the settings you will have a delay.

Is there a reason why the pc is unplugged when not used?

You can do even better by using sleep to ram(no hibernate).
That puts the pc and monitor in a very low power state, almost like full power off.
 

Karadjgne

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Ram is 2666MHz set. There is no XMP because the cpu memory controller on the 9700k runs at 2666MHz, so there is no (OC) value, which is what XMP is. Any lesser speeds are set by the jadec tables, 2133MHz being default DDR4.

As said above, 2 seperate kits, so will have different levels of compatibility. During memory training the cpu and bios will decide what's easiest and most compatible, which in your case happens to be the 2133MHz table. You may have better luck increasing VCCIO and/or VCCSA to give the memory controller a little more juice to work with concerning the memory compatibility. Whether the ram works at 2666MHz and whether the cpu likes working with 2666MHz are 2 different things.

There's 3 basic power stages with a psu. Working, Standby and no power. Working is After you push the power button, everything connected gets juice. No power is obvious, nothing gets powered and the battery must maintain anything in bios. Standby is partial power. A plugged in psu will power the motherboard, which includes USB ports, anything enabled by windows timers and bios.

You'll know if there's a battery issue because at post the bios time will be wrong, not getting updated until network drivers are loaded and your ISP syncs.
 

falcon291

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Jul 17, 2019
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1. Your mainboard, actually not the mainboard but the chipset is why XMP settings do not work on your computer.
Which Intel motherboard should I buy? Z390, Z370, H370, B360 and H310 | PCWorld
I also have 9700K, but my mainboard is Rog Strix, Z390, my memory runs at 3200 Mhz, and higher speeds are even possible.

2. There can be a compatibility issue between your RAM. I would try different modules together, check the serials of the RAM and find the pairs.

3. 16 or 23 seconds after a hard reset just does not seem that long to me. Thinking about the amount of RAM, 64 GB for your case, (my computer now has 16 GB), taking it a bit longer might be possible I guess.
 

Karadjgne

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Most pc's with sata/nvme based OS, only take 20-30 seconds for a full boot sequence and open up a web page. The POST taking the first 5-8 or so seconds and another 3 seconds for bios open pause.

The only pc's not really following that are the new AMD AM5 platforms that go through memory training after every power interruption and can 'boot' several times before finding the best stable combination.

Taking 20± seconds for POST is a hardware level issue as software has not been introduced yet. It can actually be caused by driver conflicts, especially network drivers, but mainly because of some incompatibility between ram and the memory controller.

Can also be landed at the feet of a craptastic psu or motherboard where correct voltages are not going where they are initially supposed to.
 

edytibi

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Nov 8, 2014
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Thank you all for the replys.
The battery is fine, the BIOS always remember my settings. At first it refused to use my manual values for CL, tRCD, tRAS, but the values were there instead of Auto, and actual values completely different
I always unplug the power source due to paranoia. I noticed that even in soft power off the leds from my network adapter were blinking, and found out that Intel Management Engine runs even when the system is shut down.So no juice for it when I don't use the workstation.
Indeed the modules have different manufactureres, one pair use Hynix chips and other Nanya, but with the same primary timings. The pairs were correctly placed in A2+B2 slots Hynix and A1+B1 slots Nanya, otherwise I get no POST screen no matter how long I wait.
If memory training takes so long, can't I use the good values it gets for secondary and tertiary timings, to put them on manual and avoid the whole process?
It's fine by me to run at 2666MHz, the maximum speed for the memory controller and RAM. I thought that XMP store the optimal values for RAM timings and there will be no need for memory training. Please note that when all is on Auto the start time is 60-120 seconds with RAM at 2133MHz, as opposed to 23 seconds with RAM at 2666MHz. I'd say that without manual indications memory training crap itself and use wrong values.
Conclusion - my memory controller does not like all 4 RAM modules and that's why the startup take this long. Further reading prohibited the manual values for secondary and tertiary timings, those timing are for Memory Training to establish.
LE: I noticed that with a single module the delay is always 6 seconds, so it's a linear increase, every new module add another 6 seconds. Even with Fast Boot after AC Power loss enable there is no change.
 
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Karadjgne

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I always unplug the power source due to paranoia. I noticed that even in soft power off the leds from my network adapter were blinking, and found out that Intel Management Engine runs even when the system is shut down.
Soft power off is just your standard Windows shutdown procedure. The confusion most have is that they assume windows is off, by whatever means, therefore the pc is off. It isn't. The pc is in a Standby state. That's a low power mode, the pc being a separate entity to the OS. Your motherboard, the USB ports, even the mouse and keyboard and Lan can all remain active, with the OS shut down. The blinking lights on the network port are ping traffic signals from your ISP. All those lights mean is the router checking for connection and getting a positive answer. It's the kid in the backseat asking 'are we there yet?' and mom in the front seat answering 'No'....

I thought that XMP store the optimal values for RAM timings and there will be no need for memory training.
XMP is eXtreme Memory Profile. It's a generic setting for that entire series of ram, so regardless of which actual ram stick is used is used, every stick in that model will have the same results. Silicon is very susceptible to the Lottery, there's always tiny differences and some silicon inevitably works better, or OC's better, or worse. So the XMP is set to cover All, the good, the bad and the ugly.

By that alone, it's impossible to Optimize. The XMP settings are not optimal in any way, they are generic for a reason. It's an OC value every stick can deal with, as tested by the factory. Inevitably that means it's possible to tweak your ram for better timings, but possible is not probable. You may have Golden silicon that'll get much better timings, or Lead silicon that'll barely work with the XMP settings as is.

Memory training is two-fold process. It's the bios reading the settings as is, attempting to set them and if they work bios moves on to the next instruction. If the settings are not stable as tested, bios will try them again, and again, just in case there was an error in testing, and if that all fails, bios will revert to the last known viable settings. If there are no last known settings, bios will either revert to complete default settings or toss up an error led and quit trying.

Apart from Ryzen AM5, memory training is basically bios adjusting to whether the memory controller can deal with the ram timings as set or if it has to go worse in order to work. Only AM5 goes in the other direction by actively changing the timings in order to get better performance.

Ryzen 1/2/3 have issues with 4 sticks, only 5/7 doesn't. Ryzen 1 are lucky to get anything beyond 2133MHz, Ryzen 2 might get to 2666MHz, Ryzen 3 maybe gets 3200 if Samsung B-die, normally 2933MHz is top. And that can be depending on the ram, whether it's single rank or dual rank (not to be confused with single/dual channel). That's a cpu chipset limitation in the memory controller as dealing with infinity fabric.

When mixing ram kits of Any sort, there's only 3 possible outcomes. It works, it works with adjustments, it doesn't work. That's it. If you have to adjust any 1 thing to get it to work, you are in catagory #2. That could mean adjusting timings, adjusting ram voltages, memory controller voltages, cpu OC, i/o voltages and more.
 
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