Howe long will a mineral oil PC last?

[cryptotooth]

Before I begin, If this post is in the wrong section, please move it if possible.

So, I'm planning on making a mineral oil PC. I already have a place to get the oil and a tank, but am unsure of the lifespan for a machine like this. Let's face it, there's no point in buying parts for a machine that could only last a few weeks or months, but if it will last, I'd buy some decent parts.

I heard that certain oils (I'm using some heavy duty transformer oil) degrade rubber or cause it to swell up over time, so anything like cable insulation souls be sensitive as far as i can tell, but what about components on the motherboard or GPU? Would any rubber/ plastic components eventually fail due to this? My real concern is capacitors and connectors.

I have a motherboard that's designed for the core 2 quad age, so I'll probably use that if I know it's safe to do so.
So is there any guess as to how long a machine like this will last completely submerged? the rear IO ports will be above the oil, as will the power supply.

 

[Lucias OKeefe]

It's not a really common practice outside of crazy enthusiasts and has little benefit besides novelty.

I know one of the Linustechtips guys actually has Mineral Cool PC that I believe is still functioning today after years. They also did a video on a modern day build very recently. Worth checking out for information.

 

[ss202sl]

Here's a group that has been developing this since 2007. They have several kits, and have had theirs last at least 3 years - probably much longer.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/mineral-oil-pc.php

 

[4Ryan6]

How long will the mineral oil itself last in operation before going rank, and possibly stinking up your whole home?

PDF Link to Shell Oil Lubricant Storage, Stability and Estimated Shelf Life

Since oils do have a shelf life even in sealed opaque bottles, what happens when the mineral oil is in a transparent container in contact with light?

Having a high enough bulk volume of mineral oil to be in constant contact with air, even a sealed lid will have trapped air?

The mineral oil is being heated up when the computer is operational, and cooled down when it is not, any time the lid is removed dust in the air gets in?

So if the mineral oil has a shelf life in a sealed bottle how long before it goes rank?

 

[The Original Ralph]

what exactly is the benefit of using mineral oil - i'm asking as i'm trying to understand

i've worked on some projects that entailed cooling systems (not computer systems but heat transfer is heat transfer). We learned quickly that the thicker a solution, and very few oils equal water in viscosity, but the thicker a solution, the slower the heat transfer into that solution, which resulted in higher temps in the item we were trying to cool. In automotive systems, a 50% glycol to H2O solution demonstrates the most efficient or highest heat transfer rate.

so i guess i'm asking, why explore mineral oil - there's a reason the industry focused on water based solutions

just my 02

 

[cryptotooth]

I'm focusing on mineral oil for the simple reason that the entire rig can be submerged, with my cooling design on the back pumping hot oil from the top into a radiator and back into the bottom of the tank. If a properly built rig can last about two years, that's good enough for me. I can get hold of some very expensive transformer oil from my dad working at a local power station. As 4ryan6 said, how long until it goes rank and stinks the living room out? Will it degrade components like plastic connectors or capacitors? As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

 

[4Ryan6]

As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

A 3770K to 4.8ghz at 55c on oil cooling, do you have a link to that?

 

[cryptotooth]

As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

A 3770K to 4.8ghz at 55c on oil cooling, do you have a link to that?

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1663420/mineral-oil-submerged.html
I only assume it was a 3770k because of the date posted and Haswell runs quite hot. It could also have been a 970.

 

[USAFRet]

As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

You seem to be starting with a core 2 quad.
You could just apply that money and time to a better CPU from the beginning.

 

[4Ryan6]

As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

A 3770K to 4.8ghz at 55c on oil cooling, do you have a link to that?

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1663420/mineral-oil-submerged.html
I only assume it was a 3770k because of the date posted and Haswell runs quite hot. It could also have been a 970.

I didn't see a 3770K listed I was curious because they get quite hot, I know because that's what I'm running.

Even though you'll be using heavy duty transformer oil, it's designed to be run in a steel sealed unit with zero possibility of light contact, my concern for you is is the exposed to light and air longevity of the oil?

It seems many avoid this question at all the sites I've researched and very few ever say why they stopped with the oil cooling?

So was it the oil going rank? (Which is no big deal as you can always change it out, as a water cooler I flush and change my coolant about every 6 months)

Part Failure?

What?

I know that's bothering you or you wouldn't have asked this question in the first place?

I know some of the shared problems listed like the oil wicking up the keyboard and mouse wiring and only certain radiators being able to be used to cool the oil, you a need round tubing radiator like the Watercool MO-RA3 which Puget already recommends.

Oil corruption on M/B and other component parts? (Your main concern would be mine as well?)

I do know it is not rubber friendly and most all PC designed water pumps have rubber seals as does the O-ring seals of the fittings, but seal wise, they could be replaced with the same size vinyl O-rings, so that at least is solvable.

The keyboard and mouse wire wicking the oil is caused because the wiring inside the cable is very fine and is reinforced with a fiber type of cording inside the wire that fiber cording is what actually wicks the oil up the wire, it's the same wicking principal as a kerosene lamp.

 

[USAFRet]

It seems many avoid this question at all the sites I've researched and very few ever say why they stopped with the oil cooling?

No direct knowledge, but I would venture a guess that they stopped at upgrade time.

"Yeah, it was fun once, but I need new parts, and I'm not doing all that crap again."

 

[4Ryan6]

As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

You seem to be starting with a core 2 quad.
You could just apply that money and time to a better CPU from the beginning.

I think he is more after the novelty of it than any high performance, he just doesn't want component failure because of the oil itself.

It would make a great conversation piece, but only as long as the oil stays exactly where you want it.

The oil he is considering is amber colored if I am not mistaken, and to me if I was going to do this I would want the oil crystal clear or you loose the aquarium effect.

Anyhoo my best to him, I hope it works out like he wants.

 

[4Ryan6]

The thicker the oil the harder to pump through the cooling radiator, and you definitely want to cool the oil with a radiator or it will just reach a static temperature after long operation and begin working against you as it holds and retains the higher temperature.

So an external radiator cooler of the oil is absolutely imperative not only to the cooling of the computer, but for the longevity of the oil itself.

This is the same principal of an external transmission oil cooler on a car or truck, to keep the transmission oil from getting so hot it discolors and begins to burn, the CPU and other components will heat that oil up and continue heating it as long as the machine is operational until it reaches a point of operation equilibrium.

Overclocking will bring even higher heat if that's a consideration.

 

[USAFRet]

As for the ability of the cooling, someone got a 3770k to around 4.8GHZ with a max temperature of ~55'c.

You seem to be starting with a core 2 quad.
You could just apply that money and time to a better CPU from the beginning.

I think he is more after the novelty of it than any high performance, he just doesn't want component failure because of the oil itself.

It would make a great conversation piece, but only as long as the oil stays exactly where you want it.

The oil he is considering is amber colored if I am not mistaken, and to me if I was going to do this I would want the oil crystal clear or you loose the aquarium effect.

Anyhoo my best to him, I hope it works out like he wants.

Right.
cryptotooth....If you go through with this, please do a full write up on the process. Pics and all that.

 

[4Ryan6]

Right.
cryptotooth....If you go through with this, please do a full write up on the process. Pics and all that.

I totally agree, we have a lot of users that have considered doing this, but no one actually shares their build or what they discovered in the process and it would be nice to have first hand experience shared, with pics of the build.

Cryptotooth, It would be nice to see someone carry their idea on to completion, but if you do, please do it right, and cool the oil.

I understand having an idea and getting negativity of actually doing it, and if I had listened to negativity I wouldn't have the cooling I have today over 2 years in operation, so my very best to you and I hope you carry it through to completion.

 

[cryptotooth]

I'll ask my dad if the oil is transparent. If not, I'll try and find something else that's a bit clearer.
Really, It is mostly for a novelty and I am only using a core2 quad cause what's the point in buying a new board and processor, PSU and RAM to match when I could drop it in the oil and never see it work? Warranty nullified instantly. Using parts I have lying around I'll create a prototype, then get some new parts like an FX 8350 or a 4770k and see how far I can push them. This oil is used to cool 11KV transformers so I highly doubt we'd be pushing it with a PC.
And yes, I'll record and document my experience and design. I agree there's not nearly enough people putting this stuff online. It'd be on youtube with some temperatures, gaming performance etc.
So back to my main question, how long would you expect a machine like this to last? The two years mentioned above is long enough, but with good quality parts I'd expect around three to four with proper maintenance and cooling.

 

[USAFRet]

My main thought with the transformer oil is viscosity. Is it thicker than mineral oil?
In a PC there are potentially many small moving parts. GPU fan, for instance. Submerged in mineral oil, it will spin, just slower than if in air. Would it be slower still in the transformer oil?
Stuff like that needs to be documented.

Similarly, some people have reported micro hotspots, from bubbles in inaccessible places. Under the CPU for instance.
Air moves easily, mineral oil less so. Transformer oil....more or less of an issue?

 

[cryptotooth]

My main thought with the transformer oil is viscosity. Is it thicker than mineral oil?
In a PC there are potentially many small moving parts. GPU fan, for instance. Submerged in mineral oil, it will spin, just slower than if in air. Would it be slower still in the transformer oil?
Stuff like that needs to be documented.

Similarly, some people have reported micro hotspots, from bubbles in inaccessible places. Under the CPU for instance.
Air moves easily, mineral oil less so. Transformer oil....more or less of an issue?

We'll see. I'll do some experimentation, but I can apparently get many types of oil so if it does become an issue, I'll use something else.
I think from what my old man said, it's a bit more viscous than mineral oil, but it can absorb loads of heat and will have a pump circulating the oil through a radiator. My only thought would be that the GPU fans will eventually burn out with the resistance of the oil. The CPU will have a massive 212 evo running passive. I'll add a fan if I need to.

 

[USAFRet]

Good luck. Let us know.

 

[4Ryan6]

So back to my main question, how long would you expect a machine like this to last? The two years mentioned above is long enough, but with good quality parts I'd expect around three to four with proper maintenance and cooling.

You're starting out with a used M/B some of it's TBF (Time Before Failure) has already been used up, so no one can give you an accurate estimate on how long it will last. I suggest you ask those that actually use the mineral oil cooling of how long to expect with new parts, then apply what you learn to a used M/B, it may be Minutes, Hours, Days, Weeks, Months, or Years, no one can honestly answer how long used components will last in a normal situation, much less submerged in oil.

 

[cryptotooth]

So back to my main question, how long would you expect a machine like this to last? The two years mentioned above is long enough, but with good quality parts I'd expect around three to four with proper maintenance and cooling.

You're starting out with a used M/B some of it's TBF (Time Before Failure) has already been used up, so no one can give you an accurate estimate on how long it will last. I suggest you ask those that actually use the mineral oil cooling of how long to expect with new parts, then apply what you learn to a used M/B, it may be Minutes, Hours, Days, Weeks, Months, or Years, no one can honestly answer how long used components will last in a normal situation, much less submerged in oil.

OK. I'll use a brand new 775 motherboard from amazon. It's £30 so not much. As for the processor and RAM they are used, but still, at least if it works for a while I can build another with the oil and tank.
I'll try my best to get the oil, build the tank etc. And keep this thread up-to-date with what I'm doing (If I remember)

 

[USAFRet]

So back to my main question, how long would you expect a machine like this to last? The two years mentioned above is long enough, but with good quality parts I'd expect around three to four with proper maintenance and cooling.

You're starting out with a used M/B some of it's TBF (Time Before Failure) has already been used up, so no one can give you an accurate estimate on how long it will last. I suggest you ask those that actually use the mineral oil cooling of how long to expect with new parts, then apply what you learn to a used M/B, it may be Minutes, Hours, Days, Weeks, Months, or Years, no one can honestly answer how long used components will last in a normal situation, much less submerged in oil.

OK. I'll use a brand new 775 motherboard from amazon. It's £30 so not much. As for the processor and RAM they are used, but still, at least if it works for a while I can build another with the oil and tank.
I'll try my best to get the oil, build the tank etc. And keep this thread up-to-date with what I'm doing (If I remember)

Doesn't have to be in this thread. Just document what you do...problems and successes.
Post it later.