HTPC (Kodi/Steam IHS) - Media Bridge Networking.

[luci5r]

I'm looking for some networking advice.

Currently I have 2 Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 (R7000) Routers in Media Bridge mode.

Router #1 (Home Theater):
Connected to my main (Server) HTPC which runs Kodi and stores all the media files; also runs Steam In-Home Streaming with my entire game library. Several other devices are also connected to this router, including UHD Disc Player, XBOX One X & Denon x6300h receiver.

Router #2 (Bedroom):
Connected to my secondary (Client) HTPC with Kodi & Steam. No media or games are stored on this machine. It is a simple client which streams everything from the main HTPC. Media using Kodi, and games using Steam IHS. A few other devices connect to this, like UHD Disc Player, XBOX One S & Denon x4300h receiver.

This setup has been working flawlessly for a few years now - excellent media & game streaming with no issues.

However, it was all 1080p. Recently I migrated to 4K, by switching to 4K sets in both home theater & bedroom. I started experiencing drop in the streaming performance. So I've decided to upgrade the router to AC3200. Either ASUS or TP-Link, I'm not confirmed yet but one way or another, will be upgrading to at least AC3200.

I can buy 2 AC3200 routers and do exactly as I did before and I'm sure it'll work fine.

The purpose of this thread is to see if there's any other options I may have where I can get away with 1 Router instead of 2. As the last time I did research on this matter was a few years ago - there might be some method or technology I'm not aware of.

Main Goal:
Stream 4K UHD media from Server HTPC to Client HTPC (Kodi).
Stream games at 2160p resolution using Steam IHS.
Stream 4K media on Amazon Prime on my XBOX One S.

This is my current setup:

The idea is to eliminate that 2nd router if possible, saving about $180 - $200.

One thing to note is, all my devices in the bedroom on the 2nd floor have built-in WiFi - XBOX One S, UHD Disc Player & Denon Receiver. The HTPC does not. In theory, a wired connection via Router is only required for the HTPC - however, that is the one where the strong network is required the most for 4K media streaming & 4k game streaming.

Just wondering if someone else in a similar situation tackled this a different way.

PS: The bedroom is on the far end of the house on 2nd floor - I'm not interested in running ethernet wires across the structure for this. Routers are easier and have been working flawlessly w/ 1080p so I'm looking for device-based solution.

Thanks!

 

[failboat]

some of these new mesh systems score pretty well.
what is the max speed you are getting on the 2nd floor?
I'd recommend getting a wire to the 2nd wifi device at least.
It's weak-in weak-out even if you have a strong connection to the 2nd AP.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/charts/wifi-system/view

 

[failboat]

removing and patching drywall isn't all that expensive. It's worth checking on a quote if that's a long term place for more network devices.

 

[luci5r]

some of these new mesh systems score pretty well.
what is the max speed you are getting on the 2nd floor?
I'd recommend getting a wire to the 2nd wifi device at least.
It's weak-in weak-out even if you have a strong connection to the 2nd AP.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/charts/wifi-system/view

Holy Toledo!! I think this might be exactly what I was looking for!! I didn't even know about the WiFi Mesh Systems. I'm actually willing to pay more then the highest, D-Link COVR AC3900 listed in the link you posted, if one exists, for better/higher performance.

Thanks for pointing me into this direction - I'm definitely looking into this.

Thanks.

 

[failboat]

I'm going to take a guess that on that chart it's probably around -30dB. Which is line of sight pretty close.

I don't think you will get those speeds through a floor.

On that site it shows throughput dropoff 0-100dB. It's very significant. Anything better than -30dB isn't going to happen. You have to set your device on top of the router to maybe get that. advertised rates are always near 0dB. In reality you won't get better than -30dB.

 

[luci5r]

After closer inspection of the Mesh Systems, I have some concerns now. The AC3900 on the Mesh is slightly different then, say, two AC3200 routers. As an example, the ASUS RT-AC3200 essentially provides 1300mbps on 2 x 5Ghz bands, for a total of 2600mbps. Whereas the D-Link COVR AC3900 is only providing 1300mbps on the 2 x 5Ghz bands, and about 800mbps on the range extender. Even though I would plugin the client HTPC to the Ethernet port on the range extender, I believe the mbps I'm going to get on the client using the D-Link COVER AC3900 is far less then using 2 x AC3200 routers.

The whole exercise is to get a bump-up from my current 2 x AC1900 routers, which provide 1300mbps on the 5Ghz bands. I don't believe the numbers are adding up to support the mesh system.

I haven't measured the actual speeds I'm getting on the 2nd floor/bedroom machine. I just know it works flawlessly on 1080p resolution, but does have some trouble with 2160p streaming. It's not terrible, but it's not 100% flawless like 1080p, so I do know that I don't require a tremendous/significant bump up, but a marginal one.

 

[RealBeast]

While mesh has its uses, high bandwidth applications are not among them.

In any case if you do end up going that direction, insure that the backhaul uses distinct radios and their own channels to maximize the performance.

SmallNetBuilder has a lot of mesh articles, and most are not favorable. At a minimum, read some of THESE.

 

[failboat]

After closer inspection of the Mesh Systems, I have some concerns now. The AC3900 on the Mesh is slightly different then, say, two AC3200 routers. As an example, the ASUS RT-AC3200 essentially provides 1300mbps on 2 x 5Ghz bands, for a total of 2600mbps. Whereas the D-Link COVR AC3900 is only providing 1300mbps on the 2 x 5Ghz bands, and about 800mbps on the range extender. Even though I would plugin the client HTPC to the Ethernet port on the range extender, I believe the mbps I'm going to get on the client using the D-Link COVER AC3900 is far less then using 2 x AC3200 routers.

The whole exercise is to get a bump-up from my current 2 x AC1900 routers, which provide 1300mbps on the 5Ghz bands. I don't believe the numbers are adding up to support the mesh system.

I haven't measured the actual speeds I'm getting on the 2nd floor/bedroom machine. I just know it works flawlessly on 1080p resolution, but does have some trouble with 2160p streaming. It's not terrible, but it's not 100% flawless like 1080p, so I do know that I don't require a tremendous/significant bump up, but a marginal one.

1080p h264 is around 5-10Mbs. 4k 25-50Mbs.

 

[luci5r]

1080p h264 is around 5-10Mbs. 4k 25-50Mbs.

Right, in terms of media bitrates, that's accurate - but is that all that matters when you're streaming a media file over WiFi from one router/machine to another? What about distance between the routers and obstructions along the way? Also, on my current AC1900 setup, I saw a drop in performance, occasional (not very frequent or prominent) lag with 4K, but none with 1080p.

The lag and performance degradation is much more prominent & visible during 4K gameplay (Steam IHS), which again was super smooth at 1080p. Sp I definitely have some degradation on my hands due to the migration from 1080p to 4K. I'm not exactly sure what are the bitrate & speeds during 4K gameplay, or the requirements for streaming the same.

The one advantage D-Link COVR AC3900 is cost - definitely much cheaper then 2 x $189 ASUS RT-AC3200, and a much simply setup.

Still not sure.

 

[failboat]

Try running some tests. It's likely you're not getting 25Mbs, which is why 4k isn't working well.

networking lag would buffer the video, tcp is like a file transfer, quality won't drop. if you're having visible lag try moving the equipment to the other side and testing it to see if it's still there wired. if it's a udp stream it will look very bad. I'd suggest using plex or another similar service.

 

[nigelivey]

Run an ethernet cable between the floors or purchase powerline adapters!! Take the wireless bridging or repeaters/mesh out of the equation!

 

[luci5r]

Try running some tests. It's likely you're not getting 25Mbs, which is why 4k isn't working well.

networking lag would buffer the video, tcp is like a file transfer, quality won't drop. if you're having visible lag try moving the equipment to the other side and testing it to see if it's still there wired. if it's a udp stream it will look very bad. I'd suggest using plex or another similar service.

So here's what I did, I moved around the equipment a little bit. I also realized that one of the Antenna on the client Netgear Nighthawk was actually not really screwed in, it was sitting loose, barely attached.

I downloaded an application called "LAN Speed Test" and installed it on the bedroom HTPC (Client). I specified a Write & Read test to a folder on the main HTPC (Server), defining 1MB minimum packet size & 500MB maximum packet size and checked 'Vary Packet Sizes'.

I ran the test which essentially gave me a result of 300Mbps Writing Speed & 425Mbps Reading Speed.

Log:

Date:  2018-09-17 14:13:18
Folder or Server IP: \\Mediastrasse\bd0\Users\l3viathan\Downloads\
Packet Size:  1 MB to 500 MB
Packet Size Avg:  286,294,570 Bytes
Packets:  1
Total Test Time: 13.69903 sec
Throughput:  Average
Write:  7.6261 (300,331,541)
Read:  5.3782 (425,859,234)
Write Speed:  300.33 Mbps
Read Speed:  425.86 Mbps
Write Cache:  Enabled
Read Cache:  Disabled
Status:  Finished...

Screens:

I did some media playback testing and I did not see any lag or any issues whatsoever playing 4K HDR media. I streamed a 4K UHD HDR MKV file from server HTPC and it played smoothly, without lag or any interruption. Also streamed a 4K HDR movie on Amazon Prime (XBOX One S) and it seemed to play completely lag/interruption free.

I did not get a chance to test 4K Gaming (Steam IHS), and probably won't till the weekend.

I'm not very clear how to read the above results - if there are any speed/connectivity issues or not. Also, if there is a different application I should use to test, or if I should submit different settings in the above application, please feel free to suggest.

Thanks!