How to Identify CPU limitation?

[jaykal001]

I've found this tough to identify thus far, maybe it's a wording / terminology problem. I'm trying to relate a CPU to a network with two components: 1) True up/down speed and 2) bandwidth or throughput.

I'm working on the premise that my CPU is a bottleneck. Yes, of course I could upgrade to an i5 or i7, but i'm trying to postpone it for a year or so.
I'm using a standard FX6300 (not OC'd) and GTX 970.

Question:
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What I'm trying to learn / understands is how to identify how this actually bottlenecks. If I watch "CPU utilization" I see it hover at 40% - 60%, I'm trying to figure out of my CPU should be doing more? Would over-clocking actually gain me anything? When all I see is a utilization percantage, I don't know to identify a higher clockspeed would actually help. (Or if I should just leave physics settings off and be done with it)

Primary purpose is gaming - thanks for the note kanewolf

Thanks in advance! Jay

 

[kanewolf]

You don't identify what you are doing with the PC described. A 50% utilization could be a limitation if the software you are using has only 1 or 2 threads (not parallel). You might overclock and your performance experience will improve, but your utilization will stay the same.

 

[Ecky]

Generally speaking, watching overall CPU utilization is not all that helpful. Most games (and I assume this is in relation to games) will only utilize 2-4 of your FX-6300's cores, which would mean that even if those cores are maxed out and bottlenecking, you may not see more than 33-66% CPU usage in task manager.

Try this: lower resolution and/or graphical settings. If your framerate goes up significantly, your CPU still has some power on tap to deliver more frames. If lowering graphical settings does not improve your framerate significantly, your CPU is at its limits.

 

[jaykal001]

Generally speaking, watching overall CPU utilization is not all that helpful. Most games (and I assume this is in relation to games) will only utilize 2-4 of your FX-6300's cores, which would mean that even if those cores are maxed out and bottlenecking, you may not see more than 33-66% CPU usage in task manager.

Try this: lower resolution and/or graphical settings. If your framerate goes up significantly, your CPU still has some power on tap to deliver more frames. If lowering graphical settings does not improve your framerate significantly, your CPU is at its limits.

So this part of the question though. I can lower setting to get improvement. When i enable physics i drop from 60ish to 40ish fps. What I can't wrap my head around is if there is a measurement for throughput of the CPU, if i'm not pushing enough info per cycle, or not pushing it fast enough, or both. Is there even a measurement for that sort of troubleshooting?

I know a lot of people can answer based off direct comparison from upgrades and such, but i'm trying to understand as much as I can as well.

 

[Ecky]

"What I can't wrap my head around is if there is a measurement for throughput of the CPU, if i'm not pushing enough info per cycle, or not pushing it fast enough, or both. Is there even a measurement for that sort of troubleshooting?"

I don't really understand what you're asking. Are you looking for a benchmark to compare CPUs with, or are you looking to find out if your current CPU is the limiting factor in your game performance?

 

[jaykal001]

"What I can't wrap my head around is if there is a measurement for throughput of the CPU, if i'm not pushing enough info per cycle, or not pushing it fast enough, or both. Is there even a measurement for that sort of troubleshooting?"

I don't really understand what you're asking. Are you looking for a benchmark to compare CPUs with, or are you looking to find out if your current CPU is the limiting factor in your game performance?

I'm trying to find out of OC'ing the CPU is worth the effort. If the clockspeed isn't the problem, but rather is a problem about the amount of work per cycle, then will increasing the clock-speed actually have a positive effect? But since CPU usage is shown as a percentage I'm not sure which part causes the bottlenecking.

 

[kanewolf]

You can't change the amount the CPU can do per clock. The term you see is "IPC" -- instructions per clock. AMD CPUs have a lower IPC than Intel. You can't change the number of CPUs a specific program uses. That is determined by the software engineers that wrote the code. The only thing you can change is clock speed.

You keep forgetting parallelism. Your FX6300 has 6 logical cores and 3 physical cores. Each of those 3 cores can preform X number of instructions per second (based on IPC and clock speed). CPU usage is based on the 6 cores you have. 50% utilization may mean all 6 are 1/2 used OR 3 are maxed out. Same 50%. If you have a game that will run 1 processing thread (everything sequentially) then the ONLY thing you can do is change the clock speed to speed up that specific game. If a different game can run 3, 5, or 9 things in parallel then you can add more cores to allow more physical resources to be used in parallel.

 

[jaykal001]

I just had that thought i terms of math too, and maybe thought i'm just over-thinking this.
Total Results = GHz Z * IPC - In theory even if i just bump up the GHz, i should still get an overall increase.
(I definitely get that this may not matter from one game to the next).

Appreciate the feedback for sure.

 

[madmatt30]

Overclocking your 6300 will help for gaming with a 970 - that's a god given fact mate plain & simple.

If you're running completely stock settings then you are undercutting yourself performance wise.

4.2ghz will give you 60fps solid in just about any AAA title currently available.

If that floats your boat you should do it , motherboard, PSU & cooler permitting.

What you'll never be able to to with any fx chip is sufficiently power a 100htz+ screen with 100fps+ because the IPC just isn't there.
The fx chips are comfortable at 60fps , not really any more than that.

 

[madmatt30]

The easiest way to ascertain a CPU limitation ingame is simply to drop resolution to 720p rather than 1080p, leaving all other ingame settings the same as usual.

An fps increase means the GPU is the limitation in that particular instance , if the fps stay the same then you have a CPU limitation

 

[jaykal001]

Overclocking your 6300 will help for gaming with a 970 - that's a god given fact mate plain & simple.

If you're running completely stock settings then you are undercutting yourself performance wise.

4.2ghz will give you 60fps solid in just about any AAA title currently available.

If that floats your boat you should do it , motherboard, PSU & cooler permitting.

What you'll never be able to to with any fx chip is sufficiently power a 100htz+ screen with 100fps+ because the IPC just isn't there.
The fx chips are comfortable at 60fps , not really any more than that.

For sure, and noted. I'm in not way thinking that I can make a $500 PC run like a $5000 PC
I'm in the process of moving to a new house, so i'm just post-poning some upgrades until I moved and get settled, and build out the new office. I got a smoking deal on the GTX 970 from a buddy who constantly upgrades, and didn't realize until I got in game that I was as cpu limited as I actually am.

 

[madmatt30]

What game exactly are you talking about that drops to 40fps if you enable physx??

I'm running a 6300+970 & barring arma based games & arc survival I'm not aware of anything I can't currently run at a constant 60fps on (& I do have an awful lot of games)

 

[jaykal001]

What game exactly are you talking about that drops to 40fps if you enable physx??

I'm running a 6300+970 & barring arma based games & arc survival I'm not aware of anything I can't currently run at a constant 60fps on (& I do have an awful lot of games)

Playing Heroes of the Storm @ 1080P. Graphics all on "extreme" - but physics off, and I stick where i'm good with. I'm not running a high refresh monitor or anything. As soon as I set in game physics to "high" - which is the lowest ragdoll type setting (and honestly at the only point where I can actually see anything in game changing) - then I get the drop to more like 40fps.

 

[madmatt30]

Possibly one of the worst optimised games of all time, blizzard game using the sc2 engine.

With physics on high anything less than a haswell clocked to 4ghz will drop below 60fps in battles.

 

[jaykal001]

Possibly one of the worst optimised games of all time, blizzard game using the sc2 engine.

With physics on high anything less than a haswell clocked to 4ghz will drop below 60fps in battles.

Another fact I have learned
Thanks again for all the info.