How Trump's Trade War Could Break Your PC Budget and Stifle Innovation

Status
Not open for further replies.

redgarl

Distinguished
The problem is all the chips are american. China cannot build graphic card without GPUs or laptops without CPUs. If they tax them and sell their product back to the US, like Apple for example, then it is going to be a nightmare. If Trump is not imposing any kind of tax on Taiwanese products, then the PC market can mitigate IMHO, however, kiss your iphone goodbye, Apple is screwed big time.
 
It's about time a POTUS started straightening out the horrid trade deals that politicians put in place over the decades.

There isn't much choice, the other countries have it good, milking the U.S. and don't care to change it. Trump is just forcing them to the table. Since we have a trade deficit with China, they have more to lose than we do.

Tariffs wont last long, just playing hardball.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator

Many of the patents may be held by USA companies but most of Intel, UMC, TSMC, GloFo, etc.'s chip foundries are elsewhere and many of them pass through China at some point during manufacturing/assembly/packaging before going back to the USA for sale.

A Trump tax on electronics that have passed through China will screw up most manufacturers and vendors in the USA.
 

Aspiring techie

Reputable
Mar 24, 2015
816
5
5,365
118
While I'm a big Trump supporter and approve of most of his decisions, this one I don't like. You don't make a country richer by taxing its citizens and stifling trade.

Now, if he uses this as leverage to crack down on China's intellectual theft, then I can stand by it, but ONLY if he does that, and quickly.
 
Jul 4, 2018
15
0
20
1
This is exactly the situation we in the Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) and hardware communities have been warning about. It's not the first time, either, this has happened, but in a time when so much of the everyday social infrastructure relies on imported hardware technology it's very alarming.

If you are interested in helping America get out of this harmful relationship, check out the P2P Foundation wiki for interesting data behind why open hardware architecture and local manufacturing of technology is important:

http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Hardware

Open hardware would allow America to invent new business models. For example developing countries could build advanced telephone systems for cost price. This is far better than buying technology from a first-world profit-oriented business that must charge a 70% mark up to cover their overheads. This is the business model behind the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project. A $100 laptop is possible if you remove the overheads, use community input and sponsership for R&D and build volume. A $100 IP-PBX is also possible. Another benefit is that the hardware can be built locally (remember the hardware design is free) overcoming import tariff problems and building local industry. Combining these elements means lots of people getting connected cheaply. And that is a very good thing for the world. [1]

[1] http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Open_Hardware
 
Now if RAM, video card, and hard drive prices ever get fixed it shouldn't add anything. Ram is currently double what it should be because? Video cards are all over 12 months old without a price cut not counting the mining. The 4TB capacity is 8 years old and still over $100. Seems once China controls the product they start price fixing.

On the Iphone Foxconn maybe should speed up and alter plans on their plant in Wisconsin.
 
Jul 6, 2018
3
0
10
0
"Regular Ebb and Flow to costs (like DRAM)."??? Aren't DRAM manufactures in hot water over Price fixing on DRAM which has led to the dramatic rise in Memory sticks. I would not call price fixing apart of the Regular Ebb and Flow to costs.
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


Serious? This is going to affect the US economy far more than it's going to affect international economies. Several major name manufacturers have already threatened to pull manufacturing and cut jobs if this doesn't get resolved and it could change the landscape of the US economy as we know it, and it's not going to be for the better.

"Regular Ebb and Flow to costs (like DRAM)."??? Aren't DRAM manufactures in hot water over Price fixing on DRAM which has led to the dramatic rise in Memory sticks. I would not call price fixing apart of the Regular Ebb and Flow to costs.
No, DRAM prices have been affected by a huge market shortage, not by price fixing. Cell phone manufacturers (specifically Apple) are currently the culprit in this as the Galaxy S9 and iPhone X use the same B-Die that is used to make DDR4 modules. Apple buys a very sizable percentage of the world's supply of NAND in the months leading up to the latest iPhone launch, so if you're looking for someone to blame for the shortage, blame them.
 

hgchuong

Prominent
Oct 19, 2017
10
0
510
0
I'm so sick and tired of ignorant people claiming that other contries are milking the U.S.

At what time did someone hold a gun to any american corporation and say they need to move their workforce out of the country?

You want to see the real problem of that kind of job loss, go look in mirror.
 
Jul 6, 2018
3
0
10
0
How active are you on this site? Because even this site has brought up the topic of DRAM manufactures being accused of price fixing, which they have done before in the past and were held accountable. This has been a pretty hot topic recently so I am not sure how you can dismiss it so easily.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-micron-samsung-dram-shortage,37119.html

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/samsung-hynix-micron-sued-for-dram-price-fixing-that-could-have-raised-pc-prices/

"No, DRAM prices have been affected by a huge market shortage, not by price fixing. Cell phone manufacturers (specifically Apple) are currently the culprit in this as the Galaxy S9 and iPhone X use the same B-Die that is used to make DDR4 modules. Apple buys a very sizable percentage of the world's supply of NAND in the months leading up to the latest iPhone launch, so if you're looking for someone to blame for the shortage, blame them."
 

stdragon

Commendable
Apr 5, 2018
1,551
1
1,660
196


Then you're sick of being WRONG!

For one, the US economy has effectively been subsidizing European social programs via NATO and the US footing the bill for military support. Dude, that ain't cheap, not by a long shot! Be nice if our vets got the care they need, and our healthcare was more affordable. Not when we're either subsidizing the support of others, both allies abroad and illegals crossing into our states.

Trump isn't causing a Trade War - he's responding to one that's been at our doorsteps for decades! The globalist will scream that their leverage being trashed. This isn't an assault; it's a correction!

With regards to remittances, the US had a net drain of over 130 BILLION flowing out of the US an into other nations.

http://www.pewglobal.org/interactives/remittance-map/
 

stdragon

Commendable
Apr 5, 2018
1,551
1
1,660
196


Don't be so sure of that. The American economy is very robust compared to the rest of Europe and Asia.

The Euro is in big trouble. The EU is barely hanging on as an organization as it is. Lots of internal conflict.

China's MO is to keep its citizens happy and, more importantly, sedated and controlled. They will never admit it, but their government is exceedingly vulnerable (and rightfully so) to disruptive forces within their own economy. When there's enough outcry, it's been proven that their economic policies will pivot accordingly.

Right now, it's a game of "chicken" as to who will move first. The US has been forced into playing this game. If we crash, we're still in a better position to rebuild. Hopefully it never comes to that.
 

Realist9

Reputable
May 31, 2014
97
0
4,630
0
I love how the author of the article labels this "Trumps' Trade War" when it is the result of horrendous decisions of past presidents for many years past. The US has been getting bent over for so long due to past bad decisions that it's way overdue to be corrected.

Seeing political bias on a tech website makes me sick. Please make an effort to tell the whole story next time, not just your slanted version.
 

johnnycanadian

Honorable
May 6, 2012
15
0
10,510
0
re: STDRAGON

"With regards to remittances, the US had a net drain of over 130 BILLION flowing out of the US an into other nations.

http://www.pewglobal.org/interactives/remittance-map/"

You do, of course, realize that "remittances" are monies sent from private individuals to other private individuals, usually via wire transfer. Presumably these monies are post-tax so the US has already realized a benefit from the earnings. These remittances have absolutely zero to do with foreign trade. If anything they keep Western Union in business.

If the income has not been taxed then blame the corporations who hire without submitting source deductions to your IRS.

I will concede that moving the funds out of the United States interrupts the domestic economic ecosystem where funds are taxed / levied at every transaction, but in the grand scheme of things it's the original income tax remittance that has the most significant impact on your economy. I'd worry about Mr. "Drain the Swamp"s $1T USD deficit before a net loss of a few billion dollars that won't be spent by US residents (temporary or otherwise).
 

NinjaNerd56

Honorable
Apr 6, 2013
58
0
10,630
0
The whole story?

This just in...Trump is still a racist moron and traitor who thinks grabbing the world’s pussy is some kind of brilliant strategy.

Regardless of the Nazis at Fox and their constant stream of propaganda, Trump has failed to actually do ONE POSITIVE THING since taking office.
 

jimmysmitty

Champion
Moderator


What do you mean? Intel currently has 5 14nm FABs 3 in Hillsboro Oregon, one in Chandler AZ and one in Leixlip Ireland. They have other process nodes in other facilities such as FAB 42 in Chandler as well bu it is 7nm and a 65nm in Chandler as well. The only two outside of the US and Ireland are in Israel (22/10nm) and one in China but that's a 3DNAND/3DXPoint FAB not CPU FAB.

Since Intel is still on 14nm for the foreseeable future (unless they are planning to ramp up 7nm out of the blue) they can easily produce any US needed chips in the US then push them to a non Chinese assembly site such as Costa Rica (which is what all my chips have ever said) or even in Chandler as there is a assembly/test site there as well.

Not as sure about GloFlo although most of their FABs are outside of China but their assembly might not be. Same with TSMC.

While I wouldn't want a price increase I can see why he is doing what he is doing. It hasn't been an exact fair trade but I guess we will see what happens. I doubt China will continue the war. it is not in their best interest.
 

stdragon

Commendable
Apr 5, 2018
1,551
1
1,660
196
I know exactly what remittances are. They occur when H1B, H2B, and illegals wire money overseas. So while the produce for Wall Street, little of it falls back onto Main Street. Sure, the national economy benefits from their contribution to the overall GDP of the US, but after benefits, for many of of them it's a net drain on the local economy for which they reside in.

Democrats want to talk about Trickle Up
Republicans want to talk about Trickle Down.

Trump is the only one talking about the real elephant in the room - a Trickle Out. The US has been hemorrhaging wealth overseas for so long it's eviscerated the Middle Class. The stratification in wealth and inequality is proof of that.
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


Yeah you're right. It's probably more a combination of the two things - price fixing and shortage - that is leading to increased prices around the world.

Don't be so sure of that. The American economy is very robust compared to the rest of Europe and Asia.
For now it is. We won't feel the effects of these tariffs for quite some time. Economic crashes, recessions, and depressions don't happen until they happen, but we can definitely see the warning signs if we look hard enough for them.
 

g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator


Which past president(s)? Oh wait don't tell me. I probably already know the answer to that. :ange:
 

modusoperandi00

Prominent
Jan 17, 2018
10
0
510
0
Good for him! I, for one, am glad that President Trump is willing to stand up for America and America's hardworking American workers who are, even as we speak, working hard to make Trump-brand suits and ties and Ivanka's dresses and bags!
 

stdragon

Commendable
Apr 5, 2018
1,551
1
1,660
196


Obama, Bush, and Clinton for starters.

I never cared for Clinton, and never voted for him. But, the mid to late 90s were the best of times economically. GWB on the other hand, biggest spender in recent memory. He was no "Reagan"

Trump is a %wild% variable. A roll of the dice. People laugh and get angry, but he could very well be on the path to win a second term. It's all about back-pocket polices. Meaning, how much money to YOU keep to keep? I'm curious to know how the readers will feel about him should be go on a trust busting rampage? He's hinted at doing just that.
 

jimmysmitty

Champion
Moderator


I would say all of them. To be fair to Trump he isn't a career politician and is a businessman first so he would see these kinds of issues politicians wouldn't, especially when these politicians seem to become very wealthy. Hell I looked at the wealth of congress and its astounding how wealthy a lot of these people are. Even ones who made a career out of it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS