[SOLVED] How to know if it's a dead motherboard or dead PSU?

[iamhady]

Hey guys,

Yesterday I was on CS:GO with a friend and I got up to get something got back and found the PC completely off. I tried turning it on but that did not work.
The first thing that came to my mind that the PSU probably died after a couple of years of use. (I had one die before) but I wanted to troubleshoot the issue to be 100% sure before buying a new one because I don't know if I can return it for no reason if it's not the PSU.

Things I noticed,

• My mouse which has RGB in it only blinks for half a second every few seconds when plugged in. (somehow power reaches it but not constant power)
• The case fan, CPU fan, case light strip, LEDs, system speaker all show no response to pressing the power button. (no beep, nothing spinning)

I've been troubleshooting and viewing posts here all night but they all have at least something different (I did check the sticky thread and went beyond what steps are there)
here are the results:

PSU
PSU is not fried, has no smell coming out of it or any weird noises (just the fan's noise)
Tried two power cables on it to make sure the cable is fine
Jumped it with the paperclip method and its fan started spinning normally. (again no weird sounds or smells)
Connected it to the microcontroller that powers my case, the fan spins and lights up.
I know that doesn't mean the PSU is capable of supplying enough power but I don't know what more I could test it on.

MOBO
Assembled it outside the case and made sure everything is connected properly.
Plugged in the system speaker and the power switch from the case and tried turning it on, PSU fan and CPU fan don't spin, no beeps or anything.
Tried with one stick of RAM, tried with none, nothing.
I tried connecting the pins with a screwdriver and a paperclip, nothing.
All with the GPU disassembled.
* My mouse blinks for less than half a second every ~2 seconds when plugged in MOBO with PSU plugged in, don't know what that means but could mean something for someone who's more knowledgable.

The sad thing is, I was starting to upgrade my PC parts. I had already bought an i7-4770 (in shipping) and was thinking of getting a new GPU.

My PC specs are:

• Gigabyte H81M-S2PT (rev 1.1)
• i3-4130 w stock cooler
• 2x4GB DDR3 1600Mhz Geil memory
• Sapphire Toxic R9 270x 2GB
• Thermaltake Litepower 550W

^ everything listed except the PSU was bought used a few years back, the PSU was new from about 2-3 years ago.
I understand everything has a lifespan and they don't all work for 10 years but I want to identify what's causing the problem so I can replace it
(I can't afford to buy the two of them, not at this time we're going through plus I still want to upgrade my GPU)

How can I make sure it's a dead motherboard for example? It's a LGA1150 motherboard I'll have to buy a used one from ebay or something, and it won't be cheap due to prices increasing.
Can I order a PSU to test and return it if it's the mobo? even though the PSU is fully functional? I've read some people doing so but I'm not familiar with returning items and the policies.
I've Amazon.it and Ebay.it at my disposal thankfully.

Appreciate any help as my PC is my only form of entertainment right now (and freelance work from time to time)
Thanks!

 

[Mrgr74]

Hi @iamhady

Do you have another PC or a friends PC you could try the PSU in? If not, there are a few options you could try. One of which is to buy a PSU checker which will detect the power levels. Something like this for example. (There are others that cost less and cost more)

You could buy a new PSU &/or mobo and hope that that that is the problem, but if you do and still have the same issue, then you'd be stuck with a new & un-needed PS or mobo.

There is a chance that your mobo is bad &/or your CPU. While rare, a CPU can just die. The same for a mobo. I've had both happen. An older AM2 mobo and a really old Phenom 2 Tri-Core CPU (different systems & so unrelated) both of which just up and died as though a switch was flipped.

There is hardware that you can buy to check if a mobo is bad. Such as this.

Did you try plugging the PC into a different outlet? (Did the breaker trip is what I'm getting at)

 

[DSzymborski]

Swapping out the PSU first makes sense - you can only really tell what's going on by swapping out parts. Given that it's a low-quality PSU that you didn't even buy new, I would be replacing it under any and all circumstances, so as a first step I think it's a no-brainer. Don't forget that even if the motherboard is dead, it being caused, directly or indirectly, by a junk PSU is quite possible.

 

[iamhady]

Hi @iamhady

Do you have another PC or a friends PC you could try the PSU in? If not, there are a few options you could try. One of which is to buy a PSU checker which will detect the power levels. Something like this for example. (There are others that cost less and cost more)

You could buy a new PSU &/or mobo and hope that that that is the problem, but if you do and still have the same issue, then you'd be stuck with a new & un-needed PS or mobo.

There is a chance that your mobo is bad &/or your CPU. While rare, a CPU can just die. The same for a mobo. I've had both happen. An older AM2 mobo and a really old Phenom 2 Tri-Core CPU (different systems & so unrelated) both of which just up and died as though a switch was flipped.

There is hardware that you can buy to check if a mobo is bad. Such as this.

Did you try plugging the PC into a different outlet? (Did the breaker trip is what I'm getting at)

I do not have any friends here that have a gaming PC (not even in my home country) but my father's really old PC is around in the old apartment. Would it be fine for the parts to test them with an older (probably not a known brand) PSU?

Wouldn't the motherboard maybe beep if the CPU is faulty or would it also act the same way? I mean if there's a way to know which one it is because I already have an i7 on the way so I'd be glad if it's just the CPU.

I can't plug it directly to a wall because it's too thin but the outlet works with my laptop charger and with the paperclip test.

Thanks for the links, I might buy one of those tools if I can't find the old PC.

 

[DSzymborski]

Without knowing what the parts are, it's hard to say whether it's warranted. Who knows what quality this PSU is.

 

[iamhady]

Swapping out the PSU first makes sense - you can only really tell what's going on by swapping out parts. Given that it's a low-quality PSU that you didn't even buy new, I would be replacing it under any and all circumstances, so as a first step I think it's a no-brainer. Don't forget that even if the motherboard is dead, it being caused, directly or indirectly, by a junk PSU is quite possible.

I'll look for the old PC in the old apartment and try the PSU on it or it's PSU on the MOBO with CPU (although those parts are probably very old)
I actually did buy the PSU new, it was thermaltake (which is a branded one, still) and in Egypt when I was there it was the only one available at the time for 55-60$ USD so I didn't really cheap out but I also didn't know about gold certifications or such at the time.

 

[gondo]

Those certifications only refer to efficiency,,,,not quality. Put your PSU into the old computer to test it out. If it works I'd be replacing the motherboard.

But you are on a 4th gen CPU while 10th gen is current. Maybe it's time for an upgrade rather than throwing money into a sinking ship.

 

[iamhady]

Those certifications only refer to efficiency,,,,not quality. Put your PSU into the old computer to test it out. If it works I'd be replacing the motherboard.

But you are on a 4th gen CPU while 10th gen is current. Maybe it's time for an upgrade rather than throwing money into a sinking ship.

I was planning on buying a whole new PC but I compared the i7-4770 to a Ryzen 5 2600 (about the same price here) and the performance wasn't that big to justify a whole new system upgrade. (I bought the i7, it's being shipped to me right now and the system failed after that)

 

[geofelt]

My guess is a bad psu.
Paper clip test is good only to confirm a dead psu.
For checking proper operation, it is worthless.
Ditto cheap psu testers.

The only good way would be to test using a known good psu.
If you try the psu from the old pc, do not connect any discrete graphics card, plan on testing with the integrated graphics.
Thermaltake litepower is a tier 6 unit on this list and is worthy of replacement regardless:

PSU Tier List [OLD]

Credit to @Starelementpokeand @Energycore for helping out with this long-awaited refresh of the old PSU tier list by Aniallation (who previously went several months without logging in), leaving the old list in need of help. This is simply an update of the list that was flawed in creation by the P...

linustechtips.com

Look for a tier 1/2 unit, no less than tier3.
Do not worry about bronze/gold type specs. that is only an efficiency rating and has little connection to quality.
Quality is important since a poor psu can damage anything it is connected to if it should fail under load.

If you can, buy a replacement from a shop with a decent return policy.
Expect to pay a 15% restocking fee at least if you want to return it.

 

[gondo]

Wow bad luck. Is there a shop nearby you could bring the system to for swapping parts? Honestly it could be anything. Instead of paying a shop $100 to troubleshoot sometimes it's best to replace the most logical piece and keep working from there until you find the culprit.

For example try the following in order:
Replace motherboard - no go
replace psu - no go
new cpu - no go
memory - yes it boots.

You would then know your memory was bad and have a second motherboard, psu, and cpu as spares or to sell or use towards a second pc. The realities of a computer....sux but it is what it is. The good news is that there are only 4 parts to check, motherboard, cpu, ram, and psu. And from what your describing it sounds like either PSU or motherboard. You could build a cheap computer from the leftover parts and sell it as a whole system.

I remember once I bought a new motherboard for a bad system. I then realized I needed an upgraded firmware for an SSD to solve my problem so I had purchased a motherboard for nothing. I was smart though in that I bought a current gen motherboard and bought a new cpu/ram at the same time. I then had a set of old board/cpu/ram I sold to a friend to upgrade his system. I lost some money in the process but it was the cost of the upgrade and i was able to sell the old components.

 

[iamhady]

Okay quick update, I've brought the old PC, has a PSU with the name "TOP" so I'm definitely not trying it.

I did, however, test the Thermaltake PSU on it (has only a 20 pin and no 4/8 pin) the PC POSTS! System speaker gives a short beep (success?) CPU fan spins and the front LED lights on all from the 20 pin so that rules out the PSU?

I didn't know Thermaltake would be so low in quality, I thought they'd outsource the manufacturing to a better company. I probably will upgrade the PSU with the GPU upgrade but for now do I wait for my i7-4770 to test in case it's the CPU or do I buy a new MOBO?

Thank you all for replying though!

 

[geofelt]

You need to sort out your current problem first.

The fact that thethermaltake runs is not confirmation of any kind. Perhaps the +4 of the 24 pin connector is the issue.
The gpu of a pc is the critical component of determining the psu wattage needed.
Here is a handy chart:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
Consider the graphics upgrade you have in mind.
I have no problem overprovisioning a PSU a bit. Say 20%.
It will allow for a stronger future graphics card upgrade.
It will run cooler, quieter, and more efficiently in the middle third of it's range.
A PSU will only use the wattage demanded of it, regardless of it's max capability.
I would first buy a quality psu replacement that will run your desired graphics card upgrade.

If it runs your motherboard, well and good.

If no joy, assume your motherboard is dead.

What to do next??

You will clearly need a new motherboard if the old one is bad.
I see some refurb units available on newegg for about $80.
You will have some protection if one does not work properly.
Check to see that any unit comes with the rear I/O plate.

Had you not already bought a i7-4770 replacement, I might have suggested a current gen rebuild of cpu/mobo/ddr4.

 

[iamhady]

You need to sort out your current problem first.

The fact that thethermaltake runs is not confirmation of any kind. Perhaps the +4 of the 24 pin connector is the issue.
The gpu of a pc is the critical component of determining the psu wattage needed.
Here is a handy chart:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
Consider the graphics upgrade you have in mind.
I have no problem overprovisioning a PSU a bit. Say 20%.
It will allow for a stronger future graphics card upgrade.
It will run cooler, quieter, and more efficiently in the middle third of it's range.
A PSU will only use the wattage demanded of it, regardless of it's max capability.
I would first buy a quality psu replacement that will run your desired graphics card upgrade.

If it runs your motherboard, well and good.

If no joy, assume your motherboard is dead.

What to do next??

You will clearly need a new motherboard if the old one is bad.
I see some refurb units available on newegg for about $80.
You will have some protection if one does not work properly.
Check to see that any unit comes with the rear I/O plate.

Had you not already bought a i7-4770 replacement, I might have suggested a current gen rebuild of cpu/mobo/ddr4.

I see. I hope I don't come off as naive in my replies, I was just planning to upgrade the CPU and MAYBE the GPU but all of this happened and I'll have to buy a MOBO + PSU which will stop me from upgrading the GPU.

The i7-4770 was the best value over a new build since my uses are gaming + UI design (the most demanding game I play has an i7-4790 as recommended so, for just a 100 euros I'd be close enough to a Ryzen 5 2600 which isn't bad)

The mouse does flicker for less than half a second every two seconds when connected to the motherboard, that means it can't provide enough power to it?

If I get a PSU tester and check the values is there hope that the PSU is performing well to keep or should I just throw it completely based on the tier list?
I'd think if it can run a whole system through the 20 pin it should at least deliver enough power to at least spin the CPU fan or the system speaker.

 

[geofelt]

Do not waste any money on any psu tester that costs less than $5000.
Bad voltages from simple psu tester can confirm a bad psu, but can not confirm proper working of a good psu.

 

[Mrgr74]

Do not waste any money on any psu tester that costs less than $5000.
Bad voltages from simple psu tester can confirm a bad psu, but can not confirm proper working of a good psu.

$13.99 is hardly a waste of money, especially to test if the PSU is sending power vs blindly buying a new PSU altogether. (Regardless if he should due to his current PSU's quality) However, I should have clarified it was to test if there was power & not a reliable load test of the PSU itself, so thank you for mentioning that.

@iamhady

At this point, it's hard to say. You could buy the tester, test the PSU, it shows everything is fine but your system still won't boot due to the PSU still actually being bad. The same for your mobo. You may buy as new mobo and your CPU is bad. Or you might buy a mobo and all turns out well. Same for buying a new PSU. I know this is a wishy-washy answer, but unfortunately it's not a black & white issue and we don't have the PC actually here in front of us.

Do you have a cell to game on? I'd suggest you return the i7 when it arrives and save up for a new system. Your current system is DDR3. While not bad per se, it is older gen and you will notice a boost if you upgraded. Anyone that says otherwise, tell them to go back to DDR3 era tech and see what they say. (That is if they aren't already there lol!) It's really not worth putting more $ into that era hardware unless absolutely necessary. Not to mention you'd have warranties and the fact that the equipment was new. Not a guarantee you won't have issues even when new, but you get my point.

Regardless of what you do, keep in mind that a quality PSU is more important than most people think as they are not all created equal.

 

[iamhady]

@Mrgr74 exactly, that's why I'm hesitant of buying more than the CPU that I'd bought.
Would any of the parts that I have be worth selling?
Also, I bought the i7 in an auction, can I return it with no reason after it arrives?

If I can get 250-300 euros for all the parts (including the i7 if refunded or sold) I can afford to build a whole new system but I doubt they can sell for that especially with a faulty mobo.
I just can't have the PC laying around with working parts and start building one soon.

 

[gondo]

And your Gigabyte motherboard has onboard video so unplug your video card. You should only your RAM and CPU on your motherboard to test it, and of course a monitor. Not even a hard is required to enter a BIOS. ou already have a new CPU on the way so all that is left is the motherboard to determine the problem. I bet your PSU is good since it was previously working.

There are rare times when a certain PSU won't boot a particular motherboard, but a different model of PSU works due to voltage tolerances. But yours was working so that's not the problem. I'm guessing motherboard.

If you could find one cheap on EBAY or something you could be in business.

 

[geofelt]

If you bought on ebay, you can usually return what you bought if you pay shipping cost both ways.
Look at the listing details.
For prices, look for the item in used condition on ebay and filter on completed auctions.
In green, you will see what the item actually sold for.

I doubt you could get anything for your motherboard or psu unless you could guarantee that they worked.

 

[iamhady]

@gondo @geofelt so I'm better off buying a motherboard for about 70 euros and if that works I can at least sell the whole PC as a mid-range used gaming PC? Would it sell for 400 or something?
I can't find a similar spec sold PC on ebay but ones with the same CPU without a GPU sell for 200-350.

Sounds like a much better option rather than returning the CPU and being left with useless PC parts.
If I can do that, I'll have no interest in selling the motherboard if it's faulty anyways, I'd then build a new PC.

But I've no experience in selling PCs or anything on ebay so I'm not sure I can pull it off.

 

[geofelt]

My plan would be to buy a quality psu of sufficient power to handle a future graphics upgrade.
That gets you out of a possibly bad and/or dangerous psu.
If that does the job, you can keep the motherboard and use the 4770.

If the new psu still does not make the motherboard work, you will have confirmed a bad motherboard that you can junk.
You can then look for another lga 1150 motherboard.
Most any will do the job.

As to selling at auction, like ebay it takes a bit of experience.
You will need a bank account and credit card.
That is how I sell my old stuff whenever I upgrade.
I am happy with whatever I salvage and by buyers get a good item at a price they can afford.

 

[mdd1963]

We can hope it is just a new $50 PSU required. (Were it my system, it would be the PSU and mainboard, and, the new mainboard received (a month later for shipping delays) would be DOA out of the box)

 

[iamhady]

My plan would be to buy a quality psu of sufficient power to handle a future graphics upgrade.
That gets you out of a possibly bad and/or dangerous psu.
If that does the job, you can keep the motherboard and use the 4770.

If the new psu still does not make the motherboard work, you will have confirmed a bad motherboard that you can junk.
You can then look for another lga 1150 motherboard.
Most any will do the job.

As to selling at auction, like ebay it takes a bit of experience.
You will need a bank account and credit card.
That is how I sell my old stuff whenever I upgrade.
I am happy with whatever I salvage and by buyers get a good item at a price they can afford.

I didn't know about the bad reputation of the Litepower series because I've never searched for it, anyways I'll buy a better PSU but I've tried searching for some of the ones on the top of the tier list they're mostly way over 200 euros, isn't that a bit overkill for a system like this?
I've my eyes on the Corsair SF600 which should be enough wattage for my current and an RX580-590 upgrade in the future. (Also SFX which I might downsize my PC as well while upgrading it)
I doubt anything of the top two tiers would be less than the 120 euros of the SF600 anyway.

@mdd1963 I was just looking at a CPU upgrade for 110 euros, but now I've to spend probably 190 more euros (which is 300 euros total while only "upgrading" the CPU) on a PSU + MOBO since all the troubleshooting leads me to believe it's a dead mobo. 🙁

 

[geofelt]

Do you realize that the corsair SF600 is not a standard ATX psu but a smaller SFX format,
It will not fit into a normal case without an adapter or case modification.
Do you have a link as to where you might shop?
Usually, the Corsair CX550 grey units (not green) are reasonably priced tier 3 units.

 

[gondo]

At least putting money into a good psu is a good investment. You can use it for future upgrades.

There is only a handful of OEM power supply manufacturers on the market. Most brands just contract these OEMs out to make their power supply. You'll find different power supplies that all use the same guts. Thermaltake, uses OEM and doesn't do any power supplies in house, which isn't a bad thing. Seasonic is an OEM and makes their own as well as other brands of power supplies. You need to filter through this confusing info and just make an informed decision.

Why would you make your own power supply when you can have a a plant in China or Taiwan manufacture it for less money using a proven and tested design and quality Japanese components? That's why you see every brand with a line of power supplies, it's too easy too just contract it out. And us stupid consumers want a corsair power supply if we have a corsair case so the names match. Or Thermaltake, or Antec, or CoolerMaster, etc...

http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.html

Check out this link. It'll tell you the OEM that made every power supply on the market and a link to reviews. Any power supply you find in stock at your local reseller should be looked up before biting the bullet.

 

[iamhady]

@geofelt Yes, I judged by the update tier list here (updated one from your link) and figured if I'll keep the PC and not sell it I'll upgrade the PSU and buy a mini-itx case with the itx board I found on ebay.
Also since I'm replacing a possibly fully functional PSU purely based on quality I might as well bite the bullet and shouldn't go for a lower-tier so I checked the tier A ones. (SF ones also tier 1 on the old thread)

Even though there's an EVGA 450 GM for just 75 euros which is also tier A I think 450w are not enough for my current r9 270x or the future rx 580-590 upgrade. 120 euros it is. (this is all on Amazon.it)

One question, on Corsair's site the PSU has a seven years warranty, I still get that 7 years if I buy it through Amazon or any online retailers here?

@gondo I checked the Corsair SF600 and seems to have 3 perfect reviews (9, 9.7+, GOLD) so I'll go off that.