Question How to register SanDisk Ultra Flash Drive to my Panasonic DVD recorder ?

[Michael5of9]

A very good day to you all on Tom’s Hardware

I would be very grateful for help with this issue;

This is my Panasonic DMR-EX97EB-K DVD Recorder; https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DMR-EX97EB-K-DVD-Recorder-Freeview/dp/B015341TLG

I bought a 256GB SanDisk Ultra USB 3.0 Flash Drive to archive stored recordings on my Panasonic DVD Recorder. https://www.westerndigital.com/en-g...ves/sandisk-ultra-usb-3-0?sku=SDCZ48-256G-U46

Photos and screenshots via Google Drive; https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1s2rowUKAxu0VYGCb1JqOYImH-zPIaqoQ?usp=sharing

When trying to register SanDisk to the Panasonic recorder; the recorder detects it and says that the USB size has to be between 160 GB and a 1 terabit, which it is, see SanDisk Registration photo.

I have re-formatted the SanDisk drive using my Windows 10 PC, several times, this has made no difference and Disk Genius.

I have tried connecting another flash drive; one that I only use for making backups of my PC files, a Buffalo HD-PNT1.0U3B-EU 1TB MiniStation Plus USB 3.0 2.5 Inch External Hard Drive, yes this drive would register to the Panasonic recorder, see Buffalo Registration photo, have photo of drive and cable, no online reference available now for this drive, purchased June 2014.

Panasonic Customer Care Team have given me this information quote “In response to your email, the USB device must be formatted in FAT12, FAT16 , FAT32 or NTFS file system.” end quote.

Notes: The Buffalo offers USB 3.0 support and backward compatibility with USB 2.0, providing interface speeds up to 5 Gbps; this is also the same as the SanDisk, USB SanDisk Version: 3.2Gen 1
Max Transmission Rate: 5 Gb/s apart from the version?

See the two screenshots via Disk Genius showing information on each drive, I have little understanding about this issue or if it can be resolved, thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Ralston18]

Post the screenshots here via imgur (www.imgur.com).

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

my Panasonic DMR-EX97EB-K DVD Recorder

your link is inaccurate/inadequate.
all it does is link to a search parameter in Amazon, not any specific model.
you need to find an actual product page link for the specs of this device to be available.

it may be a bit more tedious, but if your 1TB drive is recognized,
why not just copy there and then transfer the files to wherever you want to house them?

i've seen many times where DVRs and other video(VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray) "copy" systems just are not compatible with a wide array of drives(thumb, flash, external HD, etc).
it may not be possible to configure this SanDisk to be properly detected and aligned with the system.

 

[BFG-9000]

Presumably the registration process is unable to find any service tracks on the drive to write the hidden registration info to, or it (and DiskGenius) is unable to read the Volume GUID number of the SanDisk, or the GUID really is all zeroes which the registration process outright rejects.

The latter two are most likely given how the registration process is thought to work.

 

[Michael5of9]

Q. There seems to be a technical difference between the Buffalo and the SanDisk drives?
Q. Either SanDisk or Panasonic is giving or obtaining incorrect information?

You can see, via Google Drive the operating instructions; this includes "Registering the external HDD (USB HDD)" pages 55, 56

 

[Michael5of9]

Presumably the registration process is unable to find any service tracks on the drive to write the hidden registration info to, or it (and DiskGenius) is unable to read the Volume GUID number of the SanDisk, or the GUID really is all zeroes which the registration process outright rejects.

That is a very good observation and I would say that you are correct, we are one step closer to resolving this issue, thank you

 

[Michael5of9]

Update; I took this up with SanDisk, in short; The Volume GUID of the SanDisk, it is all zeroes which the registration process presumably outright rejects?

SanDisk replied “I understand you wish to alter the Volume GUID, GUID is a globally unique identifier (GUID) that identifies the volume and altering it has to be done by the operating system which is completely out of our field of expertise I am afraid. I was able to find (after some online research and with colleagues) a few instructions on how to name a volume but I can't guarantee they will work. Please find the steps below but follow at your own discretion:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/naming-a-volume”

I replied back to SanDisk “I have studied several areas of naming a volume from that Microsoft link that you kindly forwarded me; there isn’t a set way provided to achieve this.

I am unable to know how to best or take the correct way forward to alter this?

I would like to take you up on your offer to return this SanDisk Drive for a replacement, then I would plug the replacement straight into the Panasonic recorder and not the computer to register the drive, I think this is my best way forward.” end of quote.

SanDisk were most understanding about this issue and upon receiving the replacement I plugged it into the Panasonic Recorder, with trepidation, it is detected as the previous SanDisk and the same response/notification saying “that the USB size has to be between 160 GB and a 1 terabit” which it is, it has free space of 232GB, this is a direct link to the SanDisk-Properties
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12hn5FF0sm5kyiii8oAzOVqBPMsN5BHU9/view?usp=sharing

I plugged it into the PC after starting Disk Genius to see the information on the SanDisk drive to see if further help can be obtained.

Direct links to; DiskGenius to SanDisk analyzed area RD1USBSanDisk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mUTCxnL-Mg5roPhX2Jiv8-cheT4CpXCr/view?usp=sharing

DiskGenius to SanDisk analyzed area Removable Disk F
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Oe2B0hURhzRAmOVApWgywOE8K_aoakzv/view?usp=sharing

My observations as a layman; No Volume GUID is listed.

Direct link to Buffalo External Hard Drive, yes this drive would register to the Panasonic recorder
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gtn0JFu2oyYKNM1bxVAtObsAPEc7mo4Z/view?usp=sharing

 

[Ralston18]

The issue still being to discover the GUID - correct?

Try a Powershell cmdlet.

Specifically:

Get-Volume | Select-Object -Property DriveLetter, FileSystemLabel, UniqueId

You can easily find Powershell links with instructions or cmdlets that can be used for learning more about system disks.

And editing is possible. E.g..

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ume-guid/521fd6d7-1814-414d-9229-75c09eb060dd

However, the results of such attempts and actions may end badly.

 

[evermorex76]

Get-Volume | Select-Object -Property DriveLetter, FileSystemLabel, UniqueId

This reports the GUID of the partitions under GPT. The issue OP is having is that the hardware GUID of the flash drive itself (like the MAC address of a network card) is all zeroes. Just deleting and recreating a partition would change its GUID but won't affect the hardware UID. I never knew until now that storage devices even had a hardware GUID or that software or hardware like this DVD recorder or Unraid used that ID for licensing. The solution appears to be "buy different flash drives until you find one that has a GUID", although even there you can't be certain it's a legitimately unique one, though the big name brands probably can be relied on there. Like a NIC's MAC, the GUID is burned into the firmware or hardware and is not likely to have any ability to be changed after production.

Microsoft's USBView tool is said to be able to show the GUID, but you have to build that with the SDK. USBTreeView and USBDevView do show a serial number for my old Sandisk flash drive, which looks like a 20-character hex string (only 1 letter). So you could buy other drives and check them until you find one that is valid.

 

[Ralston18]

Interesting.

The cmdlet results on my system:

PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> Get-Volume | Select-Object -Property DriveLetter, FileSystemLabel, UniqueId

DriveLetter FileSystemLabel UniqueId
----------- --------------- --------
DELLSUPPORT \\?\Volume{0851a1c8-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-5af28ec01e96}\
ESP \\?\Volume{0aa481a3-24cf5e6eda0d}\
Image \\?\Volume{277d594d-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-d187dbf4a71a}\
T Terabyte_SSD \\?\Volume{2a422db5-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-849e455bbe7c}\
E \\?\Volume{2aeda70a-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-806e6f6e6963}\
C OS \\?\Volume{76f992e1-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-b13b06255fb1}\
WINRETOOLS \\?\Volume{7df7d5fa-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-62744a24edf6}\
D Dell Data \\?\Volume{b0abad29-XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ-8e51c3441a5d}\

Where "XXXX-YYYY-ZZZZ" are values that I have redacted for posting purposes.

"T" is an external, USB connected SSD in an ORICO case.

When I connected a Sandisk Cruzer 8GB USB flash/thumb drive the following line was added:

F \\?\Volume{88b6f987-xxxx-yyyy-zzzz-7440bbd52dbe}\

Need to do a bit more experimenting with some old flash drives - most are indexed and filed away. Expendable data etc.. Death dumpster stuff.

In the meantime perhaps others will do some checks on various flash drives via tools and/or Powershell.

And post accordingly.


= = = =

For the most part, I would not expect that drive GUID's can readily be changed or edited - just as a matter of security.....

Will defer on that to those more knowledgeable about such things.

 

[evermorex76]

The cmdlet results on my system:

Notice that those apply to partitions, both with and without drive letters. If you have multiple partitions on a single drive, you'll get multiple GUIDs. You aren't seeing the hardware GUID.

The only reason I can think of to change a partition's GUID is if you somehow managed to plug a drive in that had a duplicate GUID on a partition as an existing one (out of the 2.6^49 of possible GUIDs that could be generated when a partition is created). A bit for bit clone might cause that, but I think most backup/clone software generates a new GUID for the new drive. This could cause problems with things like drive letter assignments or what little else addresses partitions by ID. Partition GUIDs in GPT are technically only locally unique, since there's no way for it to verify that no other system in the world has used it. The odds of a system randomly generating the same ID as any other system are simply astronomically low. If you plugged in a drive with a duplicate partition GUID the best solution would be just copying the data elsewhere and recreating the partition so it has a new GUID, but the possible problems from changing the ID manually are limited.

A hardware GUID could be truly unique in the same way that MAC addresses are supposed to be, with each vendor being assigned a block and keeping a record of them, but I don't think that's how it works as there's no central system for it. They just rely on the same low probability that formatting software does to randomly generate them

 

[Michael5of9]

The issue still being to discover the GUID - correct?

I don't know; asking Window to assign one could be a mistake, seeing the results of the previous SanDisk drive.

Thank you for the weblink, I explored that one and the one within a while back.

I have a response from Panasonic quote “We would like to follow up with you regarding the drive " USB SanDisk Version: 3.2Gen 1. Max Transmission Rate: 5 GB/s " if it can be registered on the unit DMR-EX97.

After checking the compatibility of both units, we would like to update you with the following:

The transmission speed of this drive doesn't match the nature of this drive as an HDD drive, as this speed is more related to an SSD drive.

If this unit is an SSD drive, we cannot guarantee the functionality of the drive with the player.

We recommend using an HDD with its own power supply.

If the drive is an SSD drive, it may affect the registration on the unit.
If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us. Kind Regards,”

I have come across mixed opinions regarding the need for a power supply.
I wonder about transmission speed?
I would welcome opinions on this.

 

[Ralston18]

If a host system is unable to provide the necessary power for connected drives then there will be problems.

Especially if those drives are USB connected and powered. In that case, using an independently powered USB hub would be advisable.

Try using an independently powered hub. Just as a matter of elimination.

That is a matter separate from the GUID issues.

 

[evermorex76]

I have come across mixed opinions regarding the need for a power supply.
I wonder about transmission speed?
I would welcome opinions on this.

The response from Panasonic is a bunch of gibberish, total nonsense, just a generated response from their select-a-problem book that doesn't even address the issue you're asking about. Just one of their agents looking through their scripts to find a response so they can mark the ticket as "action taken" for their performance metrics. It's a FLASH DRIVE, not an HDD or even an SSD, so it takes virtually no power, well within what an in-spec USB port provides, and if the Panasonic even recognizes that it's there, it's providing enough power. (Their manual doesn't specify anything about using an HDD with external power, and your Buffalo obviously works, so again, it's detected so it has enough power.) And of course the recorder is their own product, so they ought to be aware of how much power it provides on the USB port and they claim to have looked up information about the flash drive, so they should know what's possible.

As far as the speeds, again, irrelevant when you can't even get it to register the device to try to use it (and it's not testing speeds before letting you do it), and they seem to be claiming that this basic flash drive is comparable to an SSD in speed, which is ridiculous, and that this would actually be WORSE somehow than having an HDD's performance, which is even dumber. Any lower-end USB flash drive is almost certain to have lower throughput in general than an external HDD, so do keep that in mind. The USB port on the recorder is also only USB 2.0, which means it's going to max out at only HALF the speed of even a 5400RPM external drive. A high-end flash drive (not a stick SSD) might actually be able to max out that port in writes as well, and could easily max it out in reads.

You've now gotten two responses from Panasonic that have nothing to do with the question you're asking. It was worth trying once, but it's not worth wasting more of your time because you're not going to get past the level-1 agents to anyone who knows how to do anything that requires thinking for themselves.

Since you have Disk Genius, select the Sandisk DRIVE itself, not the F drive, and see what the properties are for the serial number. I just formatted my USB stick and it shows the NTFS partition's GUID as all zeroes as well. I'm pretty sure this is normal and again completely irrelevant to your problem. Weirdly, when I formatted with FAT32, it got a GUID.

Another thing to look at is the partitioning scheme. When you select the Sandisk drive, does it show the Partition Table Style as GPT or MBR? Compare that to the Buffalo. Maybe the Sandisk is for some reason set to GPT and the Panasonic just can't work with that? That may be why they specify a limit of 1TB, although that could just be due to not having tested with drives larger than that so they don't want to claim compatibility. You can use tools like AOMEI Partition Assistant to change the partition table style easily, or do it on the command line using diskpart (which requires wiping the drive).

 

[Ralston18]

Also consider using Microsoft's Powershell in lieu of third party tools and utilities.

Easy to google and find explanations and tutorials.

Microsoft provides a number of learning tutorials with explanations, cmdlets that can be copied and pasted for direct use. Even some scripts.

There are third party tutorials as well.

For example:

https://woshub.com/disks-partitions-management-powershell/

Just using "Get-" cmdlets can provide a great deal of information.

Then use that information to make changes, create partitions, and so forth.

Use scripts for more involved configuration changes.

As always, no matter what you are trying to do or change via whatever method or process, be sure that all important data is backed up.

That should be normal routine - all the more so when changing drive configurations....

 

[Michael5of9]

Since you have Disk Genius, select the Sandisk DRIVE itself, not the F drive, and see what the properties are for the serial number. I just formatted my USB stick and it shows the NTFS partition's GUID as all zeroes as well. I'm pretty sure this is normal and again completely irrelevant to your problem. Weirdly, when I formatted with FAT32, it got a GUID.

Another thing to look at is the partitioning scheme. When you select the Sandisk drive, does it show the Partition Table Style as GPT or MBR? Compare that to the Buffalo.

This is the direct link to; DiskGenius to RD1 USB SanDisk giving information, the Partition Table Style is MBR, please note, no specific properties command available?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mUTCxnL-Mg5roPhX2Jiv8-cheT4CpXCr/view?usp=sharing

This is the direct link to; DiskGenius to HD1 Buffalo HD giving information, the Partition Table Style is also MBR.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dD5Qmj-4fOpsMfz5dtfx8CBnxFiyXpWZ/view?usp=sharing

Please note; the MBR signature is all zero’s on the SanDisk drive and just below in the Attributes column is Removable Disk whereas the Attributes column is Online on the Buffalo drive.

I have taken screen shots of the Sector Editor to see if anything can be learnt;

This is the direct link to; DiskGenius to HD1 Buffalo HD https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UYWqY35BrImZj9BdqkLgc87hd1SpHs2n/view?usp=sharing

This is the direct link to; DiskGenius to RD1 USB SanDisk https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ru86oktJAKVtw7SUsFp095clw4-dfF_b/view?usp=sharing

 

[evermorex76]

The FAT32 (ZIP) format indicated in DiskGenius is a special formatting feature of DiskGenius itself, which makes it a bootable DOS drive, but it's obvious that the device is just in its original state from the factory since it still has the SanDisk software on it, so it seems like something is wrong there. A quick search and Google's overview says that an MBR signature of all zeros indicates a problem with the MBR structure. Since DiskGenius is also thinking this is a bootable USB drive when it isn't, perhaps this is the root of the problem and due to weird configuration set at the factory. Use diskpart's "clean" command or use DiskGenius to completely erase the drive's formatting and partitioning, then create a new NTFS partition on it and see if it works then. (DiskGenius also has a "rebuild master boot record" option, but you don't need the data on the disk so just start fresh.)

 

[fzabkar]

I'm wondering whether the DVR expects to see a physical HDD behind a USB SATA/PATA bridge.

A USB mass storage device reports its capacity in response to a SCSI READ CAPACITY command whereas a SATA/PATA HDD can also respond to an ATA Identify Device command (via pass through). The clue is that Panasonic is specifying capacities which are typically associated with HDDs rather than flash drives.

the USB size has to be between 160 GB and a 1 terabit (terabyte, sic)

Do other flash drives behave the same way, or is it just the SanDisk?

 

[fzabkar]

• For recorded titles Moving titles in the built-in HDD to a USB HDD to save the capacity of the built-in HDD. • The USB HDD must first be registered on this unit. ( 55) • The USB HDD over 3 TB is not usable.

• For data files Playing back MP4, JPEG, MP3, etc. in a USB device with this unit. • The USB device must be formatted in FAT12, FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS file system. • The USB device over 2 TB is not usable

The user manual makes a distinction between USB HDDs and USB "devices". It seems to be saying that you can't write to a "device", only to an "HDD".

 

[evermorex76]

The user manual makes a distinction between USB HDDs and USB "devices". It seems to be saying that you can't write to a "device", only to an "HDD".

If they're really making such a distinction, then they are just artificially limiting the functionality for some bizarre reason that only makes sense to a corporate person and they probably think it somehow helps to prevent piracy. It's probably something the content providers insisted the government make a requirement to permit archiving Freeview content. Maybe because a "hard drive" is physically bigger and less portable? Or slower, so it's not as easy to transfer mass amounts of content? (Do they think pirates are storing their petabytes of torrented files on hundreds of little flash drives?) I wonder if a USB SSD would work. Or even a different flash drive, like a SanDisk Extreme which appears as a "portable SSD" and apparently is technically SATA even though it only performs like a good flash drive.

Of course, their support ought to have mentioned this distinction as the first response when OP asked them about the problem.

 

[Michael5of9]

use DiskGenius to completely erase the drive's formatting and partitioning, then create a new NTFS partition on it and see if it works then. (DiskGenius also has a "rebuild master boot record" option, but you don't need the data on the disk so just start fresh.)

I think it is worth mentioning; before using Disk Genius, I copied the SanDisk disk information and pasted into a Word Document for reference, then a screenshot showing the Analyzed Area before Erased Sectors, because I didn’t know the extent of the drive wipe/erased sectors would be undertaken.

Screenshot showing drive after Erased Sectors, note No partition, direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ugYSdIjreW2K1-OxHqYFIWVqdMBVJTuZ/view?usp=sharing

Screenshot showing after Wipe create New Partition direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uWdenNBaYYWzsygPWzN8aJ95nkI9MyNV/view?usp=sharing

RD1 USB SanDisk Drive after New Partition and Formatting, direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-SDyFU9yqADgVQiH6qoZYuTYg8KeYcBG/view?usp=sharing Please note; the MBR signature, it is not all zero’s now!

SanDisk Drive F (partition) after Formating direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/11F32ZMqFmelissrgYOuioagOvdCrdmXr/view?usp=sharing

Link to wiping the drive using Disk Genius via YouTube

View: https://youtu.be/uUwMNUZa_Xk?si=xBOM3DwFv9uNeT9Q


The Volume GUID of the SanDisk, it is still all zeroes which the registration process presumably outright rejects?

I wonder if Disk Genius uses a different name than Volume GUID?

Is it possible to get Windows (PC) to recognise my SanDisk icon instead of Windows icon?

SanDisk direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Usstpr9itHEHkz--Gd_Tr205ji5B0wmq/view?usp=sharing

Buffalo direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YiRTVTOAsHJINLIj1S6OHaCFo1UifhK6/view?usp=sharing

I have amended the Security on the SanDisk to match Buffalo - Everyone

SanDisk direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ihzsqP4moem__1Sr9eJ0E4p89x912WIt/view?usp=sharing

Buffalo direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/17zEZSgA2uGkCz3bEgeo9ZQpjFdHi2U-q/view?usp=sharing

 

[evermorex76]

It seems like you're probably wasting your time with this, as @fzabkar's information indicates. The drive is just unlikely to work with the DVR. As far as icons, that appears to be the same issue, a "removable drive" versus an "external HDD", which Windows uses different icons for. Permissions in Windows are irrelevant.