How Trump's Trade War Could Break Your PC Budget and Stifle Innovation

[therickmu25]

World is going to end scenario 100 perpetrated by the media that never comes to fruition and actually has the complete opposite effect that ends up helping US citizens.

 

[g-unit1111]

Good for him! I, for one, am glad that President Trump is willing to stand up for America and America's hardworking American workers who are, even as we speak, working hard to make Trump-brand suits and ties and Ivanka's dresses and bags!

Um...........

 

[g-unit1111]

Obama, Bush, and Clinton for starters.

I never cared for Clinton, and never voted for him. But, the mid to late 90s were the best of times economically. GWB on the other hand, biggest spender in recent memory. He was no "Reagan"

Trump is a %wild% variable. A roll of the dice. People laugh and get angry, but he could very well be on the path to win a second term. It's all about back-pocket polices. Meaning, how much money to YOU keep to keep? I'm curious to know how the readers will feel about him should be go on a trust busting rampage? He's hinted at doing just that.

They were the best of times *BECAUSE* we had democratic leadership who knew the jobs that they were doing and used systems of checks and balances that kept businesses under control and kept the people who had the highest concentration of wealth in check. It's also why the economy flourished under Obama because we implemented systems of checks and balances like Glass-Steagall that kept banks from gambling with our money and kept prices low. These people who we have in charge now are responsible for destroying all of this. They are the most incompetent administration we've ever had, and people are abusing their positions of power, which will lead to a crash, or a rescession, or a depression. Trump wants to take all of our safety nets, checks and balances, and ethics that have been built over the course of the last 200 years and burn that down and that's a good thing because?

 

[valeman2012]

The problem is all the chips are american. China cannot build graphic card without GPUs or laptops without CPUs. If they tax them and sell their product back to the US, like Apple for example, then it is going to be a nightmare.

Many of the patents may be held by USA companies but most of Intel, UMC, TSMC, GloFo, etc.'s chip foundries are elsewhere and many of them pass through China at some point during manufacturing/assembly/packaging before going back to the USA for sale.

A Trump tax on electronics that have passed through China will screw up most manufacturers and vendors in the USA.

You can blame the Trump Supporters for making him President too.. This what the Trump Supporters get even if they don`t approve these decision.

As 2020 hits, you guys better vote for Non-Trump...cause he does he say.

 

[jpishgar]

I'm super-pumped that the discussion has remained civil so far, with great points from many different perspectives!
This is just a friendly reminder from your local neighborhood Community Director to keep up the good discussion practices in this thread. No ad hominem (personal attacks) against each other, avoid logical fallacies, and keep on topic!

Thanks all for your continued cooperation!

-JP

 

[stdragon]

It's also why the economy flourished under Obama...

Nothing flourished under Obama but misery. It was stagnate. In fact, he was getting up there in the "misery index" rating. Though can't blame him entirely for the 08 crash. But he certainly didn't help...at all. Meaning, the economy didn't recover because of Obama, but rather in-spite of him. He held back America's economic potential.

They are the most incompetent administration we've ever had, and people are abusing their positions of power, which will lead to a crash, or a rescession, or a depression. Trump wants to take all of our safety nets, checks and balances, and ethics that have been built over the course of the last 200 years and burn that down and that's a good thing because?

Yes, burn the status quo to the ground. Have you not seen the national debt? Have you not seen how much it grew under Obama than all other president before him...combined

There's an axiomatic truism - "What cannot go on forever, wont!". Trump needs to take the US in a different direction, ANY direction other than the status quo. Where will we end up? Who know. But absolutely without question, we could not, in fact, can't afford to keep going the direction we are. That much is factual.

 

[valeman2012]

It's also why the economy flourished under Obama...

Nothing flourished under Obama but misery. It was stagnate. In fact, he was getting up there in the "misery index" rating. Though can't blame him entirely for the 08 crash. But he certainly didn't help...at all. Meaning, the economy didn't recover because of Obama, but rather in-spite of him. He held back America's economic potential.

They are the most incompetent administration we've ever had, and people are abusing their positions of power, which will lead to a crash, or a rescession, or a depression. Trump wants to take all of our safety nets, checks and balances, and ethics that have been built over the course of the last 200 years and burn that down and that's a good thing because?

Yes, burn the status quo to the ground. Have you not seen the national debt? Have you not seen how much it grew under Obama than all other president before him...combined

There's an axiomatic truism - "What cannot go on forever, wont!". Trump needs to take the US in a different direction, ANY direction other than the status quo. Where will we end up? Who know. But absolutely without question, we could not, in fact, can't afford to keep going the direction we are. That much is factual.

How else President Obama was voted in for 8 years cause he was able to Control United States...
~ Donald Trump just care about himself does what best for the riches..

 

[stdragon]

How else President Obama was voted in for 8 years cause he was able to Control United States...
~ Donald Trump just care about himself does what best for the riches..

"Hope and Change". Obama as a candidate, his image was manufactured by the media. People bought into it.

With Trump, he created his own image, but time will tell how genuine his message will carry. It's up to the voter to decide.

Personally, I never put faith in any platitudes or slogan by anyone. I guess you could say that despite Trump's many personal failings as a human being, he was the right person at the right time. Or wrong person at the wrong time depending on your POV.

Another axiomatic truism - "The government you get is the government you deserve". That statement is applicable to both the action and in-action of the electorate .

 

[hannibal]

<sarcasm>
Nah this is brilliant move! People stop playing games and start doing work and make USA big again!
</sarcasm>



So this is just a blot to make lasy gamer to do something usefull!

 

[ssdpro]

It's also why the economy flourished under Obama...

Nothing flourished under Obama but misery. It was stagnate. In fact, he was getting up there in the "misery index" rating. Though can't blame him entirely for the 08 crash. But he certainly didn't help...at all. Meaning, the economy didn't recover because of Obama, but rather in-spite of him. He held back America's economic potential.

This is why the strange support falls on the face. There is a fine mix in this thread or reasonable pro-Trump support and agreement and reasonable anti-Trump disagreement. Your pro-Trump anti-Obama argument is just absent facts. The unemployment rate the January Obama took office was 8.1. The January Obama left office it was 4.7. The day Obama took office the stock market (DOW30) was at 7,949.09. The day Obama left office it was at 19,827.25. Main street and wall street got jobs and profits. The trade policies of that day had the economy growing with moderate stability.

There are many policies and decisions to criticize Obama for but economic performance is not once of them. Obama was handed a turd sandwich and turned it around quick and grew. Trump was handed a bustling economy and presided over continued growth.

Sources: http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/national-employment-monthly-update.aspx
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/heres-how-much-the-stock-market-is-still-up-since-donald-trump-took-office.html

 

[Spike_xps720]

This is about fairness. Many of those nations whose goods are being assessed tariffs by the USA have been imposing tariffs on USA imported goods for many, many years.
I will gladly pay more for better product made in USA.

 

[oldschoolbluesplayer]

* * * after building a new system about 6 months ago...then buying a Game only to find out you have to download 80% of it from the slow assed STEAM...I returned when I returned what parts I could and sold the rest on ebay! You can not tell me the Game Companies cant put the whole game on a USB Stick .....And now Graphics Cards cost more then an X-Box or Play Station...No more $1,500 computers for me...

 

[AlistairAB]

The biggest issue is free trade is good for everyone. The U.S. has been trading with many countries, where those countries have higher tariffs than the U.S. tariffs for a long time. Ask an economist and he can explain how actually there is nothing wrong with that, and personally I'd just drop all trade barriers completely and let other countries choose what they want to do.

But I find it rich having other countries accuse the U.S... If they don't want American tariffs, they can lower their own tariffs to resolve the issue, not get their hackles up. That's the big question, is Trump acting this way to pressure them to equalize and lower their tariffs only, and will he compromise if he doesn't get as good as a response as he hopes.

Or is he going to just leave us all with higher tariffs, and not have improved anything except a meaningless trade deficit reduction. People don't understand that a trade deficit is no problem by itself. In order to sell a good into the U.S. you have to trade for an American dollar, which means you are investing into the country. Also a deficit doesn't mean you aren't getting more for your money. Think when you trade, just because you benefit by 30 percent, and they benefit by 70 percent, doesn't mean you aren't improving your own situation.

 

[stdragon]

Your pro-Trump anti-Obama argument is just absent facts. The unemployment rate the January Obama took office was 8.1. The January Obama left office it was 4.7. ...

There are many policies and decisions to criticize Obama for but economic performance is not once of them.

That 4.7 doesn't include those that have stopped looking for work, and those that are under-employed.

http://freebeacon.com/issues/obama-economy-9-9-million-employed-14-6-million-left-labor-force/

Think about it - Student loan debt is at an all time high, the Millennial generation are the oldest that are still living with their parents (because of debt, home ownership is out of reach), and most likely, many will never raise a family of their own.

You can have your own opinions of the matter, but your not entitled to your own "facts". Which brings me up to the dark art of stats, and the quote that best goes with them; "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

[g-unit1111]

Nothing flourished under Obama but misery. It was stagnate. In fact, he was getting up there in the "misery index" rating. Though can't blame him entirely for the 08 crash. But he certainly didn't help...at all. Meaning, the economy didn't recover because of Obama, but rather in-spite of him. He held back America's economic potential.

In what way?

Yes, burn the status quo to the ground. Have you not seen the national debt? Have you not seen how much it grew under Obama than all other president before him...combined

There's an axiomatic truism - "What cannot go on forever, wont!". Trump needs to take the US in a different direction, ANY direction other than the status quo. Where will we end up? Who know. But absolutely without question, we could not, in fact, can't afford to keep going the direction we are. That much is factual.

Are you just blaming Obama for everything? Let's not forget how Bush drove up the debt with two wars that are *STILL* going on, Hurricane Katrina, the 2008 crash, I could go on and on. Obama spent much of his term cleaning up Bush's mess. And now Trump is going to make an even bigger mess. Look we're already getting way too far into GRAPES territory here, if you want to discuss further feel free to PM me.

 

[AlistairAB]

This is about fairness. Many of those nations whose goods are being assessed tariffs by the USA have been imposing tariffs on USA imported goods for many, many years.
I will gladly pay more for better product made in USA.

The problem with trade wars is how do you come to an agreement? Is he following a strategy that actually ends up in a better outcome, an economic one, not a political one based on the fake idea of a trade "imbalance".

Sadly (I'm Canadian), I don't think Trump can bust the Canadian dairy system for example, so if he just puts up tariffs and insists on an outcome that won't happen, that won't benefit anyone. He needs engagement that actually leads to Canada lowering trade barriers. Just raising barriers and demanding things should be more fair is a political move, not an economic one that actually improves anything. Here's hoping he gets a good result, and more countries lower their barriers to U.S. products, and he goes back to lower American tariffs also.

 

[SkyBill40]

As a moderator I'm surprised you've let things go this far and fan their flames to a degree, G-Unit. Politics, despite being involved with the topic at hand, are best left out of discussion given their inflammatory nature and the ire they will invariably draw. Having an expectation that commentary as it involves Trump, Obama, or any combination of the two to remain relatively civil is pretty unrealistic. This might be one of those stories where commentary should be disabled. That's just my opinion so take it as you will, but I know you can see and understand my viewpoint.

 

[Spike_xps720]

Thank you ALISTAIRAB. I agree with you, it is nothing wrong with negotiation.
(I am Polish)

 

[g-unit1111]

As a moderator I'm surprised you've let things go this far and fan their flames to a degree, G-Unit. Politics, despite being involved with the topic at hand, are best left out of discussion given their inflammatory nature and the ire they will invariably draw. Having an expectation that commentary as it involves Trump, Obama, or any combination of the two to remain relatively civil is pretty unrealistic. This might be one of those stories where commentary should be disabled. That's just my opinion so take it as you will, but I know you can see and understand my viewpoint.

Yeah that's exactly why we have this rule in place because these topics can't be kept civil, as has been displayed already. I always figure before it gets out of control it's best to take it privately.

 

[stdragon]

Are you just blaming Obama for everything?

Let's not forget how Bush drove up the debt with two wars that are *STILL* going on, Hurricane Katrina, the 2008 crash, I could go on and on. Obama spent much of his term cleaning up Bush's mess. And now Trump is going to make an even bigger mess. Look we're already getting way too far into GRAPES territory here, if you want to discuss further feel free to PM me.

For everything? Of course not, don't be silly. Like I said, bush was a huge spender, and like you said, those two wars are costly. But lets be honest, The West and Muhammads have always been at war. In regards to American history, the earliest that I'm aware of was when Thomas Jefferson sent the Navy / Marines after them. So, it's not like this is going to end anytime soon. But, it is bankrupting us.

Katrina was not Bush's fault. This was a fiasco at the local level.
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/10/10-facts-about-the-katrina-response-081957

The 2008 crash was rooted in policies created during the Clinton Administration in the 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall that caused the housing crisis.

Look, back on topic. I have no idea what the ultimate aftermath of this going to be for PC hardware enthusiasts. Certainly it can, and might back-fire on corporate America as it replaces aging desktop and server hardware. I regardless of what political fence you sit on (or don't, you might be independent), I think we can all agree that nobody wants to be paying a premium for imports at the expense of our own livelihoods.

 

[AlistairAB]

I just want to add another point. It is never just about tariffs. For example, if Trump wants Canada to get rid of our messed up (my opinion) dairy system in Canada, that's fine. But Trudeau might lose an election if he upset Quebec and eliminated it. Maybe not, but that might be his thinking.

So effectively Trump's goal of getting better trade might require Canadian leadership to lose their own jobs. Why would they agree to that? That is why even if people agreed free trade is the goal (and sadly most don't agree like myself), you have to understand your opponents and why they might not be willing to give way. That's why negotiations happen. Because there is no evidence that Trump is a principled free trader (a rare breed in politics), there is a lot of concern out there.

 

[AlistairAB]

Thank you ALISTAIRAB. I agree with you, it is nothing wrong with negotiation.
(I am Polish)

Thanks for your kind words. I've always thought the weirdest thing about trade arguments is that we believe trade is good between friends your know personally around you. Between people in your city. Between people in your state. Between people in your own country. But suddenly from outside your country and there is a problem? Actually the benefit is exactly the same.

An export or an import by itself is exactly the same. It is already inherently balanced. A dollar for a good. You could just import only, and never export anything, and it would still be of benefit. An import by itself isn't half a trade. Dollars are traded for the goods. I would really like to see a single politician point out the obvious...

 

[g-unit1111]

Look, back on topic. I have no idea what the ultimate aftermath of this going to be for PC hardware enthusiasts. Certainly it can, and might back-fire on corporate America as it replaces aging desktop and server hardware. I regardless of what political fence you sit on (or don't, you might be independent), I think we can all agree that nobody wants to be paying a premium for imports at the expense of our own livelihoods.

Yeah I totally get that. The thing is that this can backfire on a number of different ways - even small, insignificant changes that can affect us in ways we might not be made aware of yet. Whether it leads to increased costs of anything remains to be seen. And nobody wants to pay premiums on anything - whether it's cars, houses, PCs, phones, you name it.

 

[SkyBill40]

I personally think this is just some saber rattling to elicit a response and test the resolve of your opponent. The sword has yet to be even withdrawn from its scabbard far enough to show much of a glint of shiny steel. In the coming days and weeks that could change, but I don't think it's going to go too far as it does more damage to the participants than it is ultimately worth. That's the drawback with global investment and trade. If we were more isolationist as we were back in the 50's-60's, we may be able to sustain such a trade assault. Now? This could have the potential to get ugly. it doesn't help that I saw a report elsewhere earlier in the day that the Chinese military was told to act as though they are at war with us even though nothing formally has been declared as such. That's... unnerving.

 

[DerekA_C]

Time to start mass manufacturing in USA and make every country dependent on USA again instead of USA dependent on every one else. If you think the prices aren't being gouged now then you are ignorant.

Ram, cpu, gpu, and NAND prices have been manipulated massively in the past and currently just CPU, RAM, and NAND are by certain parties and we all know who is guilty. I have been very avid about the Ram and NAND prices and calling total bs on here and a couple other sites about this SHORTAGE it is just like the oil prices. It all comes down to control and power backed the by manipulation of money. Mankind will always have this issue until we learn to collaborate without money to claim the need to live and survive.

Modern day slavery is sold as a career that can be swept out from under your feet. While these mega rich people are paying for others to work for the riches pennies to develop AI and robotics to replace them, the human workforce at a very fast pace.

Only a select few, "for now" will maintain these machines until they develop machines to maintain the machines. A one time cost for faster more efficient workforce that doesn't need to eat, sleep, take breaks, reproduce, take vacations, no injuries and so forth. So where do you all see us as a species in 50 years with the direction we are headed?